Zimmerman not guilty.

[Kal'Stang]

The problem with this is how does the person being followed know that its innocuous and not an assailant?

When do they decide its worth calling the cops? And will they have time to do so when they do?

The moment you feel threatened then call the cops. TM never even tried.

What happens if the follower is suddenly "RIGHT THERE!"?

Depends on what you mean by "RIGHT THERE!". If you are in feeling threatened and have a chance to then run, don't engage, run. And don't stop until you get someplace safe. TM did not do this. I know many claim that "maybe TM just didn't want Z knowing where he lived!" but quite frankly thats a cop out. Its alot safer behind closed doors than out in the open. And at least at home he had the backup of his friend. Not to mention there is evidence that TM had access to a gun from the pictures that were on his cell phone. Which since he didn't have it on him at that time was obviously at home. But even if he didn't have the gun with him at that home there are still other weapons he could have used to defend himself with...even if only a knife from the kitchen.

There HAS to be SOME limit to following others around. Its weird and threatening and usually perfectly legal.

The limit is if the person doing the following has ill intent.

It seems something like a proximity limit or a following while armed prohibition would be appropriate.

In this case a proximity limit would be worthless. Remember, Z lost sight of TM and it wasn't until TM approached Z that Z knew where TM was. Even TM's friend on the phone acknowledged that it was TM that first approached Z.

 

[mac]

I notice you use Zimmerman's last name and Martin's first name, similar to the prosecution who tried to portray Martin as a child. Interesting.

Nothing intentional, maybe I'm conditioned from hearing it that way.

Usually people who make such comments believe that Martin had every right to be where he was, when he was, and so didn't deserve to die. I'll agree with you on that one.

However, why is it that the same people never acknowledge that Zimmerman also had every right to be where he was, when he was, and didn't deserve to be attacked? After all, Zimmerman was a resident of the same complex - Martin was a temporary resident, but still a resident. But Zimmerman also was a neighborhood watchman for the complex, a position that carried with it a responsibility to look out for strangers in the area, because of the recent high incidence of crime in the complex. As such, didn't Zimmerman have the right to follow Martin if he didn't know him and didn't know his purpose there? Didn't Zimmerman, by virtue of being the neighborhood watchman, have the right, if not the authority, to try to find out who Martin was and what he was up to?

Clearly, the end result was tragic, but why is it that Zimmerman's right to be there, doing what he was doing, isn't even acknowledged let alone credited?

What is harder to describe is that Zimmerman wasn't just where he was. HE was following someone, and Trayvon knew he was being followed. Again, if I knew I was being followed, I'd get pretty jumpy. For all Trayvon knew, George was a gangbanger...

 

[mac]

Wrong guess.

Doubt it.

 

[Kal'Stang]

The "no apparent reason" thing has always troubled me. Seems out of character for M. He was ****ing up, but not that KIND of ****ing from anything anyones been able to find, if that makes sense.

Makes me suspect SOMETHING Z isn't telling us OR was unaware of was involved.

Which is why I feel Z bears SOME responsibility.

Actually it doesn't seem out of character to me. Between the pictures found on TM's phone, his online persona, and school records I have no doubt that TM was aggressive.

 

[mac]

The little punk spent 4 whole minutes running back around so he could attack Zimmerman, instead of running home. What do you have to say about that. He was out of sight for 4 minutes. Some athletes can run a mile in that time, so let say he could run a 1/2 mile. That's a 1/2 mile from Zimmerman.

He was barely 17, he didn't make the best decision. :shrug:

 

[Kal'Stang]

“F***ing punks. These assholes. They always get away." Why you so afraid to admit that Z was in a pissed mood. You that freaking biased?

Not saying that Z wasn't pissed but maybe Z was just irritated and not pissed? I personally tend to think that he was just irritated. The reason for this is that in much of the NEN call he presented a calm demeanor. If you're pissed you would not do that.

 

[American]

Nothing intentional, maybe I'm conditioned from hearing it that way.



What is harder to describe is that Zimmerman wasn't just where he was. HE was following someone, and Trayvon knew he was being followed. Again, if I knew I was being followed, I'd get pretty jumpy. For all Trayvon knew, George was a gangbanger...

