Is there no inconsistency in Zimmerman's story?

[Simon W. Moon]

You obviously missed the part where in the reenactment video Zimmerman stated that when he got through to the dispatcher that's when he parked the truck there at the clubhouse.

Since it's not true, it's probably not actually obvious.

From that point on his recount of talking to the dispatcher when parking at the clubhouse during the reenactment would have to synchronize with the audio we heard when we spoke on the phone with the dispatcher.

No, it doesn't. The re-enactment proceeds at it's own pace. Z remembers stuff when he remembers it and collapses some periods of time and expands others. That's what happens when you recount events.

 

[dolphinocean]

The point being that Z did not say that such ans such happened at such and such time. Therefore, when you say that M couldn't've been at position Z because of what GZ said, it doesn't hold water because GZ didn't give us time stamps for the various things he described.
There's no reason why GZ could "fast-forward" through the dull parts of his story while he was telling it.

Also, a reenactment is supposed to be time sensitive. You can't assumed it is fast forward or any other way when it wasn't even stated as such. Time and sequence are very important. How else do you catch any discrepancy or inconsistency if anybody can just make excuses to make them go away especially when the time line doesn't add up.

 

[dolphinocean]

Since it's not true, it's probably not actually obvious.

So, you agree it's not true. Good.

No, it doesn't. The re-enactment proceeds at it's own pace. Z remembers stuff when he remembers it and collapses some periods of time and expands others. That's what happens when you recount events.

No, not in criminal case of reenactment. If that's the case, why even go through reenactment? Might as well just tell the story in the office and be done with it.

 

[ric27]

Zim’s injuries are more consistent with common injuries suffered during a scuffle.

Wrong. His injuries are consistent with HIS version NOT yours. Your speculative version means absolutely..... ZERO

Whether he broke the law or not,

Why do we have laws on the books? What constitutes an illegality or not?

he shot and killed an unarmed teenager.

Just like any citizen....One has every right to respond with deadly force to stop a physical attack

Defend yourself with whatever means is reasonable and necessary. Do so in order to stop the assault

Reasonable is the key word

He has to justify his killing before the court of law.

Zim's defense against serious bodily harm is justified in using deadly force under traditional self defense principles

SYG also applies because Zim was in an area (public) he lawfully had a right to be – in his community/home

There are physical evidence to suggest Zimmerman's story is false. Zimmerman's own inconsistencies will also discredit his account of the event. When you take away Zimmerman's account of what occurred that night, the only thing left is his call to the police non-emergency line, which points to Zimmerman being the aggressor.

Wrong. Slight variations, but NO significant differences or discrepancies

Zimmerman himself disproved he was the one screaming.

Bring the full quote to put it under srutiny

 

[dolphinocean]

Wrong. His injuries are consistent with HIS version NOT yours. Your speculative version means absolutely..... ZERO

His injuries are not consistent with his story. The forensic science for injuries resulting from head being forcefully slammed into a concrete is different than a clean small cut or two.

Why do we have laws on the books? What constitutes an illegality or not?

Certainly not for you to make the call.

Just like any citizen....One has every right to respond with deadly force to stop a physical attack

Thay could be what Trayvon was doing.

Defend yourself with whatever means is reasonable and necessary. Do so in order to stop the assault

Reasonable is the key word

Yes, the keyword that should apply for Trayvon also and foremost.

Zim's defense against serious bodily harm is justified in using deadly force under traditional self defense principles

SYG also applies because Zim was in an area (public) he lawfully had a right to be – in his community/home

Not when you are the instigtor of this whole event especially when the physical evidence disprove your claim of self-defense.

Wrong. Slight variations, but NO significant differences or discrepancies



Bring the full quote to put it under srutiny

There were many. For starter, the location where he said Trayvon confronted him and punched him to the ground. Physical evidence of Trayvon's body was found 30 to 50 feet away.

