Lack of home schooling oversight obvious danger to children

[nota bene]

Virtually every conservative I know complains of lack to training and/or standards for teachers and none for parents teaching.

"Little research exists on the links between home schooling and child abuse. The few studies conducted in recent years have not shown that home-schooled children are at significantly greater risk of mistreatment than those who attend public, private or charter schools.

But the research also suggests that when abuse does occur in home-school families, it can escalate into especially severe forms — and that some parents exploit lax home education laws to avoid contact with social service agencies.

In 2014, a group of pediatricians published a study of more than two dozen tortured children treated at medical centers in Virginia, Texas, Wisconsin, Utah and Washington. Among the 17 victims old enough to attend school, eight were home-schooled.

After a home-schooling mother killed her autistic teenager, government analysts in Connecticut gathered data from six school districts over three years. Their report, released in 2018 by the state’s Office of the Child Advocate, found that 138 of the 380 students withdrawn from public schools for home education during that period lived in households with at least one prior complaint of suspected abuse or neglect."

Link

Why hide it? Why not regulate home schooling so we can get accurate statistics on home schooling and abuse?

I'm a conservative who has not complained about public school standards for teachers (although I certainly could if these teachers are education majors without a significant focus in, oh, math, or English, etc.). You've offered a 2014 study, meaning that the research was conducted over a decade ago. Much has changed since then. Yes, abuse can escalate--in home-school families, in families with a stepfather or "uncle," and so on. But the WaPo article you cited shares a horrific and tragic story that is extreme and atypical, so it doesn't mean much (particularly if you aren't in Michigan, and I'd say that Michigan needs to up its standards as other states have).

 

[j brown's body]

We have standards for public education and the reality is the system is a miserable failure as measured by those standards. There isn’t a one-size-fits-all solution. To have a standard requires predicating it on the fallacy that all children have equal aptitude.

Such a broad complaint about public education is all but meaningless. Plenty of public schools are terrific.

The irony here is that one of the biggest problem with public schools is not the teachers or the standards but the parents themselves who do not properly prepare their children at home to become educated.

Beyond that, I think you misunderstand the purpose of standards, which do not dictate how a child is taught, but what they are expected to learn.

 

[Superfly]

Not regulating home schooling is insane and very dangerous.

Too many parents see their kids as their private property and can force them to do whatever they want.

Those who call for standards in public education but give home schooling a free ride are hypocrites putting children's safety at risk.

This should be a no-brainer.

You’d think it would be. Of course there are parents who go overboard and self-govern to make sure their kids are moving at a good pace, but still retaining what they learn.

Then you’ll have parents like my neighbor who are lazy, and don’t do anything to help their kids academically. They just don’t want to be bothered with it all.

 

[BirdinHand]

I see nothing wrong with homeschooling, but if it’s going to happen, there need to be rules in place where the kids have to be tested to make sure that each year, they are at the grade level they need to be. You ever hear of a homeschooled kid who failed their grade?

No, me either.

Not regulating home schooling is insane and very dangerous.

Too many parents see their kids as their private property and can force them to do whatever they want.

Those who call for standards in public education but give home schooling a free ride are hypocrites putting children's safety at risk.

This should be a no-brainer.

So what does “oversight” look like?

Who is going to visit these homes and assure kids aren’t being abused? Who is going to administer the testing?

Where are the resources coming from?

You going to add more to the already full plates of public schools and child services? Stretch them thinner so more kids fall through the cracks?

Gosh…because those institutions are doing SUCH a great job at educating every child and keeping every child from being abused or neglected, right? They’re already BEGGING for help and not receiving what they need - so let’s put MORE responsibility on them.


I understand where the sentiment/desire is coming from…but reality is that there is ZERO the government can do to assure that EVERY KID gets an education and no child is abused or neglected.

We are already incredibly short staffed and funded in social services/child protective agencies and our public school teachers are underpaid and under resourced in many places.

You think somewhere like Ohio is going to suddenly decide they REALLY care about kids?

Nope, instead they’re trying to force more kids to be born into families that don’t want kids.

I get where the concern comes from - but the reality is we don’t care about kids OR education in the US. We just don’t.

 

[j brown's body]

I'm a conservative who has not complained about public school standards for teachers (although I certainly could if these teachers are education majors without a significant focus in, oh, math, or English, etc.). You've offered a 2014 study, meaning that the research was conducted over a decade ago. Much has changed since then. Yes, abuse can escalate--in home-school families, in families with a stepfather or "uncle," and so on. But the WaPo article you cited shares a horrific and tragic story that is extreme and atypical, so it doesn't mean much (particularly if you aren't in Michigan, and I'd say that Michigan needs to up its standards as other states have).

