Lack of home schooling oversight obvious danger to children

[BirdinHand]

No i really dont think you do understand the concern no offense otherwise you would not be so against regulating against those hiccups. Those hiccups result in a severely broken child i think we owe it to the children.

We have tens of thousands of severely broken children currently in public school systems with thousands of well trained therapists, teachers, administrators and child service agencies involved.

When that system can demonstrate an ability to fix the problem in any way, then we can expand the scope of what has been found to be effectual into the homeschool realm.

We can’t fix bad parenting. The greatest tool we have is birth control and abortion and encouraging people not up to the task of being GOOD parents to not BE parents.

Our current iteration of government is forcing people that don’t want to be parents to become parents.

My expectation is that you’ll see more parents that actually care about their children removing them from the existing public school system as a consequence of those outcomes.


It’s unfortunate, but that’s reality.

 

[bomberfox]

So you have seen reliable stats that show homeschooled kids on average fare worse in standardized test that kids in school? On average go to college less? On average get poorer paying jobs? What's the metric you're basing that statement on?

Jesus christ on a cracker. This isnt about comparing efficacy of the vast majority.

 

[bomberfox]

We have tens of thousands of severely broken children currently in public school systems with thousands of well trained therapists, teachers, administrators and child service agencies involved.

When that system can demonstrate an ability to fix the problem in any way, then we can expand the scope of what has been found to be effectual into the homeschool realm.

We can’t fix bad parenting. The greatest tool we have is birth control and abortion and encouraging people not up to the task of being GOOD parents to not BE parents.

Our current iteration of government is forcing people that don’t want to be parents to become parents.

My expectation is that you’ll see more parents that actually care about their children removing them from the existing public school system as a consequence of those outcomes.


It’s unfortunate, but that’s reality.

I dont think you get the concern. You can prevent evil parents from ruining a child’s life by not giving them the option to act like a credentialed teacher lol. This parental right needs to move from a property right to a stewardship right. Plenty of countries have standards and they seem to be working.

 

[BirdinHand]

Jesus christ on a cracker. This isnt about comparing efficacy of the vast majority.

I get it. Your heart is in the right place.

But the system can’t fix what you want it to.

You can prevent evil parents from ruining a child’s life by not giving them the option to act like a credentialed teacher lol.

No, you can't.

Evil parents can and do ruin children's lives every.single.day - whether or not that kid is in a public school, a private school, or being homeschooled.

Schools can't fix the damage done by crappy parents. It isn't designed to, it doesn't have the resources to, and teachers/school staff don't have the bandwidth to. ASKING them to do that is what is diluting their ability to effectively TEACH.

And, frankly, anyone with a degree can become "credentialed" as a teacher. It doesn't take much for someone with a BA or BS to pick up the additional certifications, especially with the current teacher shortage.

Being a credentialed teacher is largely about disseminating information to a large group of students, classroom management, abiding by policies/procedures, etc. Today's teachers do NOT teach TO the individual skills and strengths of students. They can't. They have too many kids to do so. A grade 3 curriculum is a grade 3 curriculum. The teacher presents it and a child either grasps and masters it or is flagged as not grasping it.

Report cards are a JOKE. Seriously. A JOKE.

I get more information on my son's IEP than ANYONE gets on a report card. You get a numeric/alphanumeric/coded grade on a report card. Even in his fancy private school. Teachers have SO many students, or so many reports to complete - in many districts, they've gone from actual notes on report cards to numeric coding for "individual remarks".

That's not education - it is a production line.

This parental right needs to move from a property right to a stewardship right.

Parents who treat their children like possessions wind up being the parents who are cut out of children's lives when they grow up.

 

[Gaius46]

Jesus christ on a cracker. This isnt about comparing efficacy of the vast majority.

You made a statement. I'm trying to figure out what you meant by it and whether it's actually accurate.

 

[Superfly]

Schooling doesn't exist to "monitor" the health and safety of children.