Zimmerman claimed he got on top of Trayvon and spread out his hand after he shot him. Trayvon was found face down with his arm beneath his body.

 

[ric27]

Not when you are the instigtor of this whole event especially when the physical evidence disprove your claim of self-defense.

Exactly where, I wanted you to be in.....

The state has no evidence Zim initiated the verbal/physical confrontation. The bogus affidavit for probable cause for second degree murder says so

No witness has stated that Zim verbally/physically confronted Martin

Since, the state has no evidence Zim confronted Trayvon before the struggle.....just what hard core evidence do you have to counter that?

Don't give any bull**** theories. Stick with the evidence

 

[dolphinocean]

Exactly where, I wanted you to be in.....

The state has no evidence Zim initiated the verbal/physical confrontation. The bogus affidavit for probable cause for second degree murder says so

No witness has stated that Zim verbally/physically confronted Martin

Since, the state has no evidence Zim confronted Trayvon before the struggle.....just what hard core evidence do you have to counter that?

Don't give any bull**** theories. Stick with the evidence

Physical evidence from the crime lab report showed:

1. No Zimmerman's blood or DNA found on Trayvon's fingernail scrapings despite Zimmerman's claim that Trayvon broke his nose and covered his nose and mouth during the fight.
　
2. There were blood found on Trayvon's right hand fingernail scraping but "No DNA results foreign to Trayvon Benjamin Martin found." That means the blood belongs to Trayvon possibly from him clutching his chest after being shot.

3. No DNA results were obtained in Trayvon's left hand fingernail scraping.

4. Right cuff/lower sleeve of Trayvon's shirt: no DNA results foreign to Trayvon Martin were obtained.

5. Stain B and general rubbings from cuff/lower sleeve regions of Trayvon's hoodie: no indication of blood. No DNA results foreign to Trayvon were obtained from the right or left cuff/lower sleeves.

Tell me how are these results possible with all these supposedly nose/face punching and head grabbing and pounding or slamming going on repeatedly if we were to believe Zimmerman's story that Trayvon did all that assaults on him that caused him fear for his life and yet nothing of Zimmerman's blood or DNA found there in Trayvon?
　
Now, bear in mind that while all these supposed to be a life and death close encounter struggle between these two people, i.e. Zimmerman and Trayvon, there were other mixed DNA profiles found on Zimmerman's clothing and his gun and holster that belonged to some other unkown individuals, including DNA profiles that possibly belonged to non-human origin.
　
Now, tell me, how is that possible that they could find blood stains and DNA profiles belonging to other people excluding Zimmerman's and Trayvon's DNA profiles, but they could not find Zimmerman's blood stain or DNA profile on Trayvon's fingernail scrapings or his cuffs/lower sleeves with Trayvon doing all the punching, slamming and nose/mouth covering of the bleeding nose?
　
These are hard factual evidence from the crime lab report. IF Zimmerman's story is not to be believed, then his claim that Trayvon attacked him and did all that life threatening assault stuffs on him to cause him fear should not be taken as true and therefore should be tossed out the window.

 

[Simon W. Moon]

No, not in criminal case of reenactment. If that's the case, why even go through reenactment? Might as well just tell the story in the office and be done with it.

Because we get a lot of little details which we wouldn't've otherwise, being in the location probably is a memory aid and helps people remember, questions related to the environment may occur to the investigators which would not have occurred otherwise, etc.
I think it's an unreasonably high bar to expect GZ to be able to match the events of that evening beat by beat in his retelling.

 

[Gladiator]

Exactly where, I wanted you to be in.....

The state has no evidence Zim initiated the verbal/physical confrontation. The bogus affidavit for probable cause for second degree murder says so

No witness has stated that Zim verbally/physically confronted Martin

Since, the state has no evidence Zim confronted Trayvon before the struggle.....just what hard core evidence do you have to counter that?

Don't give any bull**** theories. Stick with the evidence

Dee Dee heard Zim talking in a threatening tone, and she heard Trayvon say he felt fearful of Zim.

