You don’t know how bad it is

[Atomic Kid]

It is obvious this virus kills and those who are the most vulnerable are the elderly and those with underlying health problems.

I can only speak about my state Ohio because that is what I have been following.

When Anthony Fauci, Deborah Birx etc. produced their first model the picture it painted was devastating. It was upon their first model governors started speculating how many people in their state at that time had the virus. Governor Dewine and his Ohio Health Director Amy Acton issued a warning that they believed we had at least 100,000 cases within the state of over 8 million people and it was on that model that the governor ordered all schools, colleges, universities closed, then all sporting, concert events, all restaurants and bars and banned all gatherings more than 10 people. Then he banned all gatherings and pretty much shut everything down except for needed services for survival. And then this week he ordered all grocery stores start practicing social distancing. Today it took people shopping about 2 hours in the store. They had blue lines 6 feet apart on the sidewalk outside the store. The line was very long. Since the beginning to now those models have been revised 4 times lowering their predictions each time immensely and by those numbers we in Ohio never had 100,000 active cases of the virus. It proves out after massive testing to date we have 5,515 confirmed cases. A far cry from 100,000. And the deaths in Ohio from the virus , 97% are from those over the age of 60 and many with underlying health conditions.

We are talking Medicare persons which I am one. It seems to me shutting everything down and taking people's livelihoods away is criminal. My suggestion is since the greatest at risk are Medicare persons, let Medicare provide each individual with the respirator masks, hand sanitizer and gloves to go out to get what they need being protected and let everyone else get on with life. Because this ain't living.

The shutdown has managed to stop the healthcare systems from being overloaded for most of the country. But this can not continue. Protect the vulnerable and let everyone else get back to living.

What a block of utter ignorance. The models are being revised because the social distancing measures being undertaken by the states in absence of the federal government are having an effect. This Presidents downplaying and denial of the threat this virus posed for a critically lost 70 days that has now resulted in over 460,000 cases and over 16,000 American deaths, at least, is what is truly criminal.

 

[Atomic Kid]

Which is actually the definition of hysteria.

We knew early on (from Italy) that the Coronavirus is the most aggressive with old people; later on we added "especially the ones with underlying problems".

We tested so far 2.5 million, of which 1/5 tested positive for the virus but that doesn't mean they all exhibit symptoms, let alone occupy a hospital bed.
The death rate is presently 50 per 1 million and I believe will go much lower the more people get tested.

I tend to believe Dr. Carson when he says: "... between one-quarter and one-half of all people infected with coronavirus are asymptomatic. ... not enough public attention is being paid to "the number of people who have recovered" from coronavirus" -- which Carson said "is going to be about 98 percent of all the people who get it."

Chances are zero that the majority - let alone the whole staff - of an entire factory ends up sick ... unless all the workers are old and/or with underlying health problems.

Do you realize that we have only tested just 1% of of our population in this country? And please don't listen to 'Dr' Carson. He's a mindless sycophant.

 

[vesper]

What a block of utter ignorance. The models are being revised because the social distancing measures being undertaken by the states in absence of the federal government are having an effect. This Presidents downplaying and denial of the threat this virus posed for a critically lost 70 days that has now resulted in over 460,000 cases and over 16,000 American deaths, at least, is what was truly criminal.

Maybe you missed the OP's part that he was not wanting this to be political. He is genuinely concerned. I was sharing what has happened in my state so if someone is talking utter ignorance it would be you!

 

[DiAnna]

Thank you, Di, but this isn't even the half of it...

https://www.debatepolitics.com/poll...ue-coronavirus-pandemic-4.html#post1071644947

Yikes. I am so very sorry to hear this. Please let us know how this turns out. *hugs*

 

[joko104]

So what did you see, Jet?

It's a teaser OP hoping you beg him to tell what he "saw today."

A you tube link?

 

[Barnacle]

Do you realize that we have only tested just 1% of of our population in this country? And please don't listen to 'Dr' Carson. He's a mindless sycophant.

