Equality or Improper Use of Force?

[Riveroaks]

Yes, actually, a long time ago. I stood there holding my breath while one of my friends found the pulse in my neck and pressed on it and yes, I went unconscious. In a fight though, I wouldn't just stand there and let that happen.

That's called a choke hold and they are used in judo.

If I have the opportunity to choke someone I will take it, sure.

But that only comes up between fairly equal opponents or against someone weaker.

In most cases the fight scenario will start with either words or with an approach of some kind.

Robberies start directly with an approach by a stranger.

A stranger has no reason to approach you other than a robbery.

Other fights usually start with words.

So situational awareness requires that you pay attention to both words and to strangers approaching.

Once the approach begins, then you must reflexively enforce your safety interval, and to do this you must reflexively get to your feet and turn sideways to protect your goodies -- the gonads, liver, spleen, and solar plexus. Normally everyone turns strong side away, weak side towards, and uses their weak hand to push away while the strong hand either draws a weapon (gun or knife) or gets the strong hand ready to deliver a blow.

From that point on the stand up phase of the fight has begun. During the stand up phase you maintain your interval until you get the best chance to lunge and attack.

If the opponent throws a blow you can usually catch it like a baseball and then while holding it firmly spin under their arm and put them into a hammerlock.

Then you have 3 choices:

- keep them immobilized in the hammerlock

- dislocate their arm

- rip their arm off their body.

There are lots of other offensive and defensive opportunities as well if you wait for them. The opponent's feet are vulnerable, especially if you are wearing your motorcycle boots. The opponent's eyes, nose, and neck are normally also vulnerable.

If you are stronger than the opponent, which you must judge by arm musculature and leg musculature comparisons, then you can lunge at and tackle them and take them down and wrestle them to the ground. But if they turn out stronger than you this could turn out to be a big mistake.

I prefer to stay on my feet and maintain my interval and fight that way. But you never know what is going to happen in a real fight.

 

[Gathomas88]

Not if they're teaching a sleeper, they're not. People die unpredictably from sleepers all the time, which is why most police forced have banned them or re-classed them as deadly force.

Well... Again, we're talking about the Army here. That's kind of the idea. [emoji38]

That was also part of the reason why I let that shoplifter I mentioned on the first page go. My training was sort of kicking in, and no method of putting her down which wouldn't have either hurt the girl, or made for a rather controversial YouTube video immediately came to mind.

White security guard in a police officer-ish uniform vs black female half his size? Yeah... F-that! :lamo

I don't pick fights. I'm not the one with the need to prove my gorilla status. I prefer hugs.

Fighting is dangerous. Feeling helpless when forced to fight is also dangerous. Fighting stupid? Yes, you got it -- also dangerous.

Fair enough. Every little bit helps.

Again, I'm simply saying that the odds aren't exactly in women's favor in these kinds of altercations. I won't deny that those odds can be improved, however.

 

[SmokeAndMirrors]

I seem to recall having a very quick dream about falling down a bottomless black hole, but yeah, in retrospect that was probably not the wisest thing. I had actually forgotten about it until now.

Anyway, whatever we may disagree about, I'm glad you've spent some time thinking about and practicing self defense, for real. I hope you never need it.

Thanks. I have needed it once -- and came out no worse for the wear. Being raised to know and use your capabilities makes a big difference.

 

[Riveroaks]

Not if they're teaching a sleeper, they're not. People die unpredictably from sleepers all the time, which is why most police forced have banned them or re-classed them as deadly force. Something that unpredictable would never be permitted in a judo match.

Your chin won't help you if they're doing it from the front. If anything, it will just dig their fingers in deeper. So, no.

I don't pick fights. I'm not the one with the need to prove my gorilla status. I prefer hugs.

Fighting is dangerous. Feeling helpless when forced to fight is also dangerous. Fighting stupid? Yes, you got it -- also dangerous.

Sign up for judo. It is so much fun !!!

 

[SmokeAndMirrors]

Well... Again, we're talking about the Army here. That's kind of the idea. [emoji38]

That was also part of the reason why I let that shoplifter I mentioned on the first page go. My training was kind of kicking in, and no method of putting her down which wouldn't have either hurt the girl, or made for a rather controversial YouTube video immediately came to mind.

White security guard in a police officer-ish uniform vs black female half his size? Yeah... F-that! :lamo

Fair enough. Every little bit helps.

Again, I'm simply saying that the odds aren't exactly in women's favor in these kinds of altercations.

See, I get that, but I would think that you would want to know which things are deadly and which things aren't, so you can pick which one you use. That's... why sleepers are dangerous. They're not predictable. I don't understand why the military still uses that, unless the intent is to use it ONLY as intentionally deadly force...?

Like I said, depends on lots of things. Your average abuser man versus your average woman with learned helplessness cowering in the corner? Definitely. But that's not some kind of law of the universe. That's just one type of person. The odds in fights change moment-to-moment. More than a few have lost to a much weaker opponent, of either sex, for making that assumption. There's more to fights than dumb brute strength. But ultimately, fight often enough and the odds are bad no matter how big you are.