Again you ignore the evidence for your own opinion.

 

[SMTA]

Doubt it.

Of course - haters just have to hate.

 

[Carleen]

Or, maybe if Martin hadn't been so confrontational, it wouldn't have happened.

That is an unknown factor in this. But we know for sure that it was suggested that George not follow. And this is a done deal so move on.

 

[CanadaJohn]

Nothing intentional, maybe I'm conditioned from hearing it that way.

What is harder to describe is that Zimmerman wasn't just where he was. HE was following someone, and Trayvon knew he was being followed. Again, if I knew I was being followed, I'd get pretty jumpy. For all Trayvon knew, George was a gangbanger...

1. As a neighborhood watchman, it is entirely natural and I'd say expected, that he would follow someone he didn't know who was walking around the complex he was watching/protecting.

2. I agree Martin may have been jumpy in such a scenario - he was, in effect, a guest in the complex and perhaps didn't know there was neighborhood watch or that there was a high incidence of crime in the complex recently. As I said on another thread, if I was in this complex, knowing the level of crime and the neighborhood watch program was in effect, I'd let my visiting son know the circumstances and warn him that he may have someone ask him what he's doing there and all he has to do is tell them he's staying with me at my place. Simple. And this would be particularly true when my son is a teen and going out at night. That's good parenting - giving your children the knowledge they need.

 

[What if...?]

Actually it doesn't seem out of character to me. Between the pictures found on TM's phone, his online persona, and school records I have no doubt that TM was aggressive.

You know, I went and read all those texts.

You should too.

You'll understand what the gun pics and referrents were about (getting a gun for a friend in danger from her fathers gun crazy girlfriend. Not the best solution, but she handled it on her own, gotta. 38 for a hundred dollars.)

And one reference to a fight, with rounds and a ref of some kind. Street fights don't have rounds.

Hell, even Wests paraphrase is off. M didn't say he only bloodied his nose and needed more. He said he would bloody his nose and that would be it.

All the rest of the "gangsta" stuff is clowing back and forth to friends. Seriously. Thsts it.

Out of literally thousands of texts examined and that's all they could find.

Check it out for yourself.

Defendants third supplemental discovery. On gzlegal and the conservative treehouse.

Then think about how much outrage there was over the deceptive editing from nbc about Z.

There isn't anything to suggest a tendency to attack strangers for no reason. Not one victim of Ms predatory violence has come forward for their fifteen minutes and a check. Zero.

Hell, arranging to fight someone with a ref to settle an issue sounds like a tendency to the honorable to me. A sense of fair play.

M actually sounds like a decent kid. ****ing up, but not worse than a lot of people I've known who came out all right.

Z too, at the end of the day. Decent, just got in out of his depth and somebody died because of those mistakes.

 

[davidtaylorjr]

Neither the first nor the last unjust and out-of-touch verdict by a jury.

If Z had any money, the family could sue for wrongful death. But Z ain't OJ. :mrgreen:

You are kidding right? This WAS justice!

 

[mac]

1. As a neighborhood watchman, it is entirely natural and I'd say expected, that he would follow someone he didn't know who was walking around the complex he was watching/protecting.

except that it is completely contrary to any neighborhood watch guidline in any city in America.

2. I agree Martin may have been jumpy in such a scenario - he was, in effect, a guest in the complex and perhaps didn't know there was neighborhood watch or that there was a high incidence of crime in the complex recently. As I said on another thread, if I was in this complex, knowing the level of crime and the neighborhood watch program was in effect, I'd let my visiting son know the circumstances and warn him that he may have someone ask him what he's doing there and all he has to do is tell them he's staying with me at my place. Simple. And this would be particularly true when my son is a teen and going out at night. That's good parenting - giving your children the knowledge they need.

Maybe. But it's also good parenting to tell your black son to watch his back when/if he's out at night. Not trying to play the race card (honestly) but there is a different standard (in this regard) in the US if you're black. Specially in a high crime area.

