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...you're More Likely to Shoot a Loved One

jaeger19 said:
...we are living with less violent crime than the historical average....
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"There have been more mass shootings than days this year...the number of mass shootings across the U.S. thus far in 2019 has outpaced the number of days this year, according to a gun violence research group. This puts 2019 on pace to be the first year since 2016 with an average of more than one mass shooting a day...
As of September 1, which was the 244th day of the year, there have been 283 mass shootings in the U.S., according to data from the nonprofit Gun Violence Archive (GVA)..."



Mass shootings in U.S. 2019: There have been more mass shootings than days this year, according to Gun Violence Archive - CBS News



Yeah sure looks like live in less than violent times


...how is this possible if guns increase violence?
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Are you REALLY not getting it ?

Guns don't cause violence

Guns don't cause violence

Guns don't cause violence


People cause violence. Guns allow them to make the consequences so much worse, so much deadlier.


Got it ?
 
vegas giants said:
That is the stupidest freaking post I have ever seen. Lol
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Why...

YOU are the one that keeps making a big deal that the US have more "gun deaths".. than the rest of the world..

Well.. you are right.. Syria has less gun deaths than the US... so when do you plan to move to Syria to be "safer".

Do you actually think Syria is safer than the US?

IF not.. well then.. it pretty much proves how useless your statistic of gun deaths is.
 
calamity said:
Hmm...


I wonder if his daughter forgives him.



Reminds me of that old but true argument I've been making forever: If you own a gun, after shooting yourself, you are more likely to shoot a loved one.




Shakes head
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How many loved ones have you shot so far?
 
Rich2018 said:
"There have been more mass shootings than days this year...the number of mass shootings across the U.S. thus far in 2019 has outpaced the number of days this year, according to a gun violence research group. This puts 2019 on pace to be the first year since 2016 with an average of more than one mass shooting a day...
As of September 1, which was the 244th day of the year, there have been 283 mass shootings in the U.S., according to data from the nonprofit Gun Violence Archive (GVA)..."



Mass shootings in U.S. 2019: There have been more mass shootings than days this year, according to Gun Violence Archive - CBS News



Yeah sure looks like live in less than violent times
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Well. and there you illustrate the problem between the beliefs.... and facts.

Violent crime in the U.S. has fallen sharply over the past quarter century. The two most commonly cited sources of crime statistics in the U.S. both show a substantial decline in the violent crime rate since it peaked in the early 1990s. One is an annual report by the FBI of serious crimes reported to police in more than 18,500 jurisdictions around the country. The other is a nationally representative annual survey by the Bureau of Justice Statistics, which asks approximately 160,000 Americans ages 12 and older whether they were victims of crime, regardless of whether they reported those crimes to the police.
Using the FBI numbers, the violent crime rate fell 51% between 1993 and 2018. Using the BJS data, the rate fell 71% during that span
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There are facts.

eople cause violence. Guns allow them to make the consequences so much worse, so much deadlier.
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Actually no. Some of the worst mass killings were done with fertilizer.

however.. It makes so much more sense to concentrate on the people causing violence.. rather than on the tools they use.
 
jaeger19 said:
....you illustrate the problem between the beliefs.... and facts....
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Please go ahead and detail the problems that you perceive to exist


...there are facts....
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That the number of mass shootings is increasing....in the USA the number of mass shootings (as defined by Congress as 4 or more victims of the shooter, whether or not they survived) is almost one per DAY. And that's not violence ?


...actually no. Some of the worst mass killings were done with fertilizer....
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The statement is still true, people cause violence, guns allow them to make the consequences so much worse, so much deadlier. Remember wee're talking about mass shootings (with guns) not mass fertilizing


Now there are violent acts with knives, baseball bats and yes, even fertilizer based bombs. And guns would make the consequences of those attacks so much worse and deadlier. (Remember we're talking about mass attacks)




...however.. It makes so much more sense to concentrate on the people causing violence.. rather than on the tools they use.
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Concentrate on them when?
Sure, jail them if they survive, in the meantime ban guns so there are no mass shootings.
 
Woke up today to discover none of my dozen or so firearms have killed anyone.

Pretty good record for going on for more than 40 years.

I must have "magic" guns considering how willfully dangerous guns seem to be by all reports.:roll:
 
Court Jester said:
Woke up today to discover none of my dozen or so firearms have killed anyone.

Pretty good record for going on for more than 40 years.

I must have "magic" guns considering how willfully dangerous guns seem to be by all reports.:roll:
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You're full of wit.


So guns shouldn't be banned because YOU haven't attacked anyone with your guns for 40 years.

Is there anything that should be banned in the USA ?
 
Rich2018 said:
Please go ahead and detail the problems that you perceive to exist
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Sure..the problem is that people perceive that the US has become more dangerous.. and worse.. that somehow guns are to blame. When the facts are that both are untrue.

