Israel Isolated as UN Security Council Demands Immediate Ceasefire in Gaza

[ModernDiogenes]

Indeed, if only the Jews and Muslims would sit down and negotiate like good Christians - right?

Well, no. If only the circumstances as they exist could be addressed so that the fighting might stop and cooker heads can prevail.

A weaker force started a conflict with a stronger one. There is an Impasse. Someone has to give or one side will need to cease existing. That’s how people work in the real world.

I presume that the negotiation would primarily be about the size of the trucks that the non-Jews would be trucked out of the country in and how much personal baggage they would be allowed to take with them.

It will be what the forces that have access force it to be, but outside forces will have little effect in Israel just now.

You guys need to understand I’m not picking sides in this. I think BOTH sides are wrong. I’m addressing what is, how people work, and what real world things need to take place if peace is the desired end result n

[I'm consistent. It’s the same tact I take with Trump. It’s not political. It’s not arguing the policies Trumpsters seem to favor. It’s arguing the metrics as they exist and Trump’s obvious personal history as a horrible human being of ill repute.

Like most things in the real world this is a flawed, imperfect, situation. For it to begin to get corrected first Hamas has to go. That simply is as it is.]

 

[Ethel2]

I see, so are you opposed to the establishment of "Kurdistan" since there has never been such a sovereign state and those Kurds are "squatters on land of the Ottoman Empire"?

PS - It's a good thing that you weren't around in 1776 because you would have objected to the formation of the United States of America on the ground that there had never been such a sovereign state and the "colonists" were squatters on the land of the Iroquois and Algonquin nations?

Land ownership is a mirage. It’s always been a mirage. The US formerly belonged to the native Americans. Mexico formerly belonged to the Aztecs and other tribes. Brazil was annexed by Portugal-and so forth.
Israel believes that the West Bank now belongs to them. The people squatting there think it’s theirs. Only good faith negotiations can resolve the dispute.

 

[Ethel2]

I'm sorry. I made the rash assumption that you were rather literate.

I am quite literate as you know.
I simply don’t choose to waste my time reading useless and irrelevant analogies.

 

[Ethel2]

Remind me, when did the Ottoman Empire cease to exist? Furthermore maps of the region, in this case prior to 1945, clearly show 'Palestine'. I have a Palestinian coin; inscibed in Arabic on one side, and Hebrew on the obverse. Strange that maps and currency were produced for a country which never existed. The current Jerusalem Post newspaper was previously the Palestine Post. Another anomaly?
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There has never been a country called Palestine that has been recognized in the manner say, France has been recognized. That’s a fact and I won’t debate facts, as you know.
There are the “Palestinian territories “ but there is no state of Palestine. Never has been. That’s what the “two state solution “ is all about.
The people living in the Palestinian Territories deserve their own nation. As yet it doesn’t exist.

 

[Ethel2]

And yet, under the cover of the Gaza invasion. Israel has sieved more West Bank territory than ever before, and is openly encouraging Zionist vigilantes to attack Palistinians.

I know
And I think that even the existing settlements there are an atrocity.
Israel is forcefully displacing people from their homes through a variety of means in a territory that hasn’t been established as theirs. For example, they ask the homeowner for a deed of trust proving that they own the land (these deeds were lost at least 100 years ago in the Ottoman Empire). When the homeowner can’t produce the deed the Israelis seize it. On other occasions they change the zoning laws or building codes such that the people living in the home are no longer in compliance. Then they raze the house. This behavior is part of Netanyahus policy.
Yes, he’s a pig too.

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

Land ownership is a mirage. It’s always been a mirage. The US formerly belonged to the native Americans. Mexico formerly belonged to the Aztecs and other tribes. Brazil was annexed by Portugal-and so forth.
Israel believes that the West Bank now belongs to them. The people squatting there think it’s theirs. Only good faith negotiations can resolve the dispute.

"... the people squatting there ..." - isn't it amazing how much dismissal of the value of human lives you can squeeze into four words?

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

There has never been a country called Palestine that has been recognized in the manner say, France has been recognized. That’s a fact and I won’t debate facts, as you know.
There are the “Palestinian territories “ but there is no state of Palestine. Never has been. That’s what the “two state solution “ is all about.
The people living in the Palestinian Territories deserve their own nation. As yet it doesn’t exist.

The people living in North America before the colonists arrived "obviously" didn't "deserve" their own nation - right?

The people living in what is now Israel before the Israelis took it away from them "obviously" didn't "deserve" their own nation - right?

The Romans who held the land before the Muslims took it away from them "obviously" didn't "deserve" their own nation - right?