Public school exists as an option for parents so that ALL children can have access to an education. Whether a family decides to avail themselves of that option is their choice.

I have no desire to demonize homeschooling families, the vast majority of them are doing what they feel is best for their children

I had a lady in my neighborhood. She homeschooled both her children. She walked them out into the yard and they counted 5 dandelions and she said that counted for math for the day.

The kids were 10 and 12.

Homeschooling isn’t for lazy parents. We won’t find out who the lazy parents are until kids like my neighbors get out into the workforce and can’t do basic math, because their mother never made them learn.

 

[Superfly]

Some homeschooling families are doing what they need to do, yes.

But it creates an inherent risk for the child that is not easily overcome. Isolation from society can create conditions that are, mildly put, problematic for the child.

My sister was homeschooled and was never socialized at all, with the exception of people from their church. She’s 43 now and won’t go shopping by herself.

 

[Superfly]

Not to gas up my mom too much, but I think she basically created the best possible homeschool experience and outcomes.

I agree. Sounds wonderful.

 

[bomberfox]

I get it. Your heart is in the right place.

But the system can’t fix what you want it to.


No, you can't.

Evil parents can and do ruin children's lives every.single.day - whether or not that kid is in a public school, a private school, or being homeschooled.

Schools can't fix the damage done by crappy parents. It isn't designed to, it doesn't have the resources to, and teachers/school staff don't have the bandwidth to. ASKING them to do that is what is diluting their ability to effectively TEACH.

And, frankly, anyone with a degree can become "credentialed" as a teacher. It doesn't take much for someone with a BA or BS to pick up the additional certifications, especially with the current teacher shortage.

Being a credentialed teacher is largely about disseminating information to a large group of students, classroom management, abiding by policies/procedures, etc. Today's teachers do NOT teach TO the individual skills and strengths of students. They can't. They have too many kids to do so. A grade 3 curriculum is a grade 3 curriculum. The teacher presents it and a child either grasps and masters it or is flagged as not grasping it.

Report cards are a JOKE. Seriously. A JOKE.

I get more information on my son's IEP than ANYONE gets on a report card. You get a numeric/alphanumeric/coded grade on a report card. Even in his fancy private school. Teachers have SO many students, or so many reports to complete - in many districts, they've gone from actual notes on report cards to numeric coding for "individual remarks".

That's not education - it is a production line.



Parents who treat their children like possessions wind up being the parents who are cut out of children's lives when they grow up.

Public schools give them time to escape them fact.

 

[bomberfox]

I had a lady in my neighborhood. She homeschooled both her children. She walked them out into the yard and they counted 5 dandelions and she said that counted for math for the day.

The kids were 10 and 12.

Homeschooling isn’t for lazy parents. We won’t find out who the lazy parents are until kids like my neighbors get out into the workforce and can’t do basic math, because their mother never made them learn.

This. The homeschooling fans like to pretend nothing can be done about this.

 

[JMR]

I think some parents are wonderful teachers and very adept at homeschooling

On the other hand there are parents who are not capable of educating their child.

Though every parent has (now) a right to make the decision to homeschool, I think an important question is why?
Do you wish to expand on the scope of public education? Or do you wish to "protect" your child from public education.?

I do believe that home schoolers need to check in periodically and verify that the children are actually being educated.

Truth be told, I considered home schooling my son....basically to spare him the boredom of learning to read (which he already did)... and then thought the missed social opportunities outweighed the boredom.

 

[bomberfox]

I get it. Your heart is in the right place.

But the system can’t fix what you want it to.


No, you can't.

Evil parents can and do ruin children's lives every.single.day - whether or not that kid is in a public school, a private school, or being homeschooled.

Schools can't fix the damage done by crappy parents. It isn't designed to, it doesn't have the resources to, and teachers/school staff don't have the bandwidth to. ASKING them to do that is what is diluting their ability to effectively TEACH.

And, frankly, anyone with a degree can become "credentialed" as a teacher. It doesn't take much for someone with a BA or BS to pick up the additional certifications, especially with the current teacher shortage.

Being a credentialed teacher is largely about disseminating information to a large group of students, classroom management, abiding by policies/procedures, etc. Today's teachers do NOT teach TO the individual skills and strengths of students. They can't. They have too many kids to do so. A grade 3 curriculum is a grade 3 curriculum. The teacher presents it and a child either grasps and masters it or is flagged as not grasping it.

Report cards are a JOKE. Seriously. A JOKE.

I get more information on my son's IEP than ANYONE gets on a report card. You get a numeric/alphanumeric/coded grade on a report card. Even in his fancy private school. Teachers have SO many students, or so many reports to complete - in many districts, they've gone from actual notes on report cards to numeric coding for "individual remarks".

That's not education - it is a production line.



Parents who treat their children like possessions wind up being the parents who are cut out of children's lives when they grow up.

You most certainly can help kids escape abusive parents. It happens. Public schools enable a child to get a wider education than many will ever get from home. If they are homeschooled by a cult they get none.

 

[bomberfox]

You made a statement. I'm trying to figure out what you meant by it and whether it's actually accurate.

Im saying we should have some standards and rules in place to prevent the worst from abusing their ability to homeschool kids. Its not self regulating if you can train your kids as a homeschooler on the turner diaries. This happens in Ohio and it just baffles me how we dont arrest the parents.

 

[Superfly]

This. The homeschooling fans like to pretend nothing can be done about this.

I see nothing wrong with homeschooling, but if it’s going to happen, there need to be rules in place where the kids have to be tested to make sure that each year, they are at the grade level they need to be. You ever hear of a homeschooled kid who failed their grade?

No, me either.

 

[bomberfox]

I see nothing wrong with homeschooling, but if it’s going to happen, there need to be rules in place where the kids have to be tested to make sure that each year, they are at the grade level they need to be. You ever hear of a homeschooled kid who failed their grade?

No, me either.

Yeah i dont really see the problem with some oversight.

 

[BirdinHand]

I see nothing wrong with homeschooling, but if it’s going to happen, there need to be rules in place where the kids have to be tested to make sure that each year, they are at the grade level they need to be. You ever hear of a homeschooled kid who failed their grade?

No, me either.

Because “grades” are completely fabricated constructs that only exist in the context of institutionalized schools.

The entire concept doesn’t work outside of attempting to educate groups of children in a large setting.

A 7 year old doesn’t *need* to have learned something just because they are 7.

Some kids learn certain things faster or slower than others. Because every person is different and every person has different strengths.

 

[Superfly]

Because “grades” are completely fabricated constructs that only exist in the context of institutionalized schools.

The entire concept doesn’t work outside of attempting to educate groups of children in a large setting.

A 7 year old doesn’t *need* to have learned something just because they are 7.

Some kids learn certain things faster or slower than others. Because every person is different and every person has different strengths.

I get this. I do. But there have to be standards. You don’t want a 3rd grader being unable to read, just because his pace should be slowed to a crawl.

If he’s still struggling to read at 3rd grade, then the other classes he needs to start in 3rd grade are going to be pushed back, so he can still be taught how to read. At what point does he catch up?

 

[Gaius46]

Im saying we should have some standards and rules in place to prevent the worst from abusing their ability to homeschool kids. Its not self regulating if you can train your kids as a homeschooler on the turner diaries. This happens in Ohio and it just baffles me how we dont arrest the parents.

Nothing is ever 100%. If 95% of homeschooled kids perform at least as well as kids in HS I'd say that's pretty successful and additional regulation isn't really necessary. So I don't really see the need to use the heavy hand of government in that case. FYI, I didn't homeschool my kids so I have no dog in this fight. I do know several people who did and their kids for the most part went to college and in all cases turned out just fine.

Just because I was curious I checked the requirements in my state. You need file a letter of intent, create an approved syllabus with textbooks, file quarterly progress reports and the child has to take, either yearly or every other year a nationally approved achievement test. That seems reasonable to me.

 

[bomberfox]

Nothing is ever 100%. If 95% of homeschooled kids perform at least as well as kids in HS I'd say that's pretty successful and additional regulation isn't really necessary. So I don't really see the need to use the heavy hand of government in that case. FYI, I didn't homeschool my kids so I have no dog in this fight. I do know several people who did and their kids for the most part went to college and in all cases turned out just fine.

Just because I was curious I checked the requirements in my state. You need file a letter of intent, create an approved syllabus with textbooks, file quarterly progress reports and the child has to take, either yearly or every other year a nationally approved achievement test. That seems reasonable to me.

Yeah check out Ohio… its bad….. i dont think your percentage is correct either.

 

[PoS]

Lack of home schooling oversight ‘obvious danger’ to children, experts say

More US families are choosing to home school, meaning removing access to mandated reporters and lack of education monitoring

www.theguardian.com

Part of homeschooling's appeal is its lack of oversight. This is precisely what can make it problematic.

Since parents are the vast majority who homeschool their kids, thats like saying all parents need gubmint oversight.

What a moronic article- but hey, its from the Guardian, the bastion of woke media in the UK, so no surprise there.

 

[nota bene]

The point of regulating it is because there are many parents that specifically take them out of public schools to brainwash them.

Many? How many? What percent?

 

[j brown's body]

I had a lady in my neighborhood. She homeschooled both her children. She walked them out into the yard and they counted 5 dandelions and she said that counted for math for the day.

The kids were 10 and 12.

Homeschooling isn’t for lazy parents. We won’t find out who the lazy parents are until kids like my neighbors get out into the workforce and can’t do basic math, because their mother never made them learn.

Not regulating home schooling is insane and very dangerous.

Too many parents see their kids as their private property and can force them to do whatever they want.

Those who call for standards in public education but give home schooling a free ride are hypocrites putting children's safety at risk.

This should be a no-brainer.

 

[nota bene]

Not regulating home schooling is insane and very dangerous.

Too many parents see their kids as their private property and can force them to do whatever they want.

Those who call for standards in public education but give home schooling a free ride are hypocrites putting children's safety at risk.

This should be a no-brainer.

Too many? How many? Who is calling for standards in public education but a "free ride" to homeschooling? Let's see some evidence, including of safety risks.

 

[j brown's body]

Too many? How many? Who is calling for standards in public education but a "free ride" to homeschooling? Let's see some evidence, including of safety risks.

Virtually every conservative I know complains of lack to training and/or standards for teachers and none for parents teaching.

"Little research exists on the links between home schooling and child abuse. The few studies conducted in recent years have not shown that home-schooled children are at significantly greater risk of mistreatment than those who attend public, private or charter schools.

But the research also suggests that when abuse does occur in home-school families, it can escalate into especially severe forms — and that some parents exploit lax home education laws to avoid contact with social service agencies.

In 2014, a group of pediatricians published a study of more than two dozen tortured children treated at medical centers in Virginia, Texas, Wisconsin, Utah and Washington. Among the 17 victims old enough to attend school, eight were home-schooled.

After a home-schooling mother killed her autistic teenager, government analysts in Connecticut gathered data from six school districts over three years. Their report, released in 2018 by the state’s Office of the Child Advocate, found that 138 of the 380 students withdrawn from public schools for home education during that period lived in households with at least one prior complaint of suspected abuse or neglect."

Link

Why hide it? Why not regulate home schooling so we can get accurate statistics on home schooling and abuse?

 

[Napoleon]

I get this. I do. But there have to be standards. You don’t want a 3rd grader being unable to read, just because his pace should be slowed to a crawl.

If he’s still struggling to read at 3rd grade, then the other classes he needs to start in 3rd grade are going to be pushed back, so he can still be taught how to read. At what point does he catch up?

We have standards for public education and the reality is the system is a miserable failure as measured by those standards. There isn’t a one-size-fits-all solution. To have a standard requires predicating it on the fallacy that all children have equal aptitude.