Democrats should fear lawfare tactics

[Puigb]

Because they know they can't beat him fair and square.

They already did. Numerous times actually.

 

[PoliSciXtina]

I asked @trixare4kids this and didnt get a response...perhaps you have one?

The alleged crime was committed by a resident of that jurisdiction. Arent the people of that jurisdiction entitled to holding people accountable that actually impact/may impact justice and repercussions where they live?​

She has been ignoring many questions to her on this thread so I wouldn't expect an answer.

 

[trixare4kids]

She has been ignoring many questions to her on this thread so I wouldn't expect an answer.

My prerogative to ignore questions that I deem are goal post shifts.

How come you're cheerleading? I don't expect an answer from you.

 

[Lursa]

My prerogative to ignore questions that I deem are goal post shifts.

How come you're cheerleading? I don't expect an answer from you.

Mine was a direct answer to one of yours. No shift....so no excuses.

 

[Hypothetical]

Is that what you believe the charges are?

Don't be obtuse. That is part of what the DA is saying elevates the misdemeanor's to a felony.

 

[nvflash]

Trump couldn't stand that, it's not what he wants. He's ego and narcissism wouldn't allow him to retire quietly to other profitable venues. He wants the limelight. So much so, that he was willing to commit crimes to try to maintain power after he lost.

He didn't understand how things really work and that no man is bigger than the system.

Maybe he foolishly thought he could change things, for our better, or for his own, but he is about to get a powerful lesson in how they make examples of men who think they can change anything from that office.

Change doesn't really come from the halls of government, it never did, it has to come from us when we just get fed up and can't take it anymore.

None of us really want to know how the sausage is made, the poor just want some money, the middle class just wants enough money, the upper middle class wants a little more than enough money, and the rich just want the rest of the money.

Each just a little more every year, thank you.

Long as we all get that, we really don't care what else happens, or doesn't happen.

BTW, none of us want to be in jail, except the homeless and penniless on a cold night.

Better it happen to Trump than me, sorry Donald, I voted for you but you had your own choices.

 

[Lursa]

Don't be obtuse. That is part of what the DA is saying elevates the misdemeanor's to a felony.

Cite? The specifics are required.

 

[Hypothetical]

Cite? The specifics are required.

the link in my sig explains it well enough.

 

[Lursa]

the link in my sig explains it well enough.

Thanks. It's interesting that you dont seem to realize that the testimony from Hicks, that I posted, is clear evidence demonstrating his intentional involvement. (From your link)

 

[Grand Mal]

after he left office. and was not a presidential contender. The lawfare aspect means dems are using bogus or novel extensions of law to effect election outcomes = "election interference"

You've got it backwards. Trump was being investigated well before he was a candidate. In fact, he declared his candidacy 2 years before the election, way before campaign season, hoping to get some slack on his snowballing legal problems.
And you lot want to open the door for future criminals to dodge prosecution by announcing their candidacy.

 

[Callen]

Getting Trump" with specifically crafted charges made it so they felt the usefulness of having a dramatic raid of Trump's house (they had to bring lots of publicity to only the Trump doc situation) so the public would pay lots of attention and think the Trump doc thing was somehow so much bigger than other doc problems with people like Biden. And they suddenly gave Biden every opportunity to clean up his decades of doc issues, loads of winks, gentle/kind requests and ample warnings.

Trump gave them no choice when he deliberately lied , concealed documents, moved documents and defied the subpoena. Had he not done that there would be no charges.

 

[Linuxcooldude]

When asked to return the documents, Biden did. Trump did not. You just proved why Trump is being prosecuted.

The law says nothing about if or when they are returned, only if they have them.

 

[LetsGoBrandon]

Holding a civilian ex-President to the same criminal standards as other citizens, is something to be regretted? Hardly!

In regards to personal crimes, I agree. In regards to official acts immunity is considered. I don't think they have a case against Trump on either.

 

[LetsGoBrandon]

So Republicans accuse Democrats of "lawfare" bullshit. Republicans are going to do it because they are accusing Democrats of doing it? Do you even realize how stupid your threat sounds? I mean Republicans could take the high ****ing road and refuse to do "lawfare" But they are apparently stupid enough to just join in.

