Equality or Improper Use of Force?

[dirtpoorchris]

If a woman wouldnt stop hitting me, personally, I'd just shove her to the ground and walk away. Or maybe grapple her to the ground and then walk away.

 

[Rogue Valley]

Why not simply walk away?

 

[mak2]

I would not knowingly hit a woman. But I have. Once. I was once married to a firey redhead. We were at a friend of ours house and I remember we were sitting around the living room laughing and talking. She was sitting kinda behind me and off to one side. Suddenly she just blasted me in the back of the head. I don't remember what she hit me with but it was a big surprise to say the least. I don't remember what she was mad about but I am sure it was a joke or something that bothered her. Anyway, when she hit me in the back of the head I came around with my elbow and dropped her. I really didn't think about it or knowingly do it. What I do remember for sure was my buddy's wife was one of those militant feminist types and I remember her telling me not to worry about it, I should have hit her harder. But with that one exception there is never a situation to hit a woman of normal size and ability.

 

[MaggieD]

If a woman wouldnt stop hitting me, personally, I'd just shove her to the ground and walk away. Or maybe grapple her to the ground and then walk away.

there is such disparity of force most of the time that a guy can't win most of the time. I think the only SAFE thing for a guy to do is to run, frankly. Leave. Get out of Dodge. Get out the back Jack.

Women can be real assholes. They use their sex and supposed vulnerability to get guys in trouble. Feed their own ego. They know they're doing it. They control and humiliate them on purpose. Strangers, friends and lovers alike.

Ladies! Can't we just all get along?

 

[WCH]

The only time I've ever slapped a woman was milliseconds after she slapped me.

That was 30 years ago.

 

[Gathomas88]

Heh. I actually had to run down a female shoplifter at work the other day. I caught her, but ultimately let her go because she had already dropped the merchandise she was carrying, and she also was being uncooperative and I didn't want to have to slam down a woman half my size.

Of course, it didn't help that the female police officer I was working with was being a lazy ass who just "didn't feel" like running so she could get there in time to make the call herself. :roll:

 

[CanadaJohn]

Personally, I've never hit another person in anger - I don't see the point. If you are being assaulted, however, proper use of the necessary force to repel and/or end the assault should always be a defensible option. Let's remember that there are many women in this world - Ronda Rousey comes to mind - who are stronger and more physically dangerous than some men. Gender is not a passport to free assault.

 

[Goshin]

Personally, I've never hit another person in anger - I don't see the point. If you are being assaulted, however, proper use of the necessary force to repel and/or end the assault should always be a defensible option. Let's remember that there are many women in this world - Ronda Rousey comes to mind - who are stronger and more physically dangerous than some men. Gender is not a passport to free assault.

Bing. Not to mention anyone is dangerous with a knife in hand, or any object harder than your skull...

 

[dirtpoorchris]

Why not simply walk away?

What if shes following you and punching your lights out with every step you walk away?

I say shove or trip or pull her to the ground (not trying to cause her head to crash into the ground too hard, topple from the bottom up) And then escape.

 

[Skeptic Bob]

I'm a big dude and a trained fighter. When put in a violent situation that isn't life threatening I do my best to use the minimum amount of force necessary to extricate myself from the situation. I find it unlikely I would ever have to resort to flat out punching a woman in the face to protect myself from her. But likewise, I probably don't need to resort to that to protect myself from the average 150 lb man, either.

Now, if the woman is armed or just took the championship belt from Rhonda Rousey, then I am in trouble and I am not going to hold back, assuming I can't run away.

 

[Goshin]

This disparity of force does tend to exist, but is made too much of.

To pretend that it is so one-sided that one can always simply walk away while under assault is laughable and indicates a lack of actual experience.

Violent people often resort of using objects or weapons if they aren't "making sufficient impression" with their fists, for instance.


Even absent weapons, this "disparity" is hardly some monumental difference in many cases.


By way of example, I'll resort to the six women I know best.

"D" is a dedicated athlete and girls'-softball coach with a rock-solid physique and plenty of physical capability, along with a modicum of martial training. You wouldn't shrug her off if she came after you, I guarantee.

"S" used to get into fights with her first husband when they were both young hotheads. A sturdy gal who grew up a tomboy, she could punch like a man, and broke a guitar over his head one night when things got crazy.

"M" is a big gal and stronger than many men. She has in fact knocked men to the ground with a single punch on more than one occasion.