 

[mac]

Again you ignore the evidence for your own opinion.

What evidence am I ignoring?

 

[mac]

Of course - haters just have to hate.

Haters of what, exactly?

 

[CanadaJohn]

Maybe. But it's also good parenting to tell your black son to watch his back when/if he's out at night. Not trying to play the race card (honestly) but there is a different standard (in this regard) in the US if you're black. Specially in a high crime area.

I don't disagree - it's the same admonition a parent may give a daughter, of any race, when out at night. It's what good parents do. Just as I wouldn't expect my daughter to go up to strangers at night, a stranger who might grab her, rape and murder her, I wouldn't expect my black son to go up to strangers at night, a stranger who might be looking for trouble. But then, from all accounts, Martin wasn't a stranger to looking for trouble and greeting it head on.

 

[mac]

I don't disagree - it's the same admonition a parent may give a daughter, of any race, when out at night. It's what good parents do. Just as I wouldn't expect my daughter to go up to strangers at night, a stranger who might grab her, rape and murder her, I wouldn't expect my black son to go up to strangers at night, a stranger who might be looking for trouble. But then, from all accounts, Martin wasn't a stranger to looking for trouble and greeting it head on.

Keep in mind, the only surviving account of what happened was Zimmerman's account.

 

[CanadaJohn]

Keep in mind, the only surviving account of what happened was Zimmerman's account.

True enough - but even the jury saw through the prosecution attempt to portray Martin as a child, afraid of the dark - no innocent child I know refers to an adult they don't know as a "crazy ass cracker". And considering the young man's history, in such a short lifetime, I'm inclined to believe Zimmerman's account of the events. Even in the worst light, only a fool would believe that Zimmerman hunted down Martin and for no other reason than he was black and wearing a hoody purposely murdered him. I don't believe that for a second.

 

[mac]

True enough - but even the jury saw through the prosecution attempt to portray Martin as a child, afraid of the dark - no innocent child I know refers to an adult they don't know as a "crazy ass cracker". And considering the young man's history, in such a short lifetime, I'm inclined to believe Zimmerman's account of the events. Even in the worst light, only a fool would believe that Zimmerman hunted down Martin and for no other reason than he was black and wearing a hoody purposely murdered him. I don't believe that for a second.

I don't believe that either. I don't think race had anything to do with it. I do believe Zimmerman was a wannabe cop-douchebag-vigilante, though.

 

[plutonium]

George Zimmerman found not guilty

I still think that Zimmerman created the situation and Trayvon died as a result of that situation.

Well he did say "they always get away" I rest my case...please stay in your car.....this n-word was not going to get away as far as zimmerman was concerned. ..the next day he was at the doctor getting clearance to go back to work .. was not even tramatized at all ...i really think he tried to detain travon by force. and all travon saw was a cholo looking guy with a gun.......people from ca know what they look like

 

[ric27]

George Zimmerman found not guilty

I still think that Zimmerman created the situation and Trayvon died as a result of that situation.

What you *think*seems not to be the law in Florida.

Do some research

 

[mac]

Well he did say "they always get away" I rest my case...please stay in your car.....this n-word was not going to get away as far as zimmerman was concerned. ..the next day he was at the doctor getting clearance to go back to work .. was not even tramatized at all ...i really think he tried to detain travon by force. and all travon saw was a cholo looking guy with a gun.......people from ca know what they look like

This "n-word"? Really.

 

[SMTA]

George Zimmerman found not guilty

I still think that Zimmerman created the situation and Trayvon died as a result of that situation.

Very sad that, in spite of all of the evidence to the contrary, that you are unable to recognize the truth.

 

[mac]

Very sad that, in spite of all of the evidence to the contrary, that you are unable to recognize the truth.

I never said he was guilty of murder or manslaughter. He is guilty of instigating the encounter though. Very sad that your bias keeps you from seeing that.

 

[X Factor]

I don't believe that either. I don't think race had anything to do with it. I do believe Zimmerman was a wannabe cop-douchebag-vigilante, though.

Zim strikes me as a douche too. The thing is, you can support the verdict without even liking Zimmerman at all.