Certainly does not make me want to vote for stupid assholes that would do what they are complaining about. Again do you even realize how stupid your threat was?

Ad hominems aside, name one instance where republicans have gone after democrat presidents after they left office? They could have done so with Bill Clinton. And the democrats probably would have went after Nixon after he resigned, if not for Gerald Ford pardoning him. And technically if the republicans regain the White House in 2024, they could go after Joe Biden for his part in his son's illegal business dealings with China, though it's doubtful they will. As the SP investigating Biden for the documents he stored at home after he left the Vice Presidency said: "He's an old man with a poor memory". That was just a kind way of pointing out that he is a dementia addled old fool.

 

[Callen]

The law says nothing about if they are returned, only if they have them.

You are dead wrong about that. The statute he is charged under states very specifically that the felony is not returning the National Defense documents when requested. There were hundreds of documents he had but he was only charged with the 30 or so National Defense documents he refused to return.

Here is the statute.....

(e)
Whoever having unauthorized possession of, access to, or control over any document, writing, code book, signal book, sketch, photograph, photographic negative, blueprint, plan, map, model, instrument, appliance, or note relating to the national defense, or information relating to the national defense which information the possessor has reason to believe could be used to the injury of the United States or to the advantage of any foreign nation, willfully communicates, delivers, transmits or causes to be communicated, delivered, or transmitted, or attempts to communicate, deliver, transmit or cause to be communicated, delivered, or transmitted the same to any person not entitled to receive it, or willfully retains the same and fails to deliver it to the officer or employee of the United States entitled to receive it;

 

[Luce]

"Former President Donald Trump is getting dragged through the courts via the “lawfare” charges manufactured against him

Go to a prison and ask around. Every person there is incurably innocent and was framed by crooked DAs.

 

[Linuxcooldude]

Biden knew he had the classified docs?

Cite?

I already did, the Hurr report. The investigation into Biden's retaining classified material.

 

[Linuxcooldude]

You are dead wrong about that. The statute he is charged under states very specifically that the felony is not returning the National Defense documents when requested. There were hundreds of documents he had but he was only charged with the 30 or so National Defense documents he refused to return.

Here is the statute.....

(e)
Whoever having unauthorized possession of, access to, or control over any document, writing, code book, signal book, sketch, photograph, photographic negative, blueprint, plan, map, model, instrument, appliance, or note relating to the national defense, or information relating to the national defense which information the possessor has reason to believe could be used to the injury of the United States or to the advantage of any foreign nation, willfully communicates, delivers, transmits or causes to be communicated, delivered, or transmitted, or attempts to communicate, deliver, transmit or cause to be communicated, delivered, or transmitted the same to any person not entitled to receive it, or willfully retains the same and fails to deliver it to the officer or employee of the United States entitled to receive it;

I’m mostly referring to Biden. Just having them breaks the law. Likely several statutes. Not to mention gross negligence in mishandling classified material. Like storing them in multiple places, an unsecured garage, likely that can be accessed by friends and family members inside the house.

 

[JasperL]

Alternate electors arent the issue...using them illegally is.

It wasnt "turned into a crime," it was done in an illegal manner. It can be done legally...but they chose otherwise. How is it you dont know this? Eastman was disbarred on the facts here. He, Meadows and Chesebro are all angling for plea deals to testify to save themselves. They, with mango MAGAt magnet, tried to get Pence to go along with it, and his own lawyers advised him against it. MMM was knowingly lying and demanding Pence do something he knew was part of that illegal scheme. Pence knew it too, that's why he refused.

“Today’s indictment serves as an important reminder: anyone who puts himself over the Constitution should never be President of the United States,” Pence said.

“But the American people deserve to know that President Trump and his advisers didn't just ask me to pause, they asked me to reject votes, return votes, essentially to overturn the election,” Pence continued. “And to keep faith with the oath that I made to the American people and to Almighty God, I rejected that out of hand and I did my duty that day.” link
Pence has said he'll testify to this as well.