That's three out of six you wouldn't be able to ignore, nor to simply walk away unless they just LET you walk away.



Things are rarely so simple as to be dismissed with a one-liner solution.

 

[Excon]

there is such disparity of force most of the time that a guy can't win most of the time.
I think the only SAFE thing for a guy to do is to run, frankly. Leave. Get out of Dodge. Get out the back Jack.

Women can be real assholes. They use their sex and supposed vulnerability to get guys in trouble. Feed their own ego. They know they're doing it. They control and humiliate them on purpose. Strangers, friends and lovers alike.

Ladies! Can't we just all get along?

You do understand that between guys they are not equal in the force they can apply as well, right?

If men and women are equal, then it is the thought process (intent) and the actual action that should be considered.
Not disparity in force.

Person "A" deliberately attacks person "B" by hitting them. Person "B" responded in kind by hitting in self defense.
The sex of the individual should not matter.
Disparity should only come into play if the response far exceeds the attack. A few hits in return for one should not even be considered as disparity, as they were made in self defense.

 

[MaggieD]

You do understand that between guys they are not equal in the force they can apply as well, right?

If men and women are equal, then it is the thought process (intent) and the actual action that should be considered.
Not disparity in force.

Person "A" deliberately attacks person "B" by hitting them. Person "B" responded in kind by hitting in self defense.
The sex of the individual should not matter.
Disparity should only come into play if the response far exceeds the attack. A few hits in return for one should not even be considered as disparity, as they were made in self defense.

I don't disagree.

 

[Rogue Valley]

Things are rarely so simple as to be dismissed with a one-liner solution.

The company one keeps contributes greatly to avoiding unpleasant/abusive situations.

 

[SmokeAndMirrors]

Everyone is equally entitled to use the minimum amount of force required to end an assault -- with a certain margin of error granted for the fact that we seldom may extremely precise decisions in moments of crisis.

No more, no less. And it's disturbing to me that these conversations usually revolve around two things:

1. The bizarre leap of logic that this means getting into physical altercations and punching out women should be ok. Do you find that acceptable to do to men? I sure as **** don't. This is not about violence. It's about self-defense.

2. That women are so physically impaired to be incapable of causing harm. Ability to be a raging dick is certainly nothing to be proud of, but the implication that the female body is useless gets tiresome, as does the assumption that any man battered by a woman is just a sissy. It's also wrong, as many men on the wrong end of an abusive woman could tell you.

This whole conversation is just so ****ed up.

 

[CanadaJohn]

This disparity of force does tend to exist, but is made too much of.

To pretend that it is so one-sided that one can always simply walk away while under assault is laughable and indicates a lack of actual experience.

Violent people often resort of using objects or weapons if they aren't "making sufficient impression" with their fists, for instance.


Even absent weapons, this "disparity" is hardly some monumental difference in many cases.


By way of example, I'll resort to the six women I know best.

"D" is a dedicated athlete and girls'-softball coach with a rock-solid physique and plenty of physical capability, along with a modicum of martial training. You wouldn't shrug her off if she came after you, I guarantee.

"S" used to get into fights with her first husband when they were both young hotheads. A sturdy gal who grew up a tomboy, she could punch like a man, and broke a guitar over his head one night when things got crazy.

"M" is a big gal and stronger than many men. She has in fact knocked men to the ground with a single punch on more than one occasion.


That's three out of six you wouldn't be able to ignore, nor to simply walk away unless they just LET you walk away.



Things are rarely so simple as to be dismissed with a one-liner solution.

Rough crowd :afraid:

 

[Kal'Stang]

I've hit two women in my life. One was my sister. We used to get into fist fights quite regularly. Me being the youngest and smallest (I was born 2 months preemie) I always got my ass handed to me. The only other woman I hit was while in high school and was pure reflex. I was sitting at my desk reading just before class started when she came up and slapped me across the face for supposedly saying something I never did. My hand just shot out and nailed her in the gut. Shocked both her and me. :shrug:

So other than my sister I've never intentionally hit a woman. However if a woman was attacking me I have no problem defending myself with fists if necessary. Just because they're a woman is not any reason to hold back for defensive purposes. My fights with my sister taught me that.

