You Guys Can Exhale Now!

[TurtleDude]

Ask them.

The ATF cite DOJ classification.

The fact is-until the yappers started whining after Vegas, Bump stocks were not considered to be banned under the moronic machine gun ban: which only applied to AUTOMATIC firearms

 

[Rich2018]

The fact is-until the yappers started whining after Vegas, Bump stocks were not considered to be banned under the moronic machine gun ban: which only applied to AUTOMATIC firearms

But they are now, by the organisation (ATF) who YOU said did not.

 

[TurtleDude]

But they are now, by the organisation (ATF) who YOU said did not.

you just don't get the obvious. For years bump stocks were sold legally because the ATF technical branch found that they (save for one which had a spring loaded device) DID NOT MAKE SEMI AUTOs into "machine guns" which were unconstitutionally banned with the idiotic Hughes Amendment. But after some nut job used Bumpstocks on several rifles to shoot a bunch of people, the yapping politicians caused the ATF to suddenly -using the same laws and regulations-to CHANGE their opinion.

 

[Rich2018]

you just don't get the obvious...

That the ATF categorize bump stocks as "automatic" as they fall under the definition of "machine guns" defined by the DOJ


Despite your (un-researched), wrong, claim that they don't

So now the ATF - on organisation you brought in the prove your points - actually contradicts it, you seek to demonize them as cowardly and maintain you were right all along



And you would have gotten away with it too is it were for them pesky official government agencies

 

[TurtleDude]

That the ATF categorize bump stocks as "automatic" as they fall under the definition of "machine guns" defined by the DOJ


Despite your (un-researched), wrong, claim that they don't

So now the ATF - on organisation you brought in the prove your points - actually contradicts it, you seek to demonize them as cowardly and maintain you were right all along



And you would have gotten away with it too is it were for them pesky official government agencies

'

And you ignore that they changed their view based not on technology, or fact but merely due to political pressure. and yes that was cowardly,.

 

[Rich2018]

'

And you ignore that they changed their view based not on technology, or fact but merely due to political pressure. and yes that was cowardly,.

So what.

You cited the ATF and their definition/classification as backing you

It does not and actually quite the reverse

Now you're dealing with your embarrassment at being proven wrong by attacking the organisation and saying they're cowardly for not having a definition/classification that back you.


Face it the DOJ and the ATF are the official view of the US government however much you personally disagree with them and call them names.

 

[TurtleDude]

So what.

You cited the ATF and their definition/classification as backing you

It does not and actually quite the reverse

Now you're dealing with your embarrassment at being proven wrong by attacking the organisation and saying they're cowardly for not having a definition/classification that back you.


Face it the DOJ and the ATF are the official view of the US government however much you personally disagree with them and call them names.

your reverence for a government bureaucracy that changed its position to expand an already unconstitutional law is touching. But your sycophantic worship of the ATF is hilarious and because you cannot explain why they were right the second time they tried to rule on the bump stock, we will put your worship down to political convenience

 

[Rich2018]

your reverence for a government bureaucracy that changed its position to expand an already unconstitutional law is touching. But your sycophantic worship of the ATF is hilarious and because you cannot explain why they were right the second time they tried to rule on the bump stock, we will put your worship down to political convenience

Not reverence or worship as you put it just an acceptance that they represent an official view

And it must must added hat the ATF was first cited as a reference by YOU when you reverently worshiped their classification


...or to be informed that wasn't it and they instantly became "cowardly"


You are so funny.

 

[TurtleDude]

Not reverence or worship as you put it just an acceptance that they represent an official view

And it must must added hat the ATF was first cited as a reference by YOU when you reverently worshiped their classification


...or to be informed that wasn't it and they instantly became "cowardly"


You are so funny.

bump stocks DO NOT convert a semi auto into a fully auto.

 

[Rich2018]

bump stocks DO NOT convert a semi auto into a fully auto.

No, but they allow a semi-auto gun to have the potential to have automatic fire


As defined by the ATF and DOJ.

 

[TurtleDude]

No, but they allow a semi-auto gun to have the potential to have automatic fire


As defined by the ATF and DOJ.

stop lying. a bump stock allows a semi auto to fire at a higher rate of speed than a semi auto normally shoots. The rate of fire-of a bump stock-may even APPROACH normal fully automatic rates of fire. The ATF already ruled that bump stocks do not make semi autos fully automatic.

 

[Rich2018]

stop lying...

I know you're embarrassed at invoking the ATF only to find their classification contradict your claims and then calling the ATF "cowardly"

But you really should accept that the ATF and DOJ classify bump stock as illegal and outlawed them

Stop digging when you're in a hole of your own making.

 

[TurtleDude]

I know you're embarrassed at invoking the ATF only to find their classification contradict your claims and then calling the ATF "cowardly"

But you really should accept that the ATF and DOJ classify bump stock as illegal and outlawed them

Stop digging when you're in a hole of your own making.

you are upset that you don't understand terms like fully automatic and semi automatic and that is why your arguments are so stupid. You tried to claim that bump stocks convert a semi auto into a fully automatic weapon because you don't understand the difference. You cannot deal with the fact that you are ignorant of this issue. You also are unable to understand the difference between rate of fire and how that is accomplished.

Most gun banners are motivated by something other than a deep understanding of the things they want to ban. You are no exception

 

[Rich2018]

you are upset that you don't understand terms like fully automatic and semi automatic...

Oh I do understand and that's the most pathetic come back from you in a while - and that's quite a statement

...you tried to claim that bump stocks convert a semi auto into a fully automatic weapon...

