Will we way better off without any form of government?

[lwf]

How would you call a group that ask you for your money,because they have build something and they need money now, but when you refuses to give that money, they will come to you and get into your house and steal things that are yours. Or, worse, they will kidnap you?

Come on, there is a name for that.

Sounds like you are referring to taxes (with a healthy dose of hyperbole.)

Another thought experiment: You live in a nice neighborhood where everyone chips in to have a landscaping company take care of the landscape in the neighborhood. Do you chip in your fair share? If not, why should you be entitled to enjoy the benefits of a nicely landscaped neighborhood that everyone else but you is paying for? Who are you to put yourself on a pedestal above your neighbors like that? What if everyone else decided to follow your lead and refuse to contribute to the good of the neighborhood? What do you think that would do to the value of your house?

 

[Palandro]

In democracies governments are neither 'flawless' nor 'deeply criminal'. I am sorry, there is no way around it, one day you will have to accept that you are being very, very silly.

"government" or better the idea of a 'government' is responsible for injecting more immoral behaviour in a society.

 

[Palandro]

Sounds like you are referring to taxes (with a healthy dose of hyperbole.)

Another thought experiment: You live in a nice neighborhood where everyone chips in to have a landscaping company take care of the landscape in the neighborhood. Do you chip in your fair share? If not, why should you be entitled to enjoy the benefits of a nicely landscaped neighborhood that everyone else but you is paying for? Who are you to put yourself on a pedestal above your neighbors like that? What if everyone else decided to follow your lead and refuse to contribute to the good of the neighborhood? What do you think that would do to the value of your house?

You are clearly missing the point. Only 'governnent' is in such a case to use 'force'.
So, something that is immoral, stealing someones money ( it is no hyperbole at all), suddenly seems to become moral if it is done by a 'government'.

Another example. If some people would ask you to go abroad, or for your son to go abroad and kill some people, you would think
that person is insane, and of course you won't do it, And run as hard away from that person as you can,
But when something called the 'government' ask people to do this, it isn't seen as immoral or insane.
Even worse, it will be seen by a lot of people as a moral thing to do!!!! People can even be proud of it!
Please see how 'destructive' 'government' is, it can make immoral behaviour seem to be moral!!!
This happens all the time, People are robbed from their money, people are being kidnapped and what have you.and if 'government does it is seems 'normal' to people. It isn't.
It's very crazy.

 

[Lursa]

You are clearly missing the point. Only 'governnent' is in such a case to use 'force'.
So, something that is immoral, stealing someones money ( it is no hyperbole at all), suddenly seems to become moral if it is done by a 'government'.

Another example. If some people would ask you to go abroad, or for your son to go abroad and kill some people, you would think
that person is insane, and of course you won't do it, And run as hard away from that person as you can,
But when something called the 'government' ask people to do this, it isn't seen as immoral or insane.
Even worse, it will be seen by a lot of people as a moral thing to do!!!! People can even be proud of it!
Please see how 'destructive' 'government' is, it can make immoral behaviour seem to be moral!!!
This happens all the time, People are robbed from their money, people are being kidnapped and what have you.and if 'government does it is seems 'normal' to people. It isn't.
It's very crazy.

What happens when another "destructive government" threatens and uses violence against your community?

This is the barely coherent and grammatically inept speech of a man who desperately wants to be able to claim that he "cured coronavirus."

That's it, in a nutshell. When we do get a handle on this crisis, he wants to be able to pull out footage and declare "I called it! I said use this! I said try this! I told them to do this, it was my idea!" He's just doing it with lots of stupid stuff because he doesnt want to miss an opportunity. He's afraid 'the big one' will be mentioned and he wont get credit for it.

It's all about declaring himself the savior of the cv crisis and we'll hear all about it, esp in his campaign. (Which is basically each of his press briefings these days) --- Lursa

 

[lwf]

You are clearly missing the point. Only 'governnent' is in such a case to use 'force'.
So, something that is immoral, stealing someones money ( it is no hyperbole at all), suddenly seems to become moral if it is done by a 'government'.