 

[SmokeAndMirrors]

Sign up for judo. It is so much fun !!!

Heh, maybe someday. Seems that way!

 

[Gathomas88]

See, I get that, but I would think that you would want to know which things are deadly and which things aren't, so you can pick which one you use. That's... why sleepers are dangerous. They're not predictable. I don't understand why the military still uses that, unless the intent is to use it ONLY as intentionally deadly force...?

Like I said, depends on lots of things. Your average abuser man versus your average woman with learned helplessness cowering in the corner? Definitely. But that's not some kind of law of the universe. That's just one type of person. The odds in fights change moment-to-moment. More than a few have lost to a much weaker opponent, of either sex, for making that assumption. There's more to fights than dumb brute strength. But ultimately, fight often enough and the odds are bad no matter how big you are.

In fairness, if you're having to use a rear naked choke, collar choke, or full body-weight armbar (the major 'finishing' moves I remember) on someone, things have already gotten pretty damn serious.

They're rather satisfying when successful, however. :mrgreen:

 

[mak2]

I don't think I gave the impression I was proud of it. What makes you think that?

Well, I can certainly see why that story would make you proud.

 

[Riveroaks]

In fairness, if you're having to use a rear naked choke, collar choke, or full body-weight armbar (the major 'finishing' moves I remember) on someone, things have already gotten pretty damn serious.

They're rather satisfying when successful, however. :mrgreen:

A choke is a sophisticated submission hold. Not for the average bear.

 

[Gathomas88]

A choke is a sophisticated submission hold. Not for the average bear.

It's not all that complicated. You just lock in and squeeze everything together as hard as you can until they either tap or go limp.

I was actually pretty good at scrambling around bigger, slower guys and jumping on their backs.* Lol

Hehe. :mrgreen:

*

Spoiler

Though, of course, we were all novices.

 

[Riveroaks]

Think it would be ok to knock some teeth out in exchange for a slap or a scratch?

Sure a woman can cause some physical harm, but I see far more women hospitalized at the hands of men, than vice versa.

Well, I can certainly see why that story would make you proud.

Really? So some woman slaps you on the arm because she doesn't like what you said, and you're in a moving car so you can't "escape" and you'd do what?

You deny that men are typically physically stronger than women? You see a fight between a man and a woman as being a fair fight?

Apparently that attitude actually makes you the asshole. Lol.

I don't think I gave the impression I was proud of it. What makes you think that?

All of XFactor's statements insult somebody. You're the only one Mak who has let it bother them.

 

[Riveroaks]

It's not that complicated. You just lock in and squeeze everything together as hard as you can until they either tap or go limp.

I was actually pretty good at scrambling around bigger, slower guys and jumping on their backs. Lol

Hehe. :mrgreen:

If I was up against a bigger guy I would keep my distance and work over his feet and knees with my boots until he goes down.

Not risk the spider monkey moves.

 

[mak2]

oh, sorry, I wasn't paying attention to who it was. Thanks.

All of XFactor's statements insult somebody. You're the only one Mak who has let it bother them.

 

[Gathomas88]

If I was up against a bigger guy I would keep my distance and work over his feet and knees with my boots until he goes down.

True. This was on the mat, and we were all novices, so it's probably not a great translation to the real thing.

 

[Riveroaks]

oh, sorry, I wasn't paying attention to who it was. Thanks.

Semper Fi.

 

[mak2]

Semper Fi, brother.

Semper Fi.

 

[Riveroaks]

True. This was on the mat, and we were all novices, so it's probably not a great translation to the real thing.

The thing to remember about a REAL fight is that you can end up with broken teeth, a blinded eye or two, a broken neck, and/or dead.

A real fight is not a game.

In a real fight you must maintain your interval of at least an arm's length or more at all times no matter who you are, bigger or smaller, faster or slower, stronger or weaker.

Then you need to assess what your own advantage is -- soberness, speed, strength, knowledge & training, weapons superiority, weapons deployment speed, endurance, etc.

Pushing someone else away is the fastest thing I can to.

Making a fist and hitting them is 2nd fastest.

Drawing my knife and stabbing them in the eye socket or heart is the 3rd.

Drawing my pistol and shooting them is only the 4th.

If he does not have a weapon and I draw one then I am going to jail and then prison.

Thus, pushing off, maintaining interval, evaluation, and then utilizing whatever strategy is to your best advantage is what you need to do in order to preserve your body and your life.

 

[Gathomas88]

The thing to remember about a REAL fight is that you can end up with broken teeth, a blinded eye or two, a broken neck, and/or dead.

A real fight is not a game.

In a real fight you must maintain your interval of at least an arm's length or more at all times no matter who you are, bigger or smaller, faster or slower, stronger or weaker.

