Maybe this will change a mind [W:223, 278,342, 805]

[RamFel]

Re: Maybe this will change a mind

Actually it is quite obvious, you just can't stay out of other people's lives. You have this uncontrollable desire to impose your limited views and religious dogma on others.

But we all do as it is necessary to be on guard against morality fascists and religious zealots less they force their will on society.

You are only exposing yourself and it is an ugly picture.

You are deluding yourself again.

No, you support intrusion in other people's life where you have no business to intrude, a most vile
infringement on freedom.

You wouldn't know it if it fell on you.

I sorry, but I don't respond to people who resort to baiting.

 

[RamFel]

Re: Maybe this will change a mind

No, it's actually nothing more than your ridiculously-narrow opinion. Luckily, nobody is required to share it.

Hey hey, I'm the good guy. Remember? It's you guys that are wrong. I am pro-life. The best thing you can be in this debate. You are pro-abortion. That's very bad. You should be careful who you pick on !

 

[RamFel]

Re: Maybe this will change a mind

Abortion most certainly IS a woman's rights issue, no matter how many times you claim it isn't.

Then I hope you don't mind if I keep saying it.

Abortion has nothing to do with a woman's rights. Nothing at all. Not even close. Not even in the same galaxy.

 

[RamFel]

Re: Maybe this will change a mind

It is a fine opinion to have, but it does not make it so.

See? I told you.

 

[blarg]

Re: Maybe this will change a mind

Hey hey, I'm the good guy. Remember? It's you guys that are wrong. I am pro-life. The best thing you can be in this debate. You are pro-abortion. That's very bad. You should be careful who you pick on !

:funny

 

[RamFel]

Re: Maybe this will change a mind

The entire intent of my post went right over your head.

I was simply responding to Scrabaholic calling out another poster, demanding he give an example of an infant being torn apart. I did just that. I never said it was rampant, frequent, occasional or even rare - I simply pointed out it exists. I went on to say nothing is gained by playing semantic games and parsing language rather than dealing with the content of themes and thoughts.

It's a shame you misread my point entirely and dove right into the normal attack/defense posturing so tiresome in these abortion threads.

Canada. That was me, and I did just as he asked.

 

[AGENT J]

Re: Maybe this will change a mind

It's in the abortion forum because one of the more common justifications for abortion is that the baby isn't human at 24 weeks (or much later than that, according to some). My thought was that this imagery would invoke a little understanding in those who deny prenatal life.

Unfortunately, I was wrong.

Id love to know why this lie is repeated by many people, in my history of DP i've never seen anybody claim a ZEF, baby, preborn, fetus etc is not human. One poster did it and as fast as his screen name was created he disappeared.

also in real life iver never come across anybody that said a 24 week old fetus isnt human . . .not once

could you point us to this "common" stances and show us all these people that share it?

because i agree with you in that aspect, anybody that thinks a 24 week fetus is not to bright and can be proven 100% factually wrong, problem is i've never seen this claim in reality.

 

[AGENT J]

Re: Maybe this will change a mind

As opposed to appealing to the "science" that at 24 weeks gestation a baby is simply a wad of goo?

again, how many people do you know refer to a 24 week old fetus as a wad of goo?
I dont know any . . . . . .

 

[Peter King]

Re: Maybe this will change a mind

Yes, we do care for the unborn, who are alive, and don't deserve the dehumanizing talk that is coming out of your collective mouths. All of you are wrong. It's an amazing to see, the way all of you twist things around to fit what you say you believe. But I don't believe anything you say just because you have this goal that you have and it takes the deaths of millions for you to accomplish it. And since you can't kill everybody you and PP and all those leftist college professors have now convinced some college students and the call is still going out to pass laws allowing the mis-named "Post Birth Abortion" (don't blame me for the name. I will use it until someone comes up with a better one).

Yes, I do expose you. And I will keep doing it. It's like a job to me. It's important. Because people need to know what's really going on (you know, the hidden agenda). Because there has to be a real good reason for the way that you all have been behaving. I see it every day, and it always confirms what I know about your movement.

to be dehumanized you have to be a human being in the first place. And of course we are not wrong.