In the next day re-enactment tape, Zim recounts that as he was conversing with Trayvon, that Zim started putting his hands in his pockets, like he was looking for something. Zim says he was looking for his cell phone, and he had forgotten which pocket he had last put it. How did this look ot Trayvon, Zim acting and speaking in a threatening manner, and reaching in his pockets, possibly for a knife or a gun?

Zim made Trayvon afraid for his safety, which is Assault, by Zim

Did Trayvon punch Zim out of fear what Zim was going to pull out of his pockets?

When was Zim ever afraid of Trayvon? Zim had a hollow point bullet in the chamber of his semi-automatic pistol, with no safety, except to firmly pull the trigger. Zim was just waiting until he had witness, so it would look like self-defense, and Zim could shoot Trayvon..


This is Zim's problem, that he has to take the stand to at least assert self-defense. Once Zim testifies with one word, all Zim's other contradicting statements, and heresay, comes into evidence. Zim truly believs that he has everyone out-smarted.


//

 

[dolphinocean]

Because we get a lot of little details which we wouldn't've otherwise, being in the location probably is a memory aid and helps people remember, questions related to the environment may occur to the investigators which would not have occurred otherwise, etc.
I think it's an unreasonably high bar to expect GZ to be able to match the events of that evening beat by beat in his retelling.

It's not a matter of high bar or not high bar. Let me try to explain again.

If in the reenactment video Zimmerman did not say he got through to the dispatcher and thus parked his truck at the parking lot of the clubhouse then I would agree with you. Because then Zimmerman could just sat in the truck and wait however long till Trayvon got to the clubhouse.

But, he said in the reenactment video that he got through to the dispatcher and thus parked his truck at the clubhouse. Then the timeline of what followed next should be according to the time registered in the police non-emergency audio recording. If the audio of Zimmerman reporting to the dispater that Trayvon was staring at him was clocked at 46 sec into the conversation, then it would not be possible for Trayvon to do so because Trayvon would be still way back there.

The bit by bit event, especially those relating to the clubhouse moment, were all recorded in real time by the audio with its time counter. Whatever sequence Zimmerman claimed Trayvon was doing, such as staring at him, coming to check him out, running, etc were exactly recorded as it was described by Zimmerman himself. The second by second bit of the sequence was fixed in the audio.

He can expand or retract whatever sequence he wanted or skip details but what he said has to abide by the audio recording of his non-emergency police call.

Hope this help, otherwise I'll just let it go.

 

[Gladiator]

None of that has to do with whether Zimm was yelling for help not to actually obtain help, but just to make sure that Zimm had witnesses. Which is silly for a bunch of reasons. It also doesn't address wether Zimm may have been afraid for his life or bodily harm at the time of the physical confrontation, broken nose, etc. Serino was only talking about wether Zimm was afraid at the time he decided to leave his truck and follow - or obtain an address. He is not, in what you copied, discussing wether Zimm may have been afraid at the time of the actual encounter.

In what ways did Zim display any fear of Trayvon? So Serino is correct, that Zimmerman should be convicted of Manslaughter?



//

 

[buck]

In what ways did Zim display any fear of Trayvon? So Serino is correct, that Zimmerman should be convicted of Manslaughter?

People screaming for help typically scream for help because they are fearful. Except for those people that are, according to you, just screaming for help so they can have witnesses to a shooting.

Serino did not say he should be convicted. He only stated that he should be charged. The individual most fammiliar with the law stated there is not enough evidence for a conviction. Even Serino, basically, agreed by saying the best evidence they have is Zimmerman's account. The lead investigator, Gilbreath, also agreed by stating, under oath, that they do not have anything to contradict most of Zimm's statements.

 

[joko104]

In what ways did Zim display any fear of Trayvon? So Serino is correct, that Zimmerman should be convicted of Manslaughter?