 

[X Factor]

I've hit two women in my life. One was my sister. We used to get into fist fights quite regularly. Me being the youngest and smallest (I was born 2 months preemie) I always got my ass handed to me. The only other woman I hit was while in high school and was pure reflex. I was sitting at my desk reading just before class started when she came up and slapped me across the face for supposedly saying something I never did. My hand just shot out and nailed her in the gut. Shocked both her and me. :shrug:

So other than my sister I've never intentionally hit a woman. However if a woman was attacking me I have no problem defending myself with fists if necessary. Just because they're a woman is not any reason to hold back for defensive purposes. My fights with my sister taught me that.

Think it would be ok to knock some teeth out in exchange for a slap or a scratch?

 

[X Factor]

Everyone is equally entitled to use the minimum amount of force required to end an assault -- with a certain margin of error granted for the fact that we seldom may extremely precise decisions in moments of crisis.

No more, no less. And it's disturbing to me that these conversations usually revolve around two things:

1. The bizarre leap of logic that this means getting into physical altercations and punching out women should be ok. Do you find that acceptable to do to men? I sure as **** don't. This is not about violence. It's about self-defense.

2. That women are so physically impaired to be incapable of causing harm. Ability to be a raging dick is certainly nothing to be proud of, but the implication that the female body is useless gets tiresome, as does the assumption that any man battered by a woman is just a sissy. It's also wrong, as many men on the wrong end of an abusive woman could tell you.

This whole conversation is just so ****ed up.

Sure a woman can cause some physical harm, but I see far more women hospitalized at the hands of men, than vice versa.

 

[X Factor]

I would not knowingly hit a woman. But I have. Once. I was once married to a firey redhead. We were at a friend of ours house and I remember we were sitting around the living room laughing and talking. She was sitting kinda behind me and off to one side. Suddenly she just blasted me in the back of the head. I don't remember what she hit me with but it was a big surprise to say the least. I don't remember what she was mad about but I am sure it was a joke or something that bothered her. Anyway, when she hit me in the back of the head I came around with my elbow and dropped her. I really didn't think about it or knowingly do it. What I do remember for sure was my buddy's wife was one of those militant feminist types and I remember her telling me not to worry about it, I should have hit her harder. But with that one exception there is never a situation to hit a woman of normal size and ability.

Well, I can certainly see why that story would make you proud.

 

[Kal'Stang]

Think it would be ok to knock some teeth out in exchange for a slap or a scratch?

Since we're talking about intentional assault in order to do damage, :shrug: sure, why not? If knocking out teeth was done in self defense to stop further attacks, I've no problem with it no matter the amount of damage you actually received. This is of course predicated on the belief that you're unable to get away as has been mentioned in the thread already. If getting away was possible then a simple scratch would just make me want to leave. A slap, yeah, still no problem knocking some teeth out.

 

[SmokeAndMirrors]

Sure a woman can cause some physical harm, but I see far more women hospitalized at the hands of men, than vice versa.

That's because men are more violent in our culture in general. In fact, it's also men sending other men to the hospital most often. Is your conclusion is that the men injured just were just weaklings?

Also, most abuse victims of women don't report. There's a degree of shame associated with it, because of the false belief that being attacked by a woman makes you a sissy, or the weird belief that women are basically synonymous with someone with end stage muscular dystrophy.

 

[X Factor]

Since we're talking about intentional assault in order to do damage, :shrug: sure, why not? If knocking out teeth was done in self defense to stop further attacks, I've no problem with it no matter the amount of damage you actually received. This is of course predicated on the belief that you're unable to get away as has been mentioned in the thread already. If getting away was possible then a simple scratch would just make me want to leave. A slap, yeah, still no problem knocking some teeth out.

Really? So some woman slaps you on the arm because she doesn't like what you said, and you're in a moving car so you can't "escape" and you'd do what?

 

[Gathomas88]

That's because men are more violent in our culture in general. In fact, it's also men sending other men to the hospital most often. Is your conclusion is that the men injured just were just weaklings?

Also, most abuse victims of women don't report. There's a degree of shame associated with it, because of the false belief that being attacked by a woman makes you a sissy, or the weird belief that women are basically synonymous with someone with end stage muscular dystrophy.

In fairness, men are simply capable of doing a lot more damage, both to women and other men.

 

[SmokeAndMirrors]

In fairness, men are simply capable of doing a lot more damage, both to women and other men.

In an empty room with rubber walls, probably. Though as Goshin said up thread, depends on the man and woman in question. However, most of us don't live in empty rooms with rubber walls. I've been over this with you before. :yawn: