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Moderator's Warning: |
Notice the title of the thread? It's NOT about Obama or Christianity in the US. Stick to the topic or face the consequences. |
Moderator's Warning: |
Notice the title of the thread? It's NOT about Obama or Christianity in the US. Stick to the topic or face the consequences. |
The problem is, by now, it's impossible to make such a statement, as I have no idea what to expect from Trump.
I don't even know if he's interested in seriously making politics, rather than leaving most of the work to Pence and his advisors, and just show up for speeches here and there -- or if he actually means the things he said in the campaign. And I don't know which would be worse.
Could be anything -- he might end 70 years of the US as global power, by enforcing a new isolationism. He might do the contrary.
He might end the era of 300 years of liberal republicanism, by turning America into an authoritarian state, a "directed democracy" à la Russia. Or he might just divert with wild rhetorics from the fact that he leaves everything about as it is, as the elites sourrounding him want it to be.
He might end 50 years of civil rights movement, by once again making it fashionable to look down on non-white minorities, in allience with his neo-Nazi allies from Bannon's "Breitbart" -- or he might tame his rhetorics and not give these far-right forces real power.
He might sell out NATO and Europe to Russia in a new version of a Hitler-Stalin pact, or not.
I have just no idea whatsoever what to really expect from this man.
It is far too early to have any idea how history will judge Trump.
The problem is, by now, it's impossible to make such a statement, as I have no idea what to expect from Trump.
I don't even know if he's interested in seriously making politics, rather than leaving most of the work to Pence and his advisors, and just show up for speeches here and there -- or if he actually means the things he said in the campaign. And I don't know which would be worse.
Could be anything -- he might end 70 years of the US as global power, by enforcing a new isolationism. He might do the contrary.
He might end the era of 300 years of liberal republicanism, by turning America into an authoritarian state, a "directed democracy" à la Russia. Or he might just divert with wild rhetorics from the fact that he leaves everything about as it is, as the elites sourrounding him want it to be.
He might end 50 years of civil rights movement, by once again making it fashionable to look down on non-white minorities, in allience with his neo-Nazi allies from Bannon's "Breitbart" -- or he might tame his rhetorics and not give these far-right forces real power.
He might sell out NATO and Europe to Russia in a new version of a Hitler-Stalin pact, or not.
I have just no idea whatsoever what to really expect from this man.
This is my first post in this forum, so please forgive me if I'm going down a path which is already well trodden. I hope to learn a lot in this forum, and perhaps also contribute in a small way to the discussions.
I think of myself as an independent (neither party resonates with me enough that I want to be a member), I voted for Clinton, and was as surprised as anyone that Trump won the election. Clearly, my understanding of things was well off the mark! Seeing that we're in uncharted waters, I thought I better start paying attention and trying to learn who Trump is, so that I can better predict, at least in a broad sense, how the coming months and years might unfold under Trump's presidency. I'm finding that the more I study Trump, the more I like him and the more optimistic I am about our future with him. If I had to vote today, I think I'd vote for him. Reading 'The Art of the Deal' has shaped my understanding of Trump (he seems to be essentially the same person as he was three decades ago), and I recommend reading that book.
With all of that as preface, I've set up a poll to see what others think about how Trump will do as President.
I think you will get mostly very partisan answers, horrible from Clinton supporters, fantastic from Trump supporters.
Quite poor. I am afraid he is going to be a complete and total disaster, but let's hope I am wrong here. But someone who says what he wants to do but does not say how he thinks he is going to do that should have been forced out of the race. Someone who tells plain lies during the race should also be banned from the race. (Sadly enough, all candidates in all elections in all countries do exactly this...) And not much Trump of the sales pitch from the campaign time era is still standing. Most of it has been softened or simply cancelled. He is a business man. And a successful one for that. I do not believe that these are the skills we need for someone running the country. People that run a country should have vision, people skills and diplomacy skills. Trumps visions are too short sighted, he has got the social skills of a pregnant monkey and he has not shown any diplomatic skills as of yet. The only thing that gives me hope is an old saying we have in Holland. The soup is never eaten as hot as it is served. I'm afraid this is not too much to hold on to, but it's all I've got...
Joey
.. and yet he has repeatedly defied expectations by winning the nomination and then the election. Perhaps he knows some things and has some skills that his supposedly wiser critics lack? I too dismissed Trump for a long time, but I'm trying to be objective about this and I'm coming to understand the methods behind his apparent madness. Also, regarding his business experience and success, I believe it's highly relevant and applicable to being President, and if you have any business leadership experience yourself in a competitive and complex area, you'll know that it absolutely requires vision, people skills, and diplomacy skills. By comparison, let's face it, Obama had a rather thin resume when he took on this job (and I did vote for Obama both times, but with less enthusiasm the second time).
I hear you there and I agree to some level. Especially the skills required to become a successful businessman. But they are still not the skills that are required for a politician. Yes he needs vision, but a vision to make a company successful is not the same vision you need to make a country successful. Same with diplomacy and people skills. The government is not a company. You have to make decisions in the best interest of all the people in your country. And he does not give me the feeling that he is capable of doing that. Now I am not convinced that Hilary as an alternative would have been able to do that either, but that is not the discussion here at all.
Joey
I understand that argument, and have made that argument myself in the past. It seems almost