//

Serino told the press that the evidence supports Zimmerman's story and there is no basis for him to be charged.

He later said he lied about all that and only did so to protect his job with a chief and DA who didn't want to charge Zimmerman. When his new superiors declared they wanted Zimmerman arrested, Serino swore that what he said before was a lie and he believes Zimmerman committed murder - again to protect his job. Serino is on record that he will lie to please superiors to protect his job.

I think the evidence that Zimmerman feared Martin was 1.) not approaching Martin and 2.) then shooting Martin.

 

[Gladiator]

Serino told the press that the evidence supports Zimmerman's story and there is no basis for him to be charged.

He later said he lied about all that and only did so to protect his job with a chief and DA who didn't want to charge Zimmerman. When his new superiors declared they wanted Zimmerman arrested, Serino swore that what he said before was a lie and he believes Zimmerman committed murder - again to protect his job. Serino is on record that he will lie to please superiors to protect his job.

I think the evidence that Zimmerman feared Martin was 1.) not approaching Martin and 2.) then shooting Martin.

Zim told the 911 Dispatcher that he saw Tryvon staring at him, and then Trayvon was running away from Zim. Then the dispatcher heard Zim breathing heavily, and asked Zim if he was follwing Trayvon. Zim said he was trying to get an address, but was actually following Trayvon, as Trayvon was running away from Zim. Was Trayvon trying to see if Zim was still following/pursuing him?

Zim only headed back to his SUV, when Zim had lost Trayvon. Zim was trying to engage Trayvon all along. Zim walked slowly back to his SUV, so Trayvon could easily catch back up to him.

Once Zim pulled out his gun, Trayvon asked zim to "Stop" but Zim shot Trayvon anyway, and did not mention that Zim had surrendered before Zim shot Trayvon. Zim is the kind of person who should not be given a permit for concealed carry.



//

 

[ric27]

Zim told the 911 Dispatcher that he saw Tryvon staring at him, and then Trayvon was running away from Zim. Then the dispatcher heard Zim breathing heavily, and asked Zim if he was follwing Trayvon.

Whats your point?

Zim said he was trying to get an address, but was actually following Trayvon, as Trayvon was running away from Zim.

Prove it. Find a witness to corroborate it....if not :naughty

Was Trayvon trying to see if Zim was still following/pursuing him?

Maybe, a voodoo witch doctor can answer your inquiry

Zim only headed back to his SUV, when Zim had lost Trayvon. Zim was trying to engage Trayvon all along. Zim walked slowly back to his SUV, so Trayvon could easily catch back up to him.

Prove it. Find a witness to corroborate it......if not :thumbdown

Once Zim pulled out his gun, Trayvon asked zim to "Stop" but Zim shot Trayvon anyway, and did not mention that Zim had surrendered before Zim shot Trayvon. Zim is the kind of person who should not be give a permit for concealed carry.

Prove it. Find a witness to corroborate it......if not :fart

 

[Gladiator]

Whats your point?



Prove it. Find a witness to corroborate it....if not :naughty



Maybe, a voodoo witch doctor can answer your inquiry



Prove it. Find a witness to corroborate it......if not :thumbdown


Prove it. Find a witness to corroborate it......if not :fart

The proof is easy. Cross Examine Zim, playing back his 911 Tape and re-enactment tapes.

Isn't it true that while you were looking for the Club House address, you were proceeding in the general direction that Tayvon was running away?



//



//

 

[sharon]

Whats your point?



Prove it. Find a witness to corroborate it....if not :naughty



Maybe, a voodoo witch doctor can answer your inquiry



Prove it. Find a witness to corroborate it......if not :thumbdown


Prove it. Find a witness to corroborate it......if not :fart

George told the dispatcher that he was looking for the street address and then later he told Serino he was ADD and had a poor memory.