Which means the death rate is going to be even lower than 50/million.

With regard to Dr. Ben Carson, the "mindless sycophant":

As a pioneer in neurosurgery, Carson's achievements include performing the only successful separation of conjoined twins joined at the back of the head; performing the first successful neurosurgical procedure on a fetus inside the womb; performing the first completely successful separation of type-2 vertical craniopagus twins; developing new methods to treat brain-stem tumors; and revitalizing hemispherectomy techniques for controlling seizures.[4][5][6][7] He became the youngest chief of pediatric neurosurgery in the country at age 33.[6] Carson has received more than 60 honorary doctorate degrees, numerous national merit citations, and written over 100 neurosurgical publications.[8] In 2001, he was named by CNN and TIME magazine as one of the nation's 20 foremost physicians and scientists, and was selected by the Library of Congress as one of 89 "Living Legends" on its 200th anniversary.[5] In 2008, Carson was bestowed the Presidential Medal of Freedom, the highest civilian award in the United States.[9] In 2010, he was elected into the National Academy of Medicine.[10] He was Professor of Neurosurgery, Oncology, Plastic Surgery and Pediatrics at the Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine.[11]


I would feel truly honored if I ever had the chance to meet that "mindless sycophant".

 

[Fiddytree]

I don't believe you. From your messages it seems that is exactly what you hope as a political tactic against President Trump.

Man, sit your ass down.

 

[Atomic Kid]

Maybe you missed the OP's part that he was not wanting this to be political. He is genuinely concerned. I was sharing what has happened in my state so if someone is talking utter ignorance it would be you!

But that didn't stop you from making political, did it? BTW which party was it that was opposed expanding Medicare? And seeing as though that we have a Republican President and Senate who do you think it is that could provide these people with masks, gloves, and hand sanitizer, if they were so inclined to do so? But Trump says he and the federal government aren't 'shipping clerks'. So the states are all on their own. My state as a result is in the same boat as your own . So what do you say you get a ****ing clue?

 

[joko104]

But that didn't stop you from making political, did it? BTW which party was it that was opposed expanding Medicare? And seeing as though that we have a Republican President and Senate who do you think it is that could provide these people with masks, gloves, and hand sanitizer, if they were so inclined to do so? But Trump says he and the federal government aren't 'shipping clerks'. So the states are all on their own. My state as a result is in the same boat as your own . So what do you say you get a ****ing clue?

The OPer has made it political from the get-go. Reminds me off all the people posting "I was a Republican but..." and the goes into a progressive Democrat rant on behalf of every agenda of the Democratic Party.

 

[Mongidig]

I skipped to the end. Is this an infomercial? What's he selling? Masks, survival kits, what?

 

[joko104]

Nah.

The prescription eyeglass industry is dominated globally by just a few corporations. On line places like Warbly are only capable of serving a small subset of customers who want cheap, single vision glasses and are only offered in a very narrow power range and the cheapest material.

Everybody else goes to an independent eye clinic or a retail chain like Lens Crafters, Pearl, Vision Works, etc... This is who we make glasses for.

Few people understand that. Thousands of businesses - brick and mortar and online - sell products that we sell - and we make. At least 90% those other companies actually are selling our product. We'll even get emails explain how this company's product is awful but another company's product is great - and in fact both were our product we private labeled for both. We offer private labeling in their company's name for free even on the smallest scale. 12 or 1000 or however many that is.

Dentures, partials and implants are the same way too.

 

[Atomic Kid]

Which means the death rate is going to be even lower than 50/million.

