Cliven Bundy, 4 others, face federal indictment in Nevada

[danarhea]

Bass players are not allowed to sing. It is unnatural.

I sang on TV before. And, BTW, Bob Seeger originally sang Heavy Music while playing bass.

 

[poweRob]

I sang on TV before. And, BTW, Bob Seeger originally sang Heavy Music while playing bass.

You, he and Geddy Lee... Blasphemy!


Actually when I was in a rock band I was the lead singer and the bass player would occassionly sing a song and I'd play bass in his stead.

 

[danarhea]

You, he and Geddy Lee... Blasphemy!


Actually when I was in a rock band I was the lead singer and the bass player would occassionly sing a song and I'd play bass in his stead.

It's difficult to play bass and sing at the same time. I can do it, but sometimes I struggle. My bandleader, Edison Freeman, can do it easily. I like to think I'm an excellent bass player, but he blows my doors off. He is one of the great ones. Was Stan West's bass player for 4 years, and was in a band called Kingdom, which made the Billboard Top 100. Lucky for me, he prefers to play guitar and keyboards. Otherwise, I wouldn't be in that band. LOL.

NOTE: Something else about Edison. He was Captain Heavy, Dr. Demento's first sidekick DJ on his radio show.

 

[poweRob]

It's difficult to play bass and sing at the same time. I can do it, but sometimes I struggle. My bandleader, Edison Freeman, can do it easily. I like to think I'm an excellent bass player, but he blows my doors off. He is one of the great ones. Was Stan West's bass player for 4 years, and was in a band called Kingdom, which made the Billboard Top 100. Lucky for me, he prefers to play guitar and keyboards. Otherwise, I wouldn't be in that band. LOL.

NOTE: Something else about Edison. He was Captain Heavy, Dr. Demento's first sidekick DJ on his radio show.

Way cool Dan.

 

[RetiredUSN]

What a lot of people are not taking serious, is the federal land grab.

Cliven Bundy and his ilk might be some sorry assed individuals, but there are other honest ranchers out there who are falling victim to invasive government practices on land management and charges on grazing.

Some of the posts on here are represent total ignorance with what is going on with the overall practices of the BLM.

 

[ChezC3]

Torytalk.

 

[ALiberalModerate]

yeah,I just found a link that goes over it a bit.....I think he'll be found guilty on 2 of the 6 charges, and walk on the others.

the US attorney, like many folks here , keep tryign to sell them as violent .. and charged them with 3 felonies based on violence..... violence that did not occur.
.

By that logic, if I walk into a liquor store while carrying a loaded shotgun, damage property in the store, and refused to leave for weeks and thus prevent the owner of that liquor store from running his business.... then I haven't committed any violence and should not be charged with a felony.

It's a good thing the law doesn't actually work like that.

 

[ALiberalModerate]

What a lot of people are not taking serious, is the federal land grab.

Cliven Bundy and his ilk might be some sorry assed individuals, but there are other honest ranchers out there who are falling victim to invasive government practices on land management and charges on grazing.

Some of the posts on here are represent total ignorance with what is going on with the overall practices of the BLM.

How is it a federal land grab when land the federal government (us taxpayers) have always owned is reclassified. For example, if you take national forest which is public land, or blm lands, which is public land, and designate part of it as a national monument, then that is hardly a federal land grab as the land has always been public to begin with.

Moreover, if a field biologist reports to a blm land manager that a tract of public land is being over grazed and thus the number of cattle per acre allowed to graze on it must be reduced for grazing to be sustainable on it, then that isn't a federal land grab either, its recognizing reality.

The fact is even the majority of the citizens of western states (including Nevada), oppose giving the states control over federal land. Poll shows majority in West opposes giving states control over federal land - LA Times

Why? Because they have sense enough to know that it would be a terrible idea for a variety of reasons. The only people that want that land sold off or transferred to the state are extremists like Bundy. Federal land management is far from perfect, but as any outdoorsman will tell you its a hell of a lot better than most state and local land management.

 

[Thrilla]

By that logic, if I walk into a liquor store while carrying a loaded shotgun, damage property in the store, and refused to leave for weeks and thus prevent the owner of that liquor store from running his business.... then I haven't committed any violence and should not be charged with a felony.