Another example. If some people would ask you to go abroad, or for your son to go abroad and kill some people, you would think
that person is insane, and of course you won't do it, And run as hard away from that person as you can,
But when something called the 'government' ask people to do this, it isn't seen as immoral or insane.
Even worse, it will be seen by a lot of people as a moral thing to do!!!! People can even be proud of it!
Please see how 'destructive' 'government' is, it can make immoral behaviour seem to be moral!!!
This happens all the time, People are robbed from their money, people are being kidnapped and what have you.and if 'government does it is seems 'normal' to people. It isn't.
It's very crazy.

But it's not robbery nor is it destructive. We agree to abide by these rules when we decide to live in a society. I agree to pay taxes and I agree to have an elected body decide what to do with them. I agree to be available for combat if my society requires me to defend it. I agree not to assault or murder other people in my society, and if I do I agree to face the consequences meted out by the justice system. And I agree that if I try to resist these consequences, people empowered with law enforcement responsibilities can force those consequences upon me.

If you don't agree, you don't have to live in society. Move to the Yukon and live off the land and you can be free from the rules the rest of us demand that you follow.

Some governments can do immoral things. But government in and of itself is not immoral.

 

[Palandro]

But it's not robbery nor is it destructive. We agree to abide by these rules when we decide to live in a society. I agree to pay taxes and I agree to have an elected body decide what to do with them. I agree to be available for combat if my society requires me to defend it. I agree not to assault or murder other people in my society, and if I do I agree to face the consequences meted out by the justice system. And I agree that if I try to resist these consequences, people empowered with law enforcement responsibilities can force those consequences upon me.

If you don't agree, you don't have to live in society. Move to the Yukon and live off the land and you can be free from the rules the rest of us demand that you follow.

Some governments can do immoral things. But government in and of itself is not immoral.

here we can see how deep the mind-control of the belief in governments goes.
I have no time now, but I will be come back on this.

 

[Palandro]

If you don't agree, you don't have to live in society. Move to the Yukon and live off the land and you can be free from the rules the rest of us demand that you follow.

I see, so if there is a mob in your neighbourhood, and they rob you of your money or threaten you , and you complain, they will just say that well, you live in this neighborhood, If you don't like what we (the mob) are doing to you, you have to move to aniother place.
Exactly what 'government' does. That is just crazy and immoral.

Some governments can do immoral things. But government in and of itself is not immoral.

Please read some history books.

 

[lwf]

I see, so if there is a mob in your neighbourhood, and they rob you of your money or threaten you , and you complain, they will just say that well, you live in this neighborhood, If you don't like what we (the mob) are doing to you, you have to move to aniother place.
Exactly what 'government' does. That is just crazy and immoral.

It's not crazy, it's democracy. :lol:

 

[Palandro]

It's not crazy, it's democracy. :lol:

it sure is not, but I want to come back at the question where 'government/authority" get it's 'authority" from?
That is really strange you see.

 

[lwf]

it sure is not, but I want to come back at the question where 'government/authority" get it's 'authority" from?
That is really strange you see.

In a democracy, government gets its authority from you and your neighbors. You get together and you arrive at a consensus on how it will work, and you nominate officers to enforce these rules. While it is possible that your neighbors may disagree with you and create laws that you don't want to follow, that is the cost of democracy. You agree to these terms because you don't want your crazy neighbor who thinks your wife is his soulmate to make the rules everyone has to live by without your input.

 

[vegas giants]

I think having a 'governent' is extremely destructive, and that we are really way beter off without any form of government. I understand this sounds absurd for a lot of people when they read this. But even any form of 'government' is logically impossible. Why? Because 'government' rest on 'authority' and "authority' is actually impossible. I am not referring to people who are an 'authority" in their field, but 'authority' that can use 'force" (e.g. police, military etc.)

Let's explore.

You are free to.live somewhere where government does not touch you.


Live off the grid in the mountains and government will not bother you.