You must be one of those so proud they ignored the Jan 6 hearings and missed all the testimony, evidence, emails, phone call transcripts, etc. Tsk tsk. You dont know what you dont know.

Thank you for that. I started a similar reply then just decided it wasn't worth the effort, but I'm glad you did it.

To be clear, I believe based on what I've read that at least SOME of the fake/alternate electors were in fact acting in good faith. Had they signed the documents, then after all the lawsuits lost, the election decided, their 'alternate' slates abandoned as moot, nothing happens.

The problem of course is Trump and minions then used those fake/alternate electors in a corrupt scheme to overturn the election. That scheme is what we're discussing, not the cases of those 'alternate' electors. I don't care much about them, actually. I suppose the lesson might be - don't trust Trump. He'll lie to you, use you, then throw you under the bus the moment you are no longer useful to him.

 

[Ikari]

I’m mostly referring to Biden. Just having them breaks the law. Likely several statutes. Not to mention gross negligence in mishandling classified material. Like storing them in multiple places, an unsecured garage, likely that can be accessed by friends and family members inside the house.

Politicians have long been given a break on mishandling classified material. Any normal person who did what Biden or Trump, or pretty much every major politician, has done would be in jail for that.

Trump wouldn't have been in trouble over any of this if he had just returned everything when asked to do so. The only real reason he got in trouble was because he was grandstanding his defiance and refused to return anything. This could have easily gone away if Trump just did what was asked of him when it was asked of him. As usual, the repercussions from this case fall to Trump's own actions.

 

[Callen]

I’m mostly referring to Biden. Just having them breaks the law. Likely several statutes. Not to mention gross negligence in mishandling classified material. Like storing them in multiple places, an unsecured garage, likely that can be accessed by friends and family members inside the house.

Yes but Trump wasn't charged with just having them either, nor was Pence. trump had hundreds, he was only charged for 30.

 

[Linuxcooldude]

IIRC, Hur said there was evidence, but that he recommended against prosecution as the jury would likely find Biden to be a sympathetic elderly man with a failing memory.




He is indeed. The authority for all classification flows from him.

Hurr actually said willfully retained classified documents.

 

[coyote505]

Warfare means doing war, doing the activities associated with war.
What does lawfare mean?
Seriously. No laws were changed to focus on Trump. Trump is being charged and prosecuted under the law as it's been for years. You lot just have your panties all knotted because it's your Dear Leader the law has been applied to.
Lawfare means the law shouldn't pursue everyone equally. Lawfare means some people shouldn't be troubled by the law.

And Soros is a major reason for Lawfare. Bragg probably wouldn't be in office without him, as is true for a large number of other DAs, in places like San Francisco. When Bragg's biggest campaign plank was "get Trump", how should anyone NOT believe that the great Bribery of a Hooker case is other than Lawfare?

 

[Linuxcooldude]

Yes but Trump wasn't charged with just having them either, nor was Pence. trump had hundreds, he was only charged for 30.

Yet Biden had them illegally for decades.

 

[Lursa]

Thank you for that. I started a similar reply then just decided it wasn't worth the effort, but I'm glad you did it.

To be clear, I believe based on what I've read that at least SOME of the fake/alternate electors were in fact acting in good faith. Had they signed the documents, then after all the lawsuits lost, the election decided, their 'alternate' slates abandoned as moot, nothing happens.

The problem of course is Trump and minions then used those fake/alternate electors in a corrupt scheme to overturn the election. That scheme is what we're discussing, not the cases of those 'alternate' electors. I don't care much about them, actually. I suppose the lesson might be - don't trust Trump. He'll lie to you, use you, then throw you under the bus the moment you are no longer useful to him.

Here's more info if you're interested. Interviews with some of the usual suspects, like Chesebro & Eastman. Clear admissions of the illegal aspects of the plan.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/08/09/politics/fake-electors-plot-trump-campaign-memo-chesebro/index.html

https://www.cnn.com/2023/06/21/politics/john-eastman-bar-hearing-trump/index.html

Navarro & Bannon:

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/01/25/...ytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare

Navarro in Rolling Stone interview

https://www.rollingstone.com/politi...ro-interview-jan-6-electoral-college-1277938/