The Hebrews who held the land before the Romans took it away from them "obviously" didn't "deserve their own nation - right?

The Egyptians who held the land before the Hebrews took it away from them "obviously" didn't "deserve" their own nation - right?

The Canaanites who held the land before the Egyptians took it away from them "obviously" didn't "deserve" their own nation - right?

 

[Ethel2]

"... the people squatting there ..." - isn't it amazing how much dismissal of the value of human lives you can squeeze into four words?

Yup
It’s really was when I tell the truth

 

[Ethel2]

The people living in North America before the colonists arrived "obviously" didn't deserve their own nation - right?

Did I write that? Please show me where I wrote that.
I do remember writing that land ownership is a mirage. Throughout history that has been the case. Did you want to dispute that?

 

[ElChupacabra]

**** the Palestinians, just another bunch of worthless, violent, fanatical Muslims.

Rats, living in a shit hole of they're own making.

I'm crossing my fingers that Israel won't back down.

They need to go into Rafah and finish the job and kill every last vulgar Hamas rapist.

12,000 or 13,000 killed, 5,000 more and the job will be done.

Yeesh. What a rubbish post. It's precisely this kind of idiotic rationale that will keep the conflict going on. Interesting that you back the same kind of idiotic rationale that terrorists use to justify their attacks. The core of your rationale is what comprised Bin Laden's justification to attack civilians on 9/11. Well done.

 

[Lutherf]

Gaza is not Israeli territory.

Israel claims it is no longer occupying the Gaza Strip. What does international law say?

The laws of occupation codify a basic principle of humanity: those with effective control over a population have obligations to protect it.

www.atlanticcouncil.org

Let's be clear about how all this plays out.

The region that Gaza occupies was partitioned as Palestinian in 1947 (UN Resolution 181). Arab states rejected the plan after it was voted on and approved then Arab League forces invaded Israel. With the Armistice in 1949 the region of Gaza became Egyptian territory and the West Bank ended up occupied by Jordan, though was undeclared as Jordanian territory in the Armistice (Israel just kind of let that slide to keep the peace). Israel completely pulled out of both regions.

In 1967 Nasser closed off the Suez to Israeli shipping thus provoking the Six Day War. Jordan, siding with Egypt became a legitimate target and the result was Israeli occupation of the West Bank, Gaza and pretty much all of the Sinai. At the cessation of hostilities Israel backed out of the Sinai but continued to occupy Gaza and the West Bank. Please note that Israel DID NOT exterminate the Palestinians and allowed them a moderate level of independence even though there was aggression from the Palestinians all along. The Palestinian government ran into some internal conflict between Fatah, perceived as more moderate, and Hamas which was MUCH more aggressive against Israel. Hamas, already a terrorist organization, "won" a 2005 election and effectively took over Gaza with Israel backing away completely. From that point forward Hamas has called for the elimination of "Zionism" with the latest attempt at such occurring on 10/7/23.

The relationship between Palestinians and Israelis has been tense pretty much forever but it has ALWAYS been Palestinians that attack Israel, Israel responding and then Israel backing off. Israel has ALWAYS been willing to live side by side with Palestinians and the Palestinians have NEVER been willing to do the same. At this point, more than 100 years since the original Mandate for Palestine and ZERO effort by Palestinians to accept a Jewish state, I say we let them all rot until they pull their shit together and establish a government that's willing and able to function as a peaceful, productive nation.

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

Did I write that? Please show me where I wrote that.

You don't have to specifically write anything when your whole argument is based on "The Israelis - AND ONLY THE ISRAELIS - have a right to own that land because they owned it several thousand years earlier." while totally accepting that the people who owned the land that is now the United States of America several HUNDRED years earlier simply have absolutely no right to it whatsoever.

I do remember writing that land ownership is a mirage. Throughout history that has been the case. Did you want to dispute that?

You persist in conflating "Israel has the right to the land because their ancestors possessed it several thousand years ago" and "Israel has the right to the land because they took it and no one is strong enough to take it back from them".

 

[Ethel2]

You don't have to specifically write anything when your whole argument is based on "The Israelis - AND ONLY THE ISRAELIS - have a right to own that land because they owned it several thousand years earlier." while totally accepting that the people who owned the land that is now the United States of America several HUNDRED years earlier simply have absolutely no right to it whatsoever.

You persist in conflating "Israel has the right to the land because their ancestors possessed it several thousand years ago" and "Israel has the right to the land because they took it and no one is strong enough to take it back from them".