The goal I have is protecting women's right from people like you. I would love to see unwanted pregnancies prevented at a much higher rate by making sterilizations/tying tubes free of charge, make placing birth control (long time) devices much cheaper, provide better access for birth control (the pill).

You do not prevent abortions by banning abortions but by making sure women do not get pregnant in the first place.

And more post-abortion bull crap, I do not know why you propagate such utter nonsense. You are promoting lies and your attempt to try and make it sound that there is something like post-birth abortion is ludicrous.

 

[Peter King]

Re: Maybe this will change a mind

So you criticize someone for making an appeal to emotion about the baby, make an appeal to emotion about the mother, and in between try to dehumanize the child by calling it a ZEF. Why can you not just acknowledge that a human life is being extinguished regardless of what stage of development it is in instead of *****footing around? Society assigns greater value to some lives over others and that is just how it plays out here.

I am not calling this child a ZEF.

Also I am not criticizing this person for making an appeal about a baby but about his disgusting attempt to use the tragedy of this man to promote his anti-abortion standpoint, that is what is disgusting.

 

[CanadaJohn]

Re: Maybe this will change a mind

From the Illinois Abortion Act of 1975:



720 ILCS 510/  Illinois Abortion Law of 1975..

Relevance? Point?

 

[AGENT J]

Re: Maybe this will change a mind

I do not hate ZEF's, I just hate typing out Zygote, Embryo, Fetus every time I want to write those three words.

And I think, or no, I know that I am a very moderate pro-choice person (because pro-abortion is bull crap because there that IMHO does not exist). And the use of moronic and bigoted is the last resort of someone who is out of facts and reasonable options.

An acronym finder is not crowdsourced but it is indicative of the fact that people use the acronym/abbreviation ZEF for zygote, embryo, fetus.

along with all your links, links to medical papers/journals have also been provided and usage by doctors including a doctor who was editor in chief of a group of papers have been provided also.

It along with many other facts were all ignored in favor of dishonesty, lies and hyperbolic emotional based strawman tactics in an attempt to drive a negative smear campaign. (only 3 posters that i know try this and fail at it each time)

The problem is it never works because to many people including pro-life people are too honest, educated and objective to fall for those lies. No rational, reality based and truthful person ever falls for the mentally retarded lie that ZEF isnt a real acronym commonly used by normal people and in the medical world. Its dishonest desperate spin that falls short and gets mocked and proven wrong ever time.

 

[JayDubya]

Re: Maybe this will change a mind

It's an attempt to divert from the real issues when one does not have a valid rebuttal, IMO.

Pro-aborts consistently using nonsensical bigoted slurs is a large issue; it speaks to irrational hatred and ignorance of science.

to be dehumanized you have to be a human being in the first place.

Yeah, and the human beings you're bigoted against aren't human beings, because you say so, and you even have a special word for them to convey your disdain, just like "rat" or "nigger."

Abortion has nothing to do with a woman's rights. Nothing at all. Not even close. Not even in the same galaxy.

You are correct.

To whatever extent gender issues are involved, promotion of abortion comes from self-hating men and "feminists" that should more accurately call themselves female supremacists.

Abortion is a special privilege to kill another human being in aggression, unlike any other. It is an insane paradox. No one should ever be allowed to kill another human being in aggression.

 

[prometeus]

Re: Maybe this will change a mind

And you have never used the emotional appeal? Don't deny it. So it's OK when you use it, but wrong when we use it, right?

Instead of making stupid and ignorant assumptions or accusations why not stick to the facts?

 

[minnie616]

Re: Maybe this will change a mind

Relevance? Point?

There was already a born alive bill in Illinois that went into effect in 1975 that mandated care for any born alive infant. Obama supported that bill. He did not ( as you claimed) support crushing the heads of born alive infants.

There was no need to pass a another born alive bill

 

[prometeus]

Re: Maybe this will change a mind

Genetically human and human being is exactly the same thing.

Only to the ignorant and uneducated.

You really have to stop listening to lawyers, judges, and the legislature and start listening to your common sense.

You should take your own advice.
The hypocrisy coming from the morality coercers never ends. The greatest proof was when lawyers representing a Catholic organization (hospital if I recall), argued that the fetus was not a person in order to avoid liability for a death.