Nope, merely that a bump stock can enable a semi-automatic gun to produce automatic fire

And consequently they are banned by the ATF and DOJ as they're classed as "machine guns" (which by definition ARE automatic guns).

 

[TurtleDude]

Oh I do understand and that's the most pathetic come back from you in a while - and that's quite a statement





Nope, merely that a bump stock can enable a semi-automatic gun to produce automatic fire

And consequently they are banned by the ATF and DOJ as they're classed as "machine guns" (which by definition ARE automatic guns).

more stupidity,. automatic fire comes from automatic weapons. SOME automatic weapons shoot at a SLOWER rate than some semi auto weapons can fire. You are confused again. all automatic weapons are machine guns but not all machine guns are automatic weapons.

 

[Rich2018]

more stupidity,. automatic fire comes from automatic weapons...

Unless fitted with something like a bump stock which can make a semi-automatic weapon fire automatic fire.

 

[TurtleDude]

Unless fitted with something like a bump stock which can make a semi-automatic weapon fire automatic fire.

more stupidity. you are confusing rate of fire with automatic fire.

try again

 

[Rich2018]

more stupidity. you are confusing rate of fire with automatic fire.

Nope, automatic fire is continuous fire with one trigger pull. Which is what a bump stock allows you to do.

Try again.

 

[TurtleDude]

Nope, automatic fire is continuous fire with one trigger pull. Which is what a bump stock allows you to do.

Try again.

wrong, the trigger actually resets after each shot.. If the trigger was actually fully depressed and not released, a bump fire stock would only allow one shot to be fired

a real automatic weapon means that one Depression of the trigger-with no subsequent reset, allows the entire magazine to be emptied. the bump stock has to allow the trigger to move forward after each shot.

 

[TurtleDude]

Semi automatic firearms and the disconnector

Shooting Illustrated | The Semi-Automatic Disconnector: How Does It Work?

some more information

Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Bump fire stocks are gun stocks that are specially designed to make bump firing easier, which assist semi-automatic firearms with somewhat mimicking the firing motion of fully automatic weapons but does not make the firearm automatic.[SUP][1][/SUP] Essentially, bump stocks assist rapid fire by "bumping" the trigger against one's finger (as opposed to one's finger pulling on the trigger) thus allowing the firearm's recoil, plus constant forward pressure by the non-shooting arm, to actuate the trigger

 

[Rich2018]

wrong, the trigger actually resets after each shot.. If the trigger was actually fully depressed and not released, a bump fire stock would only allow one shot to be fired

a real automatic weapon means that one Depression of the trigger-with no subsequent reset, allows the entire magazine to be emptied. the bump stock has to allow the trigger to move forward after each shot.

Yes so it is NOT an automtic weapon, but the shooter can release a continuous burst by one conscious trigger pull.

Hence the ATF and the DOJ classed bump stocks as machine guns (according to their own web page) and banned them

And I don't care what your opinion of the ATF is.


The fact is they class them completely the opposite of what YOU said they did when YOU yourself invoked the ATF'S classification of proof.

 

[TurtleDude]

Yes so it is NOT an automtic weapon, but the shooter can release a continuous burst by one conscious trigger pull.

Hence the ATF and the DOJ classed bump stocks as machine guns (according to their own web page) and banned them

And I don't care what your opinion of the ATF is.


The fact is they class them completely the opposite of what YOU said they did when YOU yourself invoked the ATF'S classification of proof.

you are not being truthful. I said from DAY ONE that bump stocks don't turn semi autos into autos. I believe you claimed they did.

 

[Rich2018]

you are not being truthful. I said from DAY ONE that bump stocks don't turn semi autos into autos. I believe you claimed they did.

I don't think I did.

A bump stock is capable of allowing a semi-auto weapon shoot automatic.

This is why the ATF and DOJ have classed them as machine guns and banned them (despite your invoking of the ATF's classification that the do not).

 

[TurtleDude]

I don't think I did.

A bump stock is capable of allowing a semi-auto weapon shoot automatic.

This is why the ATF and DOJ have classed them as machine guns and banned them (despite your invoking of the ATF's classification that the do not).

compare that claim to this

Yes so it is NOT an automtic weapon, but the shooter can release a continuous burst by one conscious trigger pull.

Hence the ATF and the DOJ classed bump stocks as machine guns (according to their own web page) and banned them

And I don't care what your opinion of the ATF is.


The fact is they class them completely the opposite of what YOU said they did when YOU yourself invoked the ATF'S classification of proof.

this is what happens when you don't understand the subject matter and you get caught up in your lies.

An honest answer would be this: bump fire stocks allow casual users to fire a semi automatic firearm at rates of fire that can APPROACH true automatic weapons fire.

 

[Rich2018]

compare that claim to this




this is what happens when you don't understand the subject matter and you get caught up in your lies.

An honest answer would be this: bump fire stocks allow casual users to fire a semi automatic firearm at rates of fire that can APPROACH true automatic weapons fire.

Where is the contradiction ?

A bump stock CAN allow a semi-automatic gun shoot automatic fire

Automatic fire is a continuous burst of rounds from a single pull of the trigger.

A bump stock allows this and this is why the ATF and DOJ class bump stocks as machine guns and automatic weapons and consequently banned them



This is despite you quoted the ATF as a source that did not make this classification until I pointed out to you that it did - you had a OLD reference. It was a this point when you ceased regarding the ATF as a credible source backing you up, and instead branded them as "cowardly".

Amazing how fast a source like the ATF changed status from an expert and unimpeachable source of truth to being wrong and "cowardly".

And you are shocked the your claims of being a lawyer with 30 years of prosecution experience is questioned ?