But you dont. You like the internet and roads and running water

 

[Palandro]

In a democracy, government gets its authority from you and your neighbors. You get together and you arrive at a consensus on how it will work, and you nominate officers to enforce these rules. While it is possible that your neighbors may disagree with you and create laws that you don't want to follow, that is the cost of democracy. You agree to these terms because you don't want your crazy neighbor who thinks your wife is his soulmate to make the rules everyone has to live by without your input.

you think way too much of a 'government', lol

Anyway,

You wrote:

In a democracy, government gets its authority from you and your neighbors

Now, am I allowed to go to my neighbour and steal their money, because I mowned their lawn or whatever? And if they try to stop me can I then forcefully kidnap them till I got their money?
No, of course not. But if I, and others, have delegated our rights to the 'government' , how can the 'government' have rights I, and others, don't have? It can't! People can't delegate rights they don't have!

 

[Palandro]

You are free to.live somewhere where government does not touch you.

Impossible, there is 'government' (=slavery) all over the planet ( and it is getting worse)

And I have reacted earlier to this argument, did you read it?

 

[vegas giants]

you think way too much of a 'government', lol

Anyway,

You wrote:



Now, am I allowed to go to my neighbour and steal their money, because I mowned their lawn or whatever? And if they try to stop me can I then forcefully kidnap them till I got their money?
No, of course not. But if I, and others, have delegated our rights to the 'government' , how can the 'government' have rights I, and others, don't have? It can't! People can't delegate rights they don't have!

Then steal money from your neighbor and test your theory

 

[lwf]

Now, am I allowed to go to my neighbour and steal their money, because I mowned their lawn or whatever? And if they try to stop me can I then forcefully kidnap them till I got their money?
No, of course not. But if I, and others, have delegated our rights to the 'government' , how can the 'government' have rights I, and others, don't have? It can't! People can't delegate rights they don't have!

Without any form of government, of course you have that right. And so do they. If you don't want them to have that right, then how would you solve this situation without government?

 

[vegas giants]

Impossible, there is 'government' (=slavery) all over the planet ( and it is getting worse)

And I have reacted earlier to this argument, did you read it?

Then I guess you are screwed. Lol

 

[Tanngrisnir]

I think having a 'governent' is extremely destructive, and that we are really way beter off without any form of government. I understand this sounds absurd for a lot of people when they read this. But even any form of 'government' is logically impossible. Why? Because 'government' rest on 'authority' and "authority' is actually impossible. I am not referring to people who are an 'authority" in their field, but 'authority' that can use 'force" (e.g. police, military etc.)

Let's explore.

There is nothing to explore

Everything you just asserted is delusional.

 

[Palandro]

Without any form of government, of course you have that right. And so do they. If you don't want them to have that right, then how would you solve this situation without government?

of course you don't have that right. Any young child can tell you.

O boy, there is then the 'government" supported education. Well I won't even start. It is here clear to see why.

 

[lwf]

of course you don't have that right. Any young child can tell you.

Of course I do. Who is going to stop me? Why should I care what a young child thinks my rights are?

 

[Palandro]

Of course I do. Who is going to stop me? Why should I care what a young child thinks my rights are?

Let me ask you this, is it moral or immoral behavior?

 

[Palandro]

How come one is not arrested for drinking beer, but one can get arrested for smoking marihuana? How come? Where does this idiocy come from?
Ehhhhh.. The Government!

 

[Palandro]

There is nothing to explore

Everything you just asserted is delusional.

What exactly is delusional and can you also tell me why?

 

[ataraxia]

Let me ask you this, is it moral or immoral behavior?

“ If all were angels, no government would be necessary.“
-James Madison

I think this is the problem with the anarchist/libertarian mindset: they assume that everyone, even when they actually know what is moral, will actually do it. They sometimes don’t.

Even the local playground or swimming pool have clearly written rules and a means of enforcing them.

 

[Palandro]

“ If all were angels, no government would be necessary.“
-James Madison

Since humans aren't angels, NONE are fit to rule!

says it all, eh?!

 

[Palandro]

Talking about moral/immoral

Who do you think have done most murders and killing? People who blindly '' followed' 'government" or private persons?
Think ehhh government of usa, Hitler, Stalin etc .
Those sick people were harmless, but the 'believers' in 'goverment/authority" were certainly not.
The belief in 'government/authority" let good people do very very very bad things.