Then you need to assess what your own advantage is -- soberness, speed, strength, knowledge & training, weapons superiority, weapons deployment speed, endurance, etc.

Pushing someone else away is the fastest thing I can to.

Making a fist and hitting them is 2nd fastest.

Drawing my knife and stabbing them in the eye socket or heart is the 3rd.

Drawing my pistol and shooting them is only the 4th.

If he does not have a weapon and I draw one then I am going to jail.

Thus, pushing off, maintaining interval, evaluation, and then utilizing whatever strategy is to your best advantage is what you need to do in order to preserve your body and your life.

Oh, trust me. I'm probably the last guy out there to pick one.

In my past fights (of which I've had few), I've tended to stay on the defensive, and let the other guy come to me so I can potentially capitalize on their making a mistake. I'm also not above fighting dirty. Lol

 

[Riveroaks]

Oh, trust me. I'm probably the last guy out there to pick one.

In my past fights (of which I've had few), I've tended to stay on the defensive, and let the other guy come to me so I can potentially capitalize on their making a mistake. I'm also not above fighting dirty. Lol

There is no such thing as fighting dirty.

In ancient Greece, for wrestling, the only 2 rules were (1) no eye gouging and (2) no biting.

That tells you how powerful eye gouging and biting are, and that's therefore exactly what you should do then.

On defense, my favorite techniques are to attack the eyes, the feet, and the knees. These 3 are all major weaknesses of the opponent.

On offense, if I need to bounce someone out of my house or my bar, then all I do is push and shove. That's the principle of sumo wrestling -- if you can push the opponent out of the ring then you can beat him.

 

[mak2]

What years were you in? I was in 1980-84 and at MCAS El Toro, Camp Pendleton, 29 Stumps and San Diego. My son was at the stumps for 3 years.

Semper Fi.[/Q

 

[Gathomas88]

There is no such thing as fighting dirty.

In ancient Greece, for wrestling, the only 2 rules were (1) no eye gouging and (2) no biting.

That tells you how powerful eye gouging and biting are, and that's therefore exactly what you should do then.

On defense, my favorite techniques are to attack the eyes, the feet, and the knees. These 3 are all major weaknesses of the opponent.

On offense, if I need to bounce someone out of my house or my bar, then all I do is push and shove. That's the principle of sumo wrestling -- if you can push the opponent out of the ring then you can beat him.

Yeah. The 18th and 19th Century Southern United States was apparently absolutely insane in this regard.

6 Terrible Realities of the Past That Would Ruin Time Travel

"I would advise you when you do fight not to act like tigers and bears as these Virginians do -- Biting one another's lips and noses off and gouging one another -- that is, thrusting one another's eyes, and kicking one another on the cods, to the great damage of many a poor woman."

They fought like savage monsters, but they still had their own brand of showmanship. One losing fighter was told he had done badly by a spectator, and he replied, "Have I?" while pulling his opponent's eyeball from his pocket.

"We found the combatants' fast clinched by the hair, and their thumbs endeavouring to force a passage into each other's eyes; while several of the bystanders were betting upon the first eye to be turned out of its socket. For some time the combatants avoided the thumb stroke with dexterity. At length they fell to the ground, and in an instant the uppermost sprung up with his antagonist's eye in his hand!!!"

Yeesh...

 

[Riveroaks]

What years were you in? I was in 1980-84 and at MCAS El Toro, Camp Pendleton, 29 Stumps and San Diego. My son was at the stumps for 3 years.[/Q

I was out long before you went in. We used M-14's still in the OCC.

"I didn't want no teenaged queen.

I just wanted my M-Fourteen."

Ruger makes a mini 14 that looks and works just like it only in 5.56x45. Max effective range is 500 yards.

The M-4 and the European Bullpups are the popular CQB carbines now.

They get shorter and shorter all the time. And their range gets less and less.

A fellow who had been to A-stan told me the USMC is putting one M-14 into every fire team again for desert ops.

Great rifle. Accurate to 750 yards. And you can hunt deer with it.

 

[Riveroaks]

Yeah. The 18th and 19th Century Southern United States was apparently absolutely insane in this regard.

6 Terrible Realities of the Past That Would Ruin Time Travel

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Yeesh...

If you bite somebody's thumb off then they cannot make a fist anymore.

More importantly though, if you poke them in the eye they cannot see. That then allows you to then wheel behind them and tomahawk their neck, separating their spinal cord forever.

Girls, ladies, and women can do that too, they just don't know it yet.

 

[X Factor]

All of XFactor's statements insult somebody. You're the only one Mak who has let it bother them.

I wouldn't say all of them. :mrgreen:

 

[Riveroaks]

I wouldn't say all of them. :mrgreen:

I think you know how to start a fight.

But I doubt you have been in any or that you have ever finished one.

Other than in your video games.

But as Johnny Depp said in Pirates Of The Caribbean -- sticks and stones ... .