Public perceptions about crime in the U.S. often don’t align with the data. Opinion surveys regularly find that Americans believe crime is up nationally, even when the data shows it is down. In 18 of 22 Gallup surveys conducted between 1993 and 2018, at least six-in-ten Americans said there was more crime in the U.S. compared with the year before, despite the generally downward trend in national violent and property crime rates during most of that period.
Pew Research Center surveys have found a similar pattern. In a survey in late 2016, for instance, 57% of registered voters said crime in the U.S. had gotten worse since 2008, even though FBI and BJS data shows that violent and property crime rates declined by double-digit percentages during that span.
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That's a problem when reality does not meet up with public perception. When that happens.. lots of effort and resources are often wasted solving a problem.. that doesn't exist.. and that creates issues by distracting attention and resources from issues that do exist. Like the status of mental health treatment in this country. Like stopping the school to prison pipeline.. like the cost of college education, like our failing infrastructure... and so on.

That the number of mass shootings is increasing....in the USA the number of mass shootings (as defined by Congress as 4 or more victims of the shooter, whether or not they survived) is almost one per DAY. And that's not violence ?
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No..its not an actual increase in violence. Those mass shootings are included in the violent crime statistics. And violent crime is down. It doesn't signify any increase in danger or increase in violence. It signifies either changes in the definition of "mass shooting".. or it could mean a change in the manner of violence.

But being murdered singly.. or being murdered in a mass shooting.. doesn't really matter to the fellow being murdered. Whats more important to you... to live in a society.. where you are MORE likely to be murdered... but if its done..it won't be in a mass shooting..

Or live in a society that has much less chance of you being killed...but if it DOES happen..it could be in a mass shooting?

Myself.. I would opt for the society that is safer and I am less likely to be killed.

However,,,you may feel differently. I would then suggest you move to Syria where statistically they have much less "gun death"..than the US... so you can feel safer.

The statement is still true, people cause violence, guns allow them to make the consequences so much worse, so much deadlier. Remember wee're talking about mass shootings (with guns) not mass fertilizing
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No. we were talking about mass murder. Again it doesn't really matter to the person that's murdered.. whether it was from a firearm.. or a fertilizer bomb.
Obviously.. you are going to be more effective preventing EITHER murder..if you focus on the murderer.. and stop the murderer... rather than focusing on the method used.

Sure, jail them if they survive, in the meantime ban guns so there are no mass shootings.
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well.. for one there is no way that banning guns will stop mass shootings... particularly in the US.

We had an assault weapons ban for 10 years.. with a magazine ban.. and after study.. statistically it had no statistically significant effect on violence or crime.

We have had bans on marijuana. and other illicit drugs.. and even full outright bans.. with NO legal recourse for them.. and it hasn't really been effective in stopping folks from access.

So there really is no evidence what so ever that a ban in the US will stop anything except law abiding citizens from obtaining firearms
 
Rich2018 said:
You're full of wit.


So guns shouldn't be banned because YOU haven't attacked anyone with your guns for 40 years.

Is there anything that should be banned in the USA ?
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Actually, millions of other gun-owning Americans awoke to exactly the same thing today. Nearly all of us, as a matter of fact.
 
jaeger19 said:
Sure..the problem is that people perceive that the US has become more dangerous.. and worse.. that somehow guns are to blame. When the facts are that both are untrue....
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The USA is not as violent as it used to be in general but it does lead the world in gunshot wounds and mass shootings are on the rise


...lots of effort and resources are often wasted solving a problem.. that doesn't exist..
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The USA does have a gun problem though.

10,000 deaths (not including suicides) and 70,000+ gun related injuries per year is a problem
The first step in solving a problem recognizing that there is one

...those mass shootings are included in the violent crime statistics. And violent crime is down....
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Violent crime is down which is great

Now how do we get the almost daily mass shootings down ?


...but being murdered singly.. or being murdered in a mass shooting.. doesn't really matter to the fellow being murdered. Whats more important to you... to live in a society.. where you are MORE likely to be murdered... but if its done..it won't be in a mass shooting..
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Not sure what you're trying to say

Banning guns would stop mass shootings but would also stop many homicides and suicides IMO. It'd also prevent 70,000+ gun related woundings


...I would opt for the society that is safer and I am less likely to be killed....
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Me too, and I see a way forward to that goal as banning guns


...I would then suggest you move to Syria...
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And when I argue for Democratic Socialism, I'm invited to move to Venezuela

Question, did the founding fathers seek to leave the American colonies when the voiced their opinion that a change from British rule was necessary ?

Would you have suggested they leave ?


Is the new American way, when faced with an environment you don't like, to give up and move away ?

(how does the Constitution ever get amended if that's the case?)



...we were talking about mass murder. Again it doesn't really matter to the person that's murdered.. whether it was from a firearm.. or a fertilizer bomb....
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I was talking about mass shooting, please read back.

The proposition is to ban guns to stop shootings in general and mass shootings in particular. It isn't to stop homicides by other means, though I accept dead is dead.


If you want to ban fertilizer to stop bombings, go ahead and make your case.
 
Lursa said:
Actually, millions of other gun-owning Americans awoke to exactly the same thing today. Nearly all of us, as a matter of fact.
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Awoke to what ?

I asked: Is there anything that should be banned in the USA ?
 