Please show me where I wrote that Israel has the right to the land that is now the sovereign state of Israel BECAUSE their ancestors possessed it thousands of years ago.
There’s no need to make shit up.
If you’re going to quote me do so accurately or you’ll lose whatever remains of your credibility.
I recognize the REALITY of who now owns the land called “the United States “. It’s no longer the property of the Native Americans. I recognize that reality without passing judgement of whether it’s right or wrong.
I also recognize the reality that the sovereign nation of Israel now owns the land upon which it sits. It wasn’t always that way, but it is now. Perhaps in the future that land will belong to someone else. Right now it’s Israel.
You would do well to recognize this fact.

 

[Crunchtime]

How pathetically simplistic! Israel (Netanyahu), lies constantly. Why would you trust the word of a proven, habitual liar over that of aid workers and medics, on the ground in Gaza? If you think not trusting the 'word' of a prolific liar is anti-Semitic, I don't know what to tell you, frankly.

Netanyahu’s six lies in one interview

In his first major international interview since returning to power, Israel’s Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu spoke to CNN earlier this month. He demonstrated that he is still a prolific liar...

www.middleeastmonitor.com

Israel-Hamas War: Netanyahu's culture of lying, Gallant's rage - opinion

One consequence of this culture of lying is that we can no longer trust the army’s continuous reports of successes in the field, when it is plain to see that the reality is far less rosy.

www.jpost.com

Netanyahu is running out of lies

***

www.haaretz.com

Bibi isn’t the only voice in Israel. Look. You seem to have found all the left wing blogs that support your anti semitism. Congratulations.

 

[Ethel2]

How pathetically simplistic! Israel (Netanyahu), lies constantly. Why would you trust the word of a proven, habitual liar over that of aid workers and medics, on the ground in Gaza? If you think not trusting the 'word' of a prolific liar is anti-Semitic, I don't know what to tell you, frankly.

Netanyahu’s six lies in one interview

In his first major international interview since returning to power, Israel’s Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu spoke to CNN earlier this month. He demonstrated that he is still a prolific liar...

www.middleeastmonitor.com

Israel-Hamas War: Netanyahu's culture of lying, Gallant's rage - opinion

One consequence of this culture of lying is that we can no longer trust the army’s continuous reports of successes in the field, when it is plain to see that the reality is far less rosy.

www.jpost.com

Netanyahu is running out of lies

***

www.haaretz.com

“Netanyahu lies constantly”= every single thing he says is a lie.
You haven’t a clue what’s really happening on the ground in Gaza but you baselessly chose one version over the other. That’s because of your own personal bias. Everyone has them. Don’t feel bad about it. Just own it.

 

[gboisjo]

The core of your rationale is what comprised Bin Laden's justification to attack civilians on 9/11. Well done.

Lets talk about the Hamas terrorist who hunted down and killed 1,139 civilians including 36 children.

Killed babies in they're cribs, raped the mothers than raided fridges

These are low life scum no different than the Taliban, ISIS or the garbage who flew jets into our towers.

Aa a matter of fact Palestinians celebrated 911, Hamas passed out candy to celebrants in the streets.

Hamas is home grown, a terrorist product of Gaza and the Jews know it.

Jews hate Palestinians and Palestinians hate Jews, there's no negotiated peace.

 

[gboisjo]

Please show me where I wrote that Israel has the right to the land that is now the sovereign state of Israel BECAUSE their ancestors possessed it thousands of years ago.
There’s no need to make shit up.
If you’re going to quote me do so accurately or you’ll lose whatever remains of your credibility.
I recognize the REALITY of who now owns the land called “the United States “. It’s no longer the property of the Native Americans. I recognize that reality without passing judgement of whether it’s right or wrong.
I also recognize the reality that the sovereign nation of Israel now owns the land upon which it sits. It wasn’t always that way, but it is now. Perhaps in the future that land will belong to someone else. Right now it’s Israel.
You would do well to recognize this fact.

The Jews should have delivered the Palestinians a death in the Six Day War.

The ones who weren't killed, kicked out to join refugees in Jordan.

Now there stuck with these animals.

 

[ElChupacabra]

Lets talk about the Hamas terrorist who hunted down and killed 1,139 civilians including 36 children.

Killed babies in they're cribs, raped the mothers than raided fridges

These are low life scum no different than the Taliban, ISIS or the garbage who flew jets into our towers.

Aa a matter of fact Palestinians celebrated 911, Hamas passed out candy to celebrants in the streets.

Hamas is home grown, a terrorist product of Gaza and the Jews know it.

Jews hate Palestinians and Palestinians hate Jews, there's no negotiated peace.