Here you are arguing for some regulation of teachers without arguing it for parents, proving my point.

"Much has changed..." what the hell does that mean?

Because home schooling is so unregulated, it is difficult to say how prevelant child abuse is involved in it. It is unconscionable that anyone is okay with this. To use this to argue that child abuse is not an issue due to a lack of data on it is simply dishonest.

"138 of the 380 students withdrawn from public schools for home education during that period lived in households with at least one prior complaint of suspected abuse or neglect."

This should trouble everyone.

 

[Superfly]

We have standards for public education and the reality is the system is a miserable failure as measured by those standards. There isn’t a one-size-fits-all solution. To have a standard requires predicating it on the fallacy that all children have equal aptitude.

I agree with this, for the most part. My girls all learned at a different pace, so I saw it firsthand.

The point I was making, though, is that children have to be able to meet certain milestones by a certain age. Would you be ok with a 9 year old not being able to read a cereal box?

If your child gets to a certain age and they haven’t met certain milestones academically, then either you aren’t teaching them in the manner they should be taught (see: my neighbors) or they have a learning disability that needs to be met. If that happens, you have to modify your teaching plan drastically, or consider that teaching someone with learning disabilities might be over your head, and you have to tender your child to someone more suited than you for the job.

 

[j brown's body]

So what does “oversight” look like?

Who is going to visit these homes and assure kids aren’t being abused? Who is going to administer the testing?

Where are the resources coming from?

You going to add more to the already full plates of public schools and child services? Stretch them thinner so more kids fall through the cracks?

Gosh…because those institutions are doing SUCH a great job at educating every child and keeping every child from being abused or neglected, right? They’re already BEGGING for help and not receiving what they need - so let’s put MORE responsibility on them.


I understand where the sentiment/desire is coming from…but reality is that there is ZERO the government can do to assure that EVERY KID gets an education and no child is abused or neglected.

We are already incredibly short staffed and funded in social services/child protective agencies and our public school teachers are underpaid and under resourced in many places.

You think somewhere like Ohio is going to suddenly decide they REALLY care about kids?

Nope, instead they’re trying to force more kids to be born into families that don’t want kids.

I get where the concern comes from - but the reality is we don’t care about kids OR education in the US. We just don’t.

So let the kids get abused because it's too expensive to monitor home schooling.

This reads like its from someone who doesn't really care much about kids and lives in a dreamworld about family dynamics.

 

[BirdinHand]

This should trouble everyone.

No one is saying that child abuse isn’t troubling.

It is.

But where are these magical resources coming from?

We have people that are opposed to any sort of tax increases and we have broken social services - including underfunding and understaffing - across all social services. From your schools to your health system to your child services systems.

Until we actually put our money where our mouths are - it isn’t fair to add more into the plates of those already juggling huge responsibilities without enough resources.

 

[bomberfox]

Many? How many? What percent?

There should be as few as possible. Thats the point.

 

[BirdinHand]

So let the kids get abused because it's too expensive to monitor home schooling.

This reads like its from someone who doesn't really care much about kids and lives in a dreamworld about family dynamics.

It reads like someone that knows the system is already overburdened and under funded and here you - and others - are arguing to add more onto the plates of the overworked and under compensated.

Because of a suspicion - without any actual proof - that there is a major concern.

Fix the funding and the overburdened and underfunded systems. When THAT is accomplished, then talk about expanding the scope of those systems.

You don’t keep building in a broken foundation. You fix the foundation

 

[bomberfox]

No one is saying that child abuse isn’t troubling.

It is.

But where are these magical resources coming from?

We have people that are opposed to any sort of tax increases and we have broken social services - including underfunding and understaffing - across all social services. From your schools to your health system to your child services systems.

Until we actually put our money where our mouths are - it isn’t fair to add more into the plates of those already juggling huge responsibilities without enough resources.

You can just use many of the CPS resources that we have. I gave the problem with just how unregulated home schools are in ohio that you can literally train your kid on the turner diaries and act like a credentialed teacher as an example.

 

[bomberfox]

Here you are arguing for some regulation of teachers without arguing it for parents, proving my point.

"Much has changed..." what the hell does that mean?

Because home schooling is so unregulated, it is difficult to say how prevelant child abuse is involved in it. It is unconscionable that anyone is okay with this. To use this to argue that child abuse is not an issue due to a lack of data on it is simply dishonest.

"138 of the 380 students withdrawn from public schools for home education during that period lived in households with at least one prior complaint of suspected abuse or neglect."