It's a good thing the law doesn't actually work like that.

well, there are some discrepancies in your characterization... and you'renot following my logic at all .....but Ill bite anyways.

now, it's evident you've certainly broken some laws.. no doubt about it.
but did you commit any violent acts that would qualify you for violent felonies?.... for your little story there, the answer would be no.


that's the problem with the whole " he's armed" thing..... being armed does not equate, in any universe, to violence.
utilizing that firearm in illegitimate ways , might, however.... such as brandishing the weapon, menacing people by waving it around... actaully shooting at someone .... those are violent acts.
hanging a shotgun across your back is NOT a violent act.

in your little story there, you'd be guilty of damaging property, criminal trespass... and assuming law enforcement has been tryign to get you to leave, you'd also be guilty of obstruction of the administration of justice.
depending on the specifics, any of those acts can be felonies... or they can be misdemeanors.
none of them are violent, however.

 

[lb_on_teh_cb]

Here's the other side of the story....

"... A woman charged with conspiracy for the prolonged takeover of a federal building in Oregon is suing federal employees for committing “the works of the devil” on her, and she wants billions of dollars for it — specifically, $666,666,666,666.66....

In her so-called “counter criminal complaint,” which Cox filed Wednesday independently of legal counsel, she says “arrogant, narcissi Federal Government officials” (sic) tried to “hijack” the Constitutional rights of her and her fellow armed occupiers....

The complaint says the government committed "the works of the devil" on Shawna Cox for her role in the weeks-long occupation of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge in Burns...

“I am being maliciously prosecuted by State and Federal Bar Association members because they do not want to be held accountable for their subversive activities against the people of the United States,” Cox writes in a bolded passage of the complaint.​

Woman charged for Oregon occupation files $666 billion suit - NY Daily News

yeah that one person sounds like a nutjob. i listened to audio of a fellow i think Ryan Bundy frm a youtube video and he sounded quite reasonable.

 

[HenryChinaski]

It's difficult to play bass and sing at the same time. I can do it, but sometimes I struggle. My bandleader, Edison Freeman, can do it easily. I like to think I'm an excellent bass player, but he blows my doors off. He is one of the great ones. Was Stan West's bass player for 4 years, and was in a band called Kingdom, which made the Billboard Top 100. Lucky for me, he prefers to play guitar and keyboards. Otherwise, I wouldn't be in that band. LOL.

NOTE: Something else about Edison. He was Captain Heavy, Dr. Demento's first sidekick DJ on his radio show.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=AYkgw5Pk1Ww
Unless you're singing and playing a doghouse base it doesn't count.

 

[danarhea]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=AYkgw5Pk1Ww
Unless you're singing and playing a doghouse base it doesn't count.

I also play a double bass. I have that, a rosewood neck 5 string Schecter, a maple neck 4 string Fender (for some of my slapping and popping), a 4 string fretless Alembic Tree of Life bass, a Rickenbacker 4002 4 string stereo bass, and a 4 string Force 8 bass with a Koehler tremolo system on it. Had a 6 string Schecter until not too long ago, but sold it after never playing it much. LOL. My 5 string Schecter is pretty much my bread and butter, though. Got a partridge in a pear tree too. LOL.

Edison has about 40 different instruments, which include basses (a double bass included), guitars, keyboards, an acoustic piano, a violin, and a drum set. He can play them all and sing at the same time. He can also play sax, but can't sing at the same time. Now THAT would impress the hell out of me. LOL.

BTW, nice video.

 

[Moot]

yeah that one person sounds like a nutjob. i listened to audio of a fellow i think Ryan Bundy frm a youtube video and he sounded quite reasonable.

I listened to an audio of Ryan Bundy explain what happened to his face. He sounded very reasonable and I really felt for the guy and was impressed by not only his candor but his ability to accept what happened and move on. Unfortunately, he moved on in the wrong direction.

 

[Lethargic Aptitude]

yeah that one person sounds like a nutjob. i listened to audio of a fellow i think Ryan Bundy frm a youtube video and he sounded quite reasonable.

Ironically Ted Bundy could sound reasonable as well.

 

[Chomsky]

Finally, charges have been brought against Cliven Bundy and 4 others for threatening the FBI during the standoff in Nevada last year.

Here are your patriots, folks. They are thugs, and they will be doing a whole lot of time in prison. Bundy will probably spend the rest of his life there. Serves them right. No matter what the hate radio talking heads bloviate from their fat mouths, these punks are not patriots. They are just common criminals who hate America. Let them rot.

Article is here.

Couldn't happen to a nicer bunch of guys!

Quite an array of charges:

"The charges against them and Cliven Bundy include: conspiracy to commit an offense against the United States, conspiracy to impede or injure a federal officer, weapon use and possession, assault on a federal officer, threatening a federal law enforcement officer, obstruction, extortion to interfere with commerce, and interstate travel in aid of extortion."

It seems these charges are from the 2014 NV standoff, and I would assume others would come from the recent Oregon standoff in time:

"The rule of law has been reaffirmed with these charges," said U.S. Attorney Bogden. "Persons who use force and violence against federal law enforcement officers who are enforcing court orders, and nearly causing catastrophic loss of life or injury to others, will be brought to justice."