Yeah, and thanks to your rationale, it makes perfect sense for me to think all Jews hate Palestinians and are waging a war to kill all of them; I mean, every single one of them feel that way! It's so much easier to make daft generalizations instead of thinking with a bit more nuance that's far more reflective of reality. It will be a lot easier for me to process this though, so thanks!

 

[Ethel2]

The Jews should have delivered the Palestinians a death in the Six Day War.

The ones who weren't killed, kicked out to join refugees in Jordan.

Now there stuck with these animals.

Too harsh
It’s the Hamas pigs that need to be neutralized. The Palestinians I am quite sure would prefer a fair two state solution where they don’t have to worry about the Israelis killing them . I suspect they want what everyone wants: peace and prosperity and a good life for their kids. It is possible for the Israelis and the Palestinian people to live side by side in peace-but not with the pigs in control in Gaza and the head Israeli pig, Netanyahu and his ultraconservative party in control in Israel.
All that has to change.
Biden was right when he said the Israelis need a new government.

 

[ModernDiogenes]

The problem with this analogy, is that Israel withdrew from the Gaza Strip in 2005, and since 2007, Gaza has been defacto territory of Hamas. Since that time, Israel has never administrated the territory, nor have they asserted any right to do so. So you cannot truthfully claim that Israel are the de facto owners, as they have not exercised any ownership rights over that territory.

That is the argument readily used by many and I discount with the following every time it is used.

Israel stated a murky "withdrawal" from Gaza but didn't walk it the way it talked it. They controlled both sides of the border, having complete autonomy on what went in and who came out. That along with other business that clearly showed Israel was not truly releasing territorial control on Gaza makes Israel's actual intentions rather obvious.

At best it was a stepping back, not away, as an advancement toward a more fully fleshed out end result. At worst it was playing diplomatic mind games. Still, Gaza is a defacto territory of Israel at the current time.

 

[ModernDiogenes]

Land ownership is a mirage. It’s always been a mirage. The US formerly belonged to the native Americans. Mexico formerly belonged to the Aztecs and other tribes. Brazil was annexed by Portugal-and so forth.
Israel believes that the West Bank now belongs to them. The people squatting there think it’s theirs. Only good faith negotiations can resolve the dispute.

It is not a mirage. It is what we make of it as a people. That takes acknowledgement across all fronts and we just do not have that. So it becomes what is able to be taken and held.

The United States "belonged" (in quotes because Native Americans do not believe that land belongs to anyone) its indigenous population. Western Europeans came and took it and it eventually evolved into this nation. It is "theirs" because no one can change that, even if they desire it should be the case.
Crimea was Ukrainian. It is Russian because Russia took it and, currently, no one can change that even if they desire it.

I am not saying this is right or ethical. I am saying it is how the world works.

Gaza is Israel's for precisely the same reason Crimea is Russian. The only difference is the former owners of Gaza attacked first, so it is like Crimea in reverse. The attacker lost it, rather than the attacker took it.

 

[braindrain]

I am so glad that you are a firm believer that everyone should have as many votes as their money can buy. After all, that was what the Founding Fathers thought too.

That you think nations voting on UN resolutions are the same as people voting in elections just shows how detached from reality you are.
Maybe it’s a good thing Canada has no meaningful role in international affairs.

 

[Ethel2]

It is not a mirage. It is what we make of it as a people. That takes acknowledgement across all fronts and we just do not have that. So it becomes what is able to be taken and held.

The United States "belonged" (in quotes because Native Americans do not believe that land belongs to anyone) its indigenous population. Western Europeans came and took it and it eventually evolved into this nation. It is "theirs" because no one can change that, even if they desire it should be the case.
Crimea was Ukrainian. It is Russian because Russia took it and, currently, no one can change that even if they desire it.

I am not saying this is right or ethical. I am saying it is how the world works.

Gaza is Israel's for precisely the same reason Crimea is Russian. The only difference is the former owners of Gaza attacked first, so it is like Crimea in reverse. The attacker lost it, rather than the attacker took it.

I referred to it as a mirage because no one permanently owns land. People fight wars and gain temporary ownership-until a stronger group of people take it from them.

 

[TomFitz]

Don't start with that bullshit. they were the victors of war. Israel was attacked. There was a war. They won all that land and gave some back.

And they have since taken it all back and then some.

 

[snakestretcher]

Bibi isn’t the only voice in Israel. Look. You seem to have found all the left wing blogs that support your anti semitism. Congratulations.

Another one who can't tell the difference between condemning a foreign government for its actiobns, and anti-Semitism ffs! Show me one post where I have expressed any anti-Semitism. I'll save you the time; there isn't one. You can go now.