This should trouble everyone.

Thanks for pulling that up.

 

[Superfly]

So what does “oversight” look like?

Proctored exams. Easy.

Who is going to visit these homes and assure kids aren’t being abused?

No one, anymore than they do with kids in public school. The reason for a visit from CPS usually comes from concern from another parent, or a teacher.

Who is going to administer the testing?

I’m not sure how it is now, because my kids have been out of school for years. I home schooled my oldest daughter once, to catch her up with the rest of the class. Did the same for my middle daughter.

With my first daughter, she was umbrellaed by a private school that taught using a faith-based curriculum. At the time, I didn’t have a problem with it. It was the ABEKA system. She completed little books, about the size of a thin coloring book. As that was completed, it was tendered back to the school. They kept her grades in a ledger, which was monitored by the state of Alabama. My second daughter went through a school called the Ogburn School, out of north Florida. They gave her all the books she needed. She studied, did her homework online, and took exams online.

It was all very civilized, and all monitored by the state, as it should have been.

Where are the resources coming from?

From the tuition paid for the umbrella school.

You going to add more to the already full plates of public schools and child services? Stretch them thinner so more kids fall through the cracks?

Um … no?

Gosh…because those institutions are doing SUCH a great job at educating every child and keeping every child from being abused or neglected, right? They’re already BEGGING for help and not receiving what they need - so let’s put MORE responsibility on them.

Again … no.

I understand where the sentiment/desire is coming from…but reality is that there is ZERO the government can do to assure that EVERY KID gets an education and no child is abused or neglected.

Never said that, but there should be guidelines and restrictions, so kids don’t grow up without a basic education.

I understand where your sentiment and desire is coming from, but what you need to understand is that not all parents homeschool for the better of their children. Because of this, all homeschooling needs to be umbrellaed. I think maybe you’re taking this personally because you homeschool, and you shouldn’t. You are very clearly a smart woman who takes academics seriously. No one is implying you aren’t doing a great job. But look at it this way - if you are truly concerned with kids falling through the cracks, as you mentioned earlier, shouldn’t you also accept the fact that there are lousy ****ing parents out there who homeschool just because they are too lazy to get out of bed and get their kids ready? Parents who will homeschool because they don’t want anyone to see the black eye their kids have? What about those kids falling through the cracks?

We are already incredibly short staffed and funded in social services/child protective agencies and our public school teachers are underpaid and under resourced in many places.

Social services and child protective services are available for all kids, not just kids in public school.

That they are short staffed has nothing to do with anything. They still have to be there to advocate for children, no matter how they receive their education.

I get where the concern comes from - but the reality is we don’t care about kids OR education in the US. We just don’t.

I agree with this as well. So we should all be concerned when certain parents take up the homeschool yoke for reasons not in the best interest of the child.

 

[BirdinHand]

You can just use many of the CPS resources that we have. I gave the problem with just how unregulated home schools are in ohio that you can literally train your kid on the turner diaries and act like a credentialed teacher as an example.

CPS agencies are short staffed and underfunded already. So sure, just add more to their plate

 

[nota bene]

Here you are arguing for some regulation of teachers without arguing it for parents, proving my point.

"Much has changed..." what the hell does that mean?

Because home schooling is so unregulated, it is difficult to say how prevelant child abuse is involved in it. It is unconscionable that anyone is okay with this. To use this to argue that child abuse is not an issue due to a lack of data on it is simply dishonest.

"138 of the 380 students withdrawn from public schools for home education during that period lived in households with at least one prior complaint of suspected abuse or neglect."

This should trouble everyone.

Where have I argued for regulation of teachers?

I'm sorry to have to spell out for you what has changed in the past ten+ years: The pandemic.

Opinions On Homeschooling Have Changed During The Pandemic

Far from what the loudest voices on social media seem to say, the pandemic has made people more favorable to homeschooling, not less.

www.forbes.com

Census Bureau’s Household Pulse Survey Shows Significant Increase in Homeschooling Rates in Fall 2020

The U.S. Census Bureau’s Household Pulse Survey shows a substantial increase in homeschooling during COVID-19.

www.census.gov

As U.S. schools reopen, many families continue to opt for homeschooling

The coronavirus pandemic ushered in what may be the most rapid rise in homeschooling the U.S. has ever seen.

www.pbs.org

https://www.npr.org/2021/03/22/980149971/homeschooling-doubled-during-the-pandemic-u-s-census-survey-finds

Et cetera.