 

[prometeus]

Re: Maybe this will change a mind

I sorry, but I don't respond to people who resort to baiting.

Yet here you are proving dishonesty. Reality bites eh?

 

[eohrnberger]

Re: Maybe this will change a mind

In an earlier post, you used that "factual information" to make a moral judgement, and now you're pretending that never happened because I've forced you to admit that you support the dismemberment of fetus' too.



Yes, it is rare, yet that didn't stop you from trying to smear pro-choicers because, as you falsely claimed, they "celebrate" the dismemberment of a fetus.

When you stop smearing and distorting what people you disagree with say, let me know.

 

[sangha]

Re: Maybe this will change a mind

When you stop smearing and distorting what people you disagree with say, let me know.

No distortion. I pointed out that a father crying over his suffering child and singing it songs while it died is not a "celebration". You responded with something like "as opposed to dismembering infants in the womb" as if pro-choicers consider that a celebration.

Now that you've been called out on it, you're running away from your own words as fast as you can.

 

[CanadaJohn]

Re: Maybe this will change a mind

There was already a born alive bill in Illinois that went into effect in 1975 that mandated care for any born alive infant. Obama supported that bill. He did not ( as you claimed) support crushing the heads of born alive infants.

There was no need to pass a another born alive bill

As the fact checker I referenced pointed out, Obama said he'd support a state law that mirrored the federal legislation. The second version of the state law mirrored, almost word for word, the federal law and yet Obama voted against it. He lied about his stance on the legislation.

Obama's own words on the issue of late term abortion and the killing of fetuses that survive abortion alive are more relevant to me than you and other's attempts to shield the President from scrutiny.

Extreme: Obama Says He's "Pro-Choice" on Late Term Abortion - Guy Benson

You can deny that in some cases of late term abortions a live fetus results and is killed, sometimes by crushing its skull. You can also deny that President Obama supports unrestricted access to late term abortions. It's your right and prerogative to blindly ignore the man's own words and views on the subject - look foolish if you want.

But I do give you a bit of a pass since President Obama is well know to lie virtually every time he opens his mouth and he is well known to be on every side of every issue depending on which way the poll winds blow, so you can probably point out any number of denials he has issued over the years - similar to any number of other issues.

 

[minnie616]

Re: Maybe this will change a mind

You can deny that in some cases of late term abortions a live fetus results and is killed, sometimes by crushing its skull. You can also deny that President Obama supports unrestricted access to late term abortions. ...

Actually in any late term abortion ( 20 weeks gestation or beyond ) the law requires that the fetus is already dead before an abortion begins.

And yes, Gosnell broke the law and performed abortions on live fetuses past 20 weeks gestation.

 

[CanadaJohn]

Re: Maybe this will change a mind

Actually in any late term abortion ( 20 weeks gestation or beyond ) the fetus is already dead before an abortion begins.

Why would you say such a thing when you of all people know it's a flat out lie.

Besides that, nice dodge.

 

[Zyphlin]

Re: Maybe this will change a mind

Moderator's Warning:

If you want to have a discussion about Obama's abortion views start a new thread. Everyone needs to stick to the topic

 

[minnie616]

Re: Maybe this will change a mind

Why would you say such a thing when you of all people know it's a flat out lie.

Besides that, nice dodge.

The law requires any fetus at or past 20 weeks gestation be given a lethal injection before an abortion begins.

Not a dodge ...just a fact.

I think it is important that accurate information be given.

 

[eohrnberger]

Re: Maybe this will change a mind

No distortion. I pointed out that a father crying over his suffering child and singing it songs while it died is not a "celebration". You responded with something like "as opposed to dismembering infants in the womb" as if pro-choicers consider that a celebration.

Now that you've been called out on it, you're running away from your own words as fast as you can.

A personally difficult moment; a moving and emotionally impactful event and situation; cherishing life, and the sorrow of life that's lost; these are all human empathy in action.

The denigration of this; to treat it as if it were a minimal thing, rather than the powerful human thing that it is, denying this celebration of life,
is this where pro-choice people are coming? It certainly appears to be where you are coming from.

In that sense, yes, it would seem that the pro-choice people are in fact, in the same way, celebrating the death, the aborting of life.