I thought that GZ took the northern cut thru and turned south into the alley.. but apparently he went all the way across to the next street which Retreat View Circle..... The street George lives on.la

 

[whysoserious]

Well, one of the guy's claims that Zimm was calling for help not to get people to help him, but just so he could have witnesses to watch the shootin... Don't believe they will ever find 6 jurors to believe that. That Zimm really had no fear after having his nose broken and Trayvon jumping on him. 6 jurors, unlikely.

Another individual's claims that Zimm tripped broke his own nose then rubbed rocks into his head - not going to find 6 to believe that. Assuming, there isn't some bombshell evidence we just are not aware of yet.

It is possible that a jury may find that Zimm could have avoided the situation by not leaving his truck or identifying himself. However, I am not convinced that negates Zimm's right to self defense after Trayvon continues with his actions.

You don't need 6 people to believe that. You need 6 people to believe there is reasonable doubt that Martin started the fight. That's it.

 

[buck]

You don't need 6 people to believe that. You need 6 people to believe there is reasonable doubt that Martin started the fight. That's it.

That is not what the discussion was about. The discussion was about Gladiator's silly assumptions. If I were you, I would try to change the topc too... Since you apparently entered a discussion in which you had no idea what was going on.

However, with the prosecution not having any evidence to couner Zimm's statements.. I am not sure you are correct. Regardless, even if he did, I believe that Zimm still has the right to self defense after Trayvon continued attacking and placing Zim in fear.

 

[Tettsuo]

However, with the prosecution not having any evidence to couner Zimm's statements.. I am not sure you are correct. Regardless, even if he did, I believe that Zimm still has the right to self defense after Trayvon continued attacking and placing Zim in fear.

Physical evidence doesn't agree with Zimmerman. No defensive wounds, none of Zimmerman's blood on Martin...anywhere in Martin. I'd say that alone is enough to put huge cracks in Zimmerman's explanation on why he had to kill Martin.

 

[Gladiator]

Whats your point?



Prove it. Find a witness to corroborate it....if not :naughty



Maybe, a voodoo witch doctor can answer your inquiry



Prove it. Find a witness to corroborate it......if not :thumbdown


Prove it. Find a witness to corroborate it......if not :fart

Where is the evidence that Zim was in fear in the seconds before Zim pulled the trigger? In Zim's re-enactment, Zim described that Trayvon was reaching toward the gun, apparenlty with Trayvon's left hand, and Zim trapped Trayvon's left hand with Zim's upper right arm.

Viewers are expected to surmise that Zim was in fear, as Trayvon reached for the gun and made some comments about Zim's demise. But Zim avoids lying. Zim does not say that as Trayvon started reaching for Zim's gun, that Zim became frightened.

Maybe Zim was not frightened, because Zim was lying on the ground, hollering "Help", but not actually in fear, because Zim knew that at any moment, Zim could pull his pistol and shoot Trayvon. Zim was just waiting for the oportune moment to shoot Trayvon. But Zim did no say he was in fear of Trayvon, and there was no reason for Zim tohave feared Trayvon.

Zim's father said on TV that Zim was afraid of losing consciousness, because Trayvon was slamming his head on the cement. But Zim had moved off the cement, and in the seconds before Zim shot Trayvon, Zim was not in fear of losing consciouness, from hiting the cement.

Zim always tries to tell the truth, but in a misleading manner. Zim is a potted plant liar. Zim did not say he was afraid of Trayvon reaching for his gun, because Zim had been lying on the ground for a minute, or so, just waiting for the right time to pull his pistol and kill Trayvon. So when Trayon reached for Zim's gun, that seemed like the best time to kill Trayvon, but the law requires that Zim be afraid for fear if a life-threatening injury. Zim implies that there was some chance that Trayvon could have gotten the gun away from Zim. Zim had his arm at his side, because Zim was just waiting for the ideal moment, and was continually ready to draw his pistol from his quick draw-holster, and kill Trayvon.

Where is the evidence that Zim was afraid? Trayvon had given up and said "Stop", when Zim shot Trayvon. There is no testimony about Zim being afraid, because Zim was planning the shot all along.