With regard to Dr. Ben Carson, the "mindless sycophant":

As a pioneer in neurosurgery, Carson's achievements include performing the only successful separation of conjoined twins joined at the back of the head; performing the first successful neurosurgical procedure on a fetus inside the womb; performing the first completely successful separation of type-2 vertical craniopagus twins; developing new methods to treat brain-stem tumors; and revitalizing hemispherectomy techniques for controlling seizures.[4][5][6][7] He became the youngest chief of pediatric neurosurgery in the country at age 33.[6] Carson has received more than 60 honorary doctorate degrees, numerous national merit citations, and written over 100 neurosurgical publications.[8] In 2001, he was named by CNN and TIME magazine as one of the nation's 20 foremost physicians and scientists, and was selected by the Library of Congress as one of 89 "Living Legends" on its 200th anniversary.[5] In 2008, Carson was bestowed the Presidential Medal of Freedom, the highest civilian award in the United States.[9] In 2010, he was elected into the National Academy of Medicine.[10] He was Professor of Neurosurgery, Oncology, Plastic Surgery and Pediatrics at the Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine.[11]


I would feel truly honored if I ever had the chance to meet that "mindless sycophant".

Who said it was going to be 50 million? Not to mention we won't have any real idea just how bad or good things are without a larger testing capacity. And let's say that it that 1 million Americans die. Which I'm hopeful won't happen if we keep up with the social distancing measures. How would that somehow be a better outcome? That would still be a disaster. Heck, 16,000+ dead in just 3 months is already a disaster. And I don't see anything in Mr Carson's bio that has anything to do with epidemiology, much less managing public housing. Which he's failing miserably at as well.

 

[Atomic Kid]

I skipped to the end. Is this an infomercial? What's he selling? Masks, survival kits, what?

Jared is.

 

[Atomic Kid]

The OPer has made it political from the get-go. Reminds me off all the people posting "I was a Republican but..." and the goes into a progressive Democrat rant on behalf of every agenda of the Democratic Party.

Of course you would see it that way. What else is new with you? :lamo

 

[Bodi]

To understand that OP required empathy. For some people, this simple request is too much :shrug:

That is what I am thinking... listen and empathize.

 

[Bodi]

Ok.

I can’t be too specific here and you can call it anecdotal if you want, but I’m not here to play politics tonight.

I had an extremely sobering experience today the likes of which I have never had in my life, I actually have tears in my eyes writing this.

If you had seen and heard what I have over the past 12 hours you would freak the **** out and I’m largely speaking economically here, I can tell you that I don’t watch cable news but the written media which I do read constantly, if you think they’re being sensationalist, I can tell you they’re barely scratching the surface of what’s happening on the ground, they’re so focused on the stock market that everyone is missing what is happening at the ground level in the economy.

If I’m having the conversations I’m having, everyone up and down the economy in almost every sector are having similar ones and the ripple effects of what is about to happen I’m telling you, it is going to be catastrophic, so catastrophic that no single government can contain how bad this is going to get, even if weather plays a role the fact is that we may still have months ahead of us of this thing and in that time the damage will be enormous.

Today has shocked me to my core like you wouldn’t believe and medically look, I’m not an expert but with some of the stories we are hearing and seeing, the numbers in the next couple of weeks may very well explode in North America, both Canada and the United States.

I tell you this not to be sensationalist, I tell you this not to be scaremongering, I tell you this not to “Get Trump”, I tell you this because what I heard and saw today was so shocking I had to say something that if even one of you are more prepared for what’s coming than I’ve done something positive because I want to be wrong, I wanna laugh about this in a years time at this post and think how silly I was, but I won’t soon forget what happened today and how worried I am for the well being of my family in a way I’ve never felt before.

Remember, I want to be wrong.

Jet,

Stay safe and, I know this might sound silly, but smile. Smiling releases endorphins and serotonin which make us feel better. I learned this trick, to force a smile, even if things suck or stress is high as a food server/bartender (talk about stress) and a high-school teacher. I hope that you and your family are well.

Bodi

 

[NWRatCon]

There are a number of posters here who simply still cannot comprehend the scale of this situation. Nothing in our history compares to it directly. Nothing. I am an incredibly optimistic person, but I was shaken as well as I realized what was going to happen. We are only now, probably, at the beginning of the end of it, but the tail of this pandemic is going to be very long indeed.