Also, the feds are going after their property!

"Five counts of criminal forfeiture are also included in the indictment which would require the forfeiture of property derived from the proceeds of the crimes totaling at least $3 million, as well as the firearms and ammunition possessed and used on April 12, 2014."

That was very well written article in that it provided a historical perspective providing the big picture, was succinct, but also was detailed & informative. I wish more articles were like this!

 

[Chomsky]

How is it a federal land grab when land the federal government (us taxpayers) have always owned is reclassified. For example, if you take national forest which is public land, or blm lands, which is public land, and designate part of it as a national monument, then that is hardly a federal land grab as the land has always been public to begin with.

Moreover, if a field biologist reports to a blm land manager that a tract of public land is being over grazed and thus the number of cattle per acre allowed to graze on it must be reduced for grazing to be sustainable on it, then that isn't a federal land grab either, its recognizing reality.

The fact is even the majority of the citizens of western states (including Nevada), oppose giving the states control over federal land. Poll shows majority in West opposes giving states control over federal land - LA Times

Why? Because they have sense enough to know that it would be a terrible idea for a variety of reasons. The only people that want that land sold off or transferred to the state are extremists like Bundy. Federal land management is far from perfect, but as any outdoorsman will tell you its a hell of a lot better than most state and local land management.

I would add:

The States often willed these lands to be under fed control because they couldn't afford to manage them!

And the lack of adequate resources to manage them often continues until today.

 

[PoS]

well, there are some discrepancies in your characterization... and you'renot following my logic at all .....but Ill bite anyways.

now, it's evident you've certainly broken some laws.. no doubt about it.
but did you commit any violent acts that would qualify you for violent felonies?.... for your little story there, the answer would be no.


that's the problem with the whole " he's armed" thing..... being armed does not equate, in any universe, to violence.
utilizing that firearm in illegitimate ways , might, however.... such as brandishing the weapon, menacing people by waving it around... actaully shooting at someone .... those are violent acts.
hanging a shotgun across your back is NOT a violent act.

in your little story there, you'd be guilty of damaging property, criminal trespass... and assuming law enforcement has been tryign to get you to leave, you'd also be guilty of obstruction of the administration of justice.
depending on the specifics, any of those acts can be felonies... or they can be misdemeanors.
none of them are violent, however.

Thats like saying that terrorists who hijack a plane but dont fire their weapons are non-violent.

They were armed and they said they were willing to die. Thats a threat of violence right there.

 

[Chomsky]

Thats like saying that terrorists who hijack a plane but dont fire their weapons are non-violent.

They were armed and they said they were willing to die. Thats a threat of violence right there.

I noticed one of the charges that the Bundy clan was charged with, was 'assault'.

I suspect, but don't know, the assault charge may have risen from the pointing of their firearms at the federal officers.

In most states pointing a weapon at an individual is legally an assault. And for good cause.

There's an old adage we learn the first time we're taught to shoot and handle guns: "Never point a gun at anything you do not intend to shoot"!

That adage, and "Always assume every gun is loaded!", are the two basic introductory tenets always taught and expected to be acknowledged, before any knowledgeable person will allow a neophyte to touch any hardware.

I would claim pointing guns at cops (loaded or not) with fingers on the triggers, violates basic safe gun handling, as well as being illegal (to say nothing of stupid & dangerous to all involved, including the perps!).

 

[ajn678]

Let's hope they go away for the rest of their sorry, pathetic lives.

 

[Thrilla]

Thats like saying that terrorists who hijack a plane but dont fire their weapons are non-violent.

They were armed and they said they were willing to die. Thats a threat of violence right there.

no, it's really not like saying a hijack is nonviolent... it's literally nothing like that.
there must be a violent act of some sort in order ot hijack a plane....at the very least, a direct threat of violence.

in any event, despite your arguments to the contrary, being armed does not equate to violence.... if it did, every concealed carrier would be arrested for violent felonies..every armed security guard or armored truck driver as well.

neither being armed or saying you are willing to die is a threat of violence...neither is saying you will defend yourself...... none of those are sufficient to charge a violent felony, let alone convict.


there is nothing violent about carrying a firearm.. .period, end of story.

 

[Thrilla]

I noticed one of the charges that the Bundy clan was charged with, was 'assault'.

I suspect, but don't know, the assault charge may have risen from the pointing of their firearms at the federal officers.

In most states pointing a weapon at an individual is legally an assault. And for good cause.