''

 

[sharon]

he is guilty of succeeding in staying alive.

What?

Trayvon wasn't looking for burglars or following anyone.

 

[Gladiator]

Where is the evidence that Zim was in fear in the seconds before Zim pulled the trigger? In Zim's re-enactment, Zim described that Trayvon was reaching toward the gun, apparenlty with Trayvon's left hand, and Zim trapped Trayvon's left hand with Zim's upper right arm.

Viewers are expected to surmise that Zim was in fear, as Trayvon reached for the gun and made some comments about Zim's demise. But Zim avoids lying. Zim does not say that as Trayvon started reaching for Zim's gun, that Zim became frightened.

Maybe Zim was not frightened, because Zim was lying on the ground, hollering "Help", but not actually in fear, because Zim knew that at any moment, Zim could pull his pistol and shoot Trayvon. Zim was just waiting for the oportune moment to shoot Trayvon. But Zim did no say he was in fear of Trayvon, and there was no reason for Zim tohave feared Trayvon.

Zim's father said on TV that Zim was afraid of losing consciousness, because Trayvon was slamming his head on the cement. But Zim had moved off the cement, and in the seconds before Zim shot Trayvon, Zim was not in fear of losing consciouness, from hiting the cement.

Zim always tries to tell the truth, but in a misleading manner. Zim is a potted plant liar. Zim did not say he was afraid of Trayvon reaching for his gun, because Zim had been lying on the ground for a minute, or so, just waiting for the right time to pull his pistol and kill Trayvon. So when Trayon reached for Zim's gun, that seemed like the best time to kill Trayvon, but the law requires that Zim be afraid for fear if a life-threatening injury. Zim implies that there was some chance that Trayvon could have gotten the gun away from Zim. Zim had his arm at his side, because Zim was just waiting for the ideal moment, and was continually ready to draw his pistol from his quick draw-holster, and kill Trayvon.

Where is the evidence that Zim was afraid? Trayvon had given up and said "Stop", when Zim shot Trayvon. There is no testimony about Zim being afraid, because Zim was planning the shot all along.

''

"Zimmerman, the report noted, “was classified as No Deception Indicated (NDI).”

Along with questions about whether his first name was George and if it was Monday, Zimmerman was asked, “Did you confront the guy you shot?’ He answered, “No.” He was also asked, “Were you in fear for your life, when you shot the guy.” Zimmerman replied, “Yes.”


Zimmerman still has not explained the ratinale for his fear, if there was fear.

George Zimmerman Passed Police Lie Detector Test Day After Trayvon Martin Killing | The Smoking Gun


//

 

[sharon]

Trayvon was right handed.. and how could he possibly have seen GZ's gun or extracted it from his trousers with his left hand?

 

[Excon]

again? wow.

here are some definitions that show his actions fall under more than a few definitions of "stalking":

To track prey or quarry.
v.tr.
1. To pursue by tracking stealthily.
2. To follow or observe (a person) persistently, especially out of obsession or derangement.

to pursue or approach prey, quarry, etc., stealthily.
2. to walk with measured, stiff, or haughty strides: He was so angry he stalked away without saying goodbye.
3. to proceed in a steady, deliberate, or sinister manner: Famine stalked through the nation.
4. Obsolete . to walk or go stealthily along.
verb (used with object)
5. to pursue (game, a person, etc.) stealthily.
6. to proceed through (an area) in search of prey or quarry: to stalk the woods for game.
7. to proceed or spread through in a steady or sinister manner: Disease stalked the land.

1. to follow or approach (game, prey, etc) stealthily and quietly
2. to pursue persistently and, sometimes, attack

again? wow!

And again, none of those fit Zimmerman's actions of following to keep under observation so he could point out the suspicious person to the police when they arrived.

You are doing nothing but grasping in the extreme when you say stalking, especially since it isn't.