 

[Superfly]

CPS agencies are short staffed and underfunded already. So sure, just add more to their plate

Child Protective Services are supposed to be there for children, period. Doesn’t matter how they are educated.

You seem to be implying that CPS is only for kids in public school, unless I’m reading you wrong.

 

[BirdinHand]

Child Protective Services are supposed to be there for children, period. Doesn’t matter how they are educated.

You seem to be implying that CPS is only for kids in public school, unless I’m reading you wrong.

No, I’m not saying they are only for public school kids.

I’m saying they’re are overburdened. As are public schools.

I don’t see where the resources are going to be pulled for in your desire to oversee homeschool. Nor do I see an appetite by the majority to tackle the challenge.

 

[Superfly]

No, I’m not saying they are only for public school kids
I’m saying they’re are overburdened. As are public schools.

But again - they are there for all kids. If the kids were no longer homeschooled and dropped back into the public school system, they are still going to have to monitor them. They are still going to be overworked and understaffed.

I don’t see where the resources are going to be pulled for in your desire to oversee homeschool. Nor do I see an appetite by the majority to tackle the challenge.

As I said, by tuition paid. I could very easily be a self-sustaining system. I’ve seen it happen.

 

[Napoleon]

I agree with this, for the most part. My girls all learned at a different pace, so I saw it firsthand.

The point I was making, though, is that children have to be able to meet certain milestones by a certain age. Would you be ok with a 9 year old not being able to read a cereal box?

If your child gets to a certain age and they haven’t met certain milestones academically, then either you aren’t teaching them in the manner they should be taught (see: my neighbors) or they have a learning disability that needs to be met. If that happens, you have to modify your teaching plan drastically, or consider that teaching someone with learning disabilities might be over your head, and you have to tender your child to someone more suited than you for the job.

Education should certainly be a matter of gradations with each level serving as the foundation for the next. The problem is the assumption that, barring a mental defect, all levels are achievable for all children and at the same rate. The truth is that most US adults academically peaked in 5th grade. Are we to take that to mean most Americans are mentally defective or should we view it as a symptom of a fatally flawed system?

 

[Superfly]

Education should certainly be a matter of gradations with each level serving as the foundation for the next. The problem is the assumption that, barring a mental defect, all levels are achievable for all children and at the same rate. The truth is that most US adults academically peaked in 5th grade. Are we to take that to mean most Americans are mentally defective or should we view it as a symptom of a fatally flawed system?

5th grade? I’ve never heard that in my life. Do you have a study where you got this information?

 

[bomberfox]

CPS agencies are short staffed and underfunded already. So sure, just add more to their plate

And more funding sure but it would also require legal changes.

 

[Napoleon]

5th grade? I’ve never heard that in my life. Do you have a study where you got this information?

“About 130 million adults in the U.S. have low literacy skills according to a Gallup analysis of data from the U.S. Department of Education. This means more than half of Americans between the ages of 16 and 74 (54%) read below the equivalent of a sixth-grade level.”

Reading the numbers: 130 million American adults have low literacy skills — APM Research Lab

About 130 million adults in the U.S. have low literacy skills according to a Gallup analysis of data from the U.S. Department of Education. This means more than half of Americans between the ages of 16 and 74 (54%) read below the equivalent of a sixth-grade level.

www.apmresearchlab.org

 

[JMR]

Because “grades” are completely fabricated constructs that only exist in the context of institutionalized schools.

The entire concept doesn’t work outside of attempting to educate groups of children in a large setting.

A 7 year old doesn’t *need* to have learned something just because they are 7.

Some kids learn certain things faster or slower than others. Because every person is different and every person has different strengths.

I agree if a child is lucky enough to have an entirely individualized education. For children attending school there are concepts that should be introduced by certain grades (familiar with a compass NSEW, subtraction, rhymes, etc. basic stuff) so as they proceed through school assumptions about what they have been taught are on target.

 

[Superfly]

“About 130 million adults in the U.S. have low literacy skills according to a Gallup analysis of data from the U.S. Department of Education. This means more than half of Americans between the ages of 16 and 74 (54%) read below the equivalent of a sixth-grade level.”

Reading the numbers: 130 million American adults have low literacy skills — APM Research Lab

About 130 million adults in the U.S. have low literacy skills according to a Gallup analysis of data from the U.S. Department of Education. This means more than half of Americans between the ages of 16 and 74 (54%) read below the equivalent of a sixth-grade level.

www.apmresearchlab.org

Holy shit. Thanks for the article. Wow.

 

[Roadvirus]

I certainly had teachers that were that way.

It's especially worse in school districts that have a "meh" attitude towards kids with special needs.