There's an old adage we learn the first time we're taught to shoot and handle guns: "Never point a gun at anything you do not intend to shoot"!

That adage, and "Always assume every gun is loaded!", are the two basic introductory tenets always taught and expected to be acknowledged, before any knowledgeable person will allow a neophyte to touch any hardware.

I would claim pointing guns at cops (loaded or not) with fingers on the triggers, violates basic safe gun handling, as well as being illegal (to say nothing of stupid & dangerous to all involved, including the perps!).

I think Bundy is being charged with conspiracy to commit assault on a law enforcement officer... because he's supposedly a ring leader, and someone in the ring pointed a gun.

if they charge him with assault, he'll walk on that charge.... depending on the arguments, he might get convicted of conspiracy, though

 

[Chomsky]

I think Bundy is being charged with conspiracy to commit assault on a law enforcement officer... because he's supposedly a ring leader, and someone in the ring pointed a gun.

if they charge him with assault, he'll walk on that charge.... depending on the arguments, he might get convicted of conspiracy, though

No, it seems they're hitting them directly with assault (if the article is to be believed):

"The charges against them and Cliven Bundy include: conspiracy to commit an offense against the United States, conspiracy to impede or injure a federal officer, weapon use and possession, assault on a federal officer, threatening a federal law enforcement officer, obstruction, extortion to interfere with commerce, and interstate travel in aid of extortion."

I was so incensed by them (the Bundy crowd) pulling guns on the cops, that when the subject came-up in another thread awhile back, I did some research. I researched this because I found it incredulous to believe one can train a gun on another, much less a police officer, without there being a crime. And sure enough, that's where I found-out aiming a gun at another person was legally considered 'assault' in most states. Not all, but most. In virtually every state it is a crime though, even when not classified as assault.

And the assault occurs even when no shots are fired or physical contact is made. It turns out in America one cannot generally aim guns at others without breaking the law. I also suspect the charges might be escalated when the assaulted is a LEO, but I haven't researched that. At the least, I'd bet the charges are dealt with more seriously when it's a cop being assaulted.

Now does this apply to Mr. Bundy or his boys? I don't know. But I earlier posited it's possible, and still believe so.

I'd also like to point-out the article lists the charges for them as a group, but does not list the specific charges for any single individual.

And I do think these guys are going-down on many of these charges.

 

[Thrilla]

No, it seems they're hitting them directly with assault (if the article is to be believed):

"The charges against them and Cliven Bundy include: conspiracy to commit an offense against the United States, conspiracy to impede or injure a federal officer, weapon use and possession, assault on a federal officer, threatening a federal law enforcement officer, obstruction, extortion to interfere with commerce, and interstate travel in aid of extortion."

I was so incensed by them (the Bundy crowd) pulling guns on the cops, that when the subject came-up in another thread awhile back, I did some research. I researched this because I found it incredulous to believe one can train a gun on another, much less a police officer, without there being a crime. And sure enough, that's where I found-out aiming a gun at another person was legally considered 'assault' in most states. Not all, but most. In virtually every state it is a crime though, even when not classified as assault.

And the assault occurs even when no shots are fired or physical contact is made. It turns out in America one cannot generally aim guns at others without breaking the law. I also suspect the charges might be escalated when the assaulted is a LEO, but I haven't researched that. At the least, I'd bet the charges are dealt with more seriously when it's a cop being assaulted.

Now does this apply to Mr. Bundy or his boys? I don't know. But I earlier posited it's possible, and still believe so.

I'd also like to point-out the article lists the charges for them as a group, but does not list the specific charges for any single individual.

And I do think these guys are going-down on many of these charges.

oh, in that case, he'll definitely walk on that charge.... it wasn't him pointing guns at anyone.

 

[Chomsky]

oh, in that case, he'll definitely walk on that charge.... it wasn't him pointing guns at anyone.

You might be right on that, but he might not even be charged with assault. I suspect the assault (if by firearm) would be for several of the other guys. Unless he verbally or physically threatened the cops.

I guess we'll just have to see how this plays-out, but I do think he's in serious trouble with the feds both criminally & civilly. His criminal charge might end-up being conspiratorial, if I had to guess. His civil stuff will be the money he already owes, plus criminal forfeiture (if any).

 

[ALiberalModerate]

I would add:

The States often willed these lands to be under fed control because they couldn't afford to manage them!

And the lack of adequate resources to manage them often continues until today.

Yeah I have pointed that out in numerous threads that has came up in. The only states with large amounts of public lands under state ownership are those with high population densities and thus a large tax base - New York's Adirondack Park for example. The only western states with enough of a tax base to even remotely hope to manage a lot of state owned public land would be California, Washington, and possibly Colorado.