Rich2018 said:
You're full of wit.


So guns shouldn't be banned because YOU haven't attacked anyone with your guns for 40 years.

Is there anything that should be banned in the USA ?
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Wearing your pants a few inches below your ass crack and spandex over the size Medium.
 
Rich2018 said:
Awoke to what ?

I asked: Is there anything that should be banned in the USA ?
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Awoke exactly as the poster who you responded to described.
 
Rich2018 said:
Because the consequences would amount to millions of people looking for recreation elsewhere.
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Because it would deny rights to too many people who aren't using a firearm in an illegal manner.
Because it's an unworkable solution. If someone is willing to kill over what street you live on , they are not going to obey a gun ban.
Because it woild limit citizens ability to protect their family and property and put them at the mercy of government agencies that have recently shot people in their own homes for not breaking any laws.
 
Rich2018 said:
The USA is not as violent as it used to be in general but it does lead the world in gunshot wounds and mass shootings are on the rise

.
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Sure.. because it has more guns... but again.. that shows just how invalid worrying about gunshot wounds and mass shootings are. Other countries have way less "gun deaths"..than the US..
BUT ARE FAR FAR FAR more dangerous.

The point being is that countries can both be very very safe...and still have firearms... like the US does. More firearms does not translate into being less safe.


10,000 deaths (not including suicides) and 70,000+ gun related injuries per year is a problem
The first step in solving a problem recognizing that there is one
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Its a problem.. just not with guns.

I get that you are obsessed with firearms.. thinking they are going to jump out and shoot people out of their own accord... but...

the truth is.. we don't have a problem with guns.

Now.. IF we applied that same rational and the same statistics to say.. bicycles... you would understand.

So.. there are two communities we look at.. one community uses bicycles.

The other community doesn't own any bicycles.

SO.. you when you study the two communities.. you look for incidence of bicycle accident.. and bike injury.

I look at the two communities and I look at overall accident rate.. severity of accident.. and perhaps age of mortality.

Surprise surprise… you find that between the two communities.. the community that uses bicycles... has more bike accidents and more bike injury.. than the community that doesn't use bicycles.

I find that the community that uses bicycles.. has fewer overall accidents.. has lower severity of accidents and its residents tend to live longer.


YOU conclude with your statistic that the community with bicycles has a "bike problem".. and you suggest banning bicycles..

I conclude that bicycles at the very least.. don't make the community statistically less safe.. and may offer benefits to the society.

Who is more likely right? You or me?

Now plug in firearms.. and use violent crimes.. vs "gun deaths.

anning guns would stop mass shootings but would also stop many homicides and suicides IMO. It'd also prevent 70,000+ gun related woundings
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There is no basis to believe that at all. First other countries.. notably japan.. have banned firearms..yet have a suicide rate higher than the US. (and before you go all..but but Japan is different. I note that you have compared the US to other countries and their "gun death).

So banning guns is no guarantee of preventing suicide.

Other countries have much higher gun control than we do..and much fewer "gun deaths"..yet have more violent crime than we do. The UK is an example.. Most studies show that the UK has at more violent crime than the US.

Further..in the US.. we had a gun ban.. we banned assault weapons and high capacity magazines for 10 years... when they studied the effect of the gun ban.. they found no statistically significant effect on violence crime or gun injury.

Also in the US.. we have banned marijuana.. banned cocaine.. and banned alcohol.. and largely have found that not only is banning not effective.. but that it also led to greater societal problems.
There is simply no evidence that banning firearms in the US will have any effect other than preventing law abiding citizens from owning firearms.

Is the new American way, when faced with an environment you don't like, to give up and move away ?
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Nope.. in fact.. the point I illustrated was just how invalid your statistics on gun death were. YOU pointed out that the US has a problem with violence because it has more gun death than other countries.

Yep.. we do.. we have more gun death than SYRIA. SO.. according to your premise. you should move to SYRIA..because its safer. NOW.. do you really believe that Syria is safer than the US?

IF not..it shows how invalid your statistic of "gun deaths".. actually is.

The proposition is to ban guns to stop shootings in general and mass shootings in particular.
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And as pointed out. there is absolutely no valid evidence to suggest that banning guns will stop shooting and mass shootings in particular. If anything, the effort in trying to ban them will result in all sorts of unintended bad consequences... just as we have seen with bans on alcohol.. and marijuana.
 
Rich2018 said:
You're full of wit.
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Thank You!

Rich2018 said:
So guns shouldn't be banned because YOU haven't attacked anyone with your guns for 40 years.
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No, actually they can't be banned because here in America because we have a constitutionally protected right to keep and bear arms.


Rich2018 said:
Is there anything that should be banned in the USA ?
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I would ban smart phones, but seems like only me and Quentin Tarantino agree with doing that.;)
 
Chillfolks said:
[/B]
Wearing your pants a few inches below your ass crack and spandex over the size Medium.
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ROTF!

I would add to that some bipartisan legislation defining who should actually be allowed to wear yoga pants and under which circumstances.

Because damn! Not every human body can shop at Bebe......:mrgreen:

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