 

[Hawkeye10]

There are a number of posters here who simply still cannot comprehend the scale of this situation. Nothing in our history compares to it directly. Nothing. I am an incredibly optimistic person, but I was shaken as well as I realized what was going to happen. We are only now, probably, at the beginning of the end of it, but the tail of this pandemic is going to be very long indeed.

People tend to be so very dim now, definitely more stupid than a lot of their ancestors...... not least those who let their minds be warped at the Failed University....I have been on this story for awhile.

 

[VanceMack]

Which is actually the definition of hysteria.

We knew early on (from Italy) that the Coronavirus is the most aggressive with old people; later on we added "especially the ones with underlying problems".

We tested so far 2.5 million, of which 1/5 tested positive for the virus but that doesn't mean they all exhibit symptoms, let alone occupy a hospital bed.
The death rate is presently 50 per 1 million and I believe will go much lower the more people get tested.

I tend to believe Dr. Carson when he says: "... between one-quarter and one-half of all people infected with coronavirus are asymptomatic. ... not enough public attention is being paid to "the number of people who have recovered" from coronavirus" -- which Carson said "is going to be about 98 percent of all the people who get it."

Chances are zero that the majority - let alone the whole staff - of an entire factory ends up sick ... unless all the workers are old and/or with underlying health problems.

Its not hysteria. In fact where we see the virus spread the fastest and worse is in areas where people are in close proximity to one another.

People that are asymptomatic are still contagious. And while I agree that there IS a point to emphasizing and learning from the number that have recovered...and learning from the demographics...that doesnt mean there isnt a value to controlling contact with the population...especially in the stages where we are learning what we can about it.

 

[PirateMk1]

There are a number of posters here who simply still cannot comprehend the scale of this situation. Nothing in our history compares to it directly. Nothing. I am an incredibly optimistic person, but I was shaken as well as I realized what was going to happen. We are only now, probably, at the beginning of the end of it, but the tail of this pandemic is going to be very long indeed.

We were ****ed as soon as we started closing doors. The longer this goes the more ****ed we are. Here is the sticky widget. We dont as a nation have the money or credit to get out of or weather this situation. There just aint enough. Right now what is going on is our government is being looted, before the door on the money is slammed shut. We are no where near the end. We are just getting started. Learn to embrace the suck. Venezuela is going to look like a paradise when this is over. We are definitely going to have an immigration problem. People leaving.

 

[snakestretcher]

You gotta remember I wrote that almost a month ago, before the **** truly hit the fan.

So I was in a different section at my company, which is travel related, the day this happened, I was suddenly due to what was happening put onto the line with the customers and as soon as I saw the scale of the problem and the amount of money we were losing, I just, I could not even process it, I actually kind of had to write that to cope with what I was seeing and the kind of conversations I was having, it was actually somewhat traumatizing.

I'm not ashamed to say I drove home in complete silence, I got home and I just... Broke, I cried uncontrollably, because you know like, I don't like to claim I'm good at anything, but I think I do understand a situation beyond just whats immediate, I knew looking at what I was dealing with that if we were losing that kind of money and dealing with a problem of this scale, that the rest of the economy was ****ing toast, I understood the gravity of the situation in that moment and it just, shook me to my core.





Barnacle, what in gods name at this point, would make you think, chances are I'm wrong?

Come over here, let me show you something:

Personally right now I'm more concerned with my health and staying well than worrying about the economy.

 

[Barnacle]

Who said it was going to be 50 million? Not to mention we won't have any real idea just how bad or good things are without a larger testing capacity. And let's say that it that 1 million Americans die. Which I'm hopeful won't happen if we keep up with the social distancing measures. How would that somehow be a better outcome? That would still be a disaster. Heck, 16,000+ dead in just 3 months is already a disaster. And I don't see anything in Mr Carson's bio that has anything to do with epidemiology, much less managing public housing. Which he's failing miserably at as well.

I don't know. Who did?

 

[sjmay]

Today I read several articles about the travel industry and how devastating COVID-19 has been for them. It's one industry but it is a good example of what people here are trying to explain to you.

Boeing has shut all its plants. Delta has parked about 50% of its fleet. Air travel is down by approximately 90%. That means fewer people working at airports; TSA, foodservice in air terminals and on-board flights, less soft drinks and less alcohol is being purchased, which means fewer deliveries, fewer servers, cooks and bartenders, and fewer in-flight food preparation.

With fewer flights less aircraft mechanics and refueling personnel are needed, less avionics specialists, less air crew are required, less reservationists are needed. Far fewer people are booking flights than were 4 months ago. Far fewer airport maintenance and house keeping are needed now. Fewer people are renting cars. There are fewer people who work in reservations, who provide vehicle maintenance and repair. Air traffic control, engineers, airport police are much fewer in number now. The list is endless.

Hotels are almost dead. From executives to housekeeping people have lost their jobs everywhere in the hotel industry in America. Just as with airlines the suppliers for the hotel industry are hurting big time. Businesses who supply hotels, sales and distribution and rail and trucking are hurting. Warehouses are sitting on inventory they can't sell.

I'm barely scratching the surface concerning that one industry alone. Many, many, many of the people who were employed as part of the travel industry are on the street looking for work.

I'm here to tell you when this pandemic is finally over the travel industry is in no way going to flip a switch and have everyone return to pre-pandemic employment. There is a big likelihood the travel industry will never be the same for decades, if ever.

That is one industry and we barely even covered it. Boeing alone employed 166,000 people. Millions of people in travel-related employment may be permanently out of work.

The world is not going to return to 100% of what it once was in your lifetime nor mine. Not even close.

Love this post, disagree with it, but at least it's grounded somewhat in reality.

You are right, the travel industry is going to take a hit, and it will take a bit longer to come back than most, but people said that after 9/11 and it was back within a year or so. People have short attention spans, 2 years after this is over, it will be back to where it is now.

Some industries, like you have said here, will take longer to get back, but for the vast majority of industries, it will be back to business like normal.....unless you are suggesting that businesses will continually run at 50% capacity

 

[NWRatCon]

Love this post, disagree with it, but at least it's grounded somewhat in reality.

You are right, the travel industry is going to take a hit, and it will take a bit longer to come back than most, but people said that after 9/11 and it was back within a year or so. People have short attention spans, 2 years after this is over, it will be back to where it is now.

Some industries, like you have said here, will take longer to get back, but for the vast majority of industries, it will be back to business like normal.....unless you are suggesting that businesses will continually run at 50% capacity

You are really making assumptions that are not borne out by experience. Let me provide another real-world, currently-happening experience:

I've been conversing with friends in the food industry. Flour and yeast are in short supply, and fresh fruits and vegetables are not shipping. Farmers have lost their primary markets (stores not ordering). They cannot afford to hire pickers, so the harvest is at a stand still. Plants can't wait. Fruits and vegetables are rotting in the fields. One failed crop can drive a farm under because their margins are so small. That is one industry.

My son works for a mom and pop small business. They have a two month margin. That's it. After that, they can't pay rent, suppliers or employees. They're 6 weeks into their margin. If they can't pay suppliers, they can't make product. Their employees are going elsewhere and may not come back. They can't just flip a switch. Most of their orders come from sports leagues, and award seasons (trophies, banners, parting gifts, etc.) Those events are not happening.

The stock market will rebound (somewhat), but is based upon big business. 48 percent of all US employees work for small businesses. That sector is going to be devastated.

 

[minnie616]

It's a teaser OP hoping you beg him to tell what he "saw today."

A you tube link?

I understand. I guess your only worry is it that it is hard for you to find plastic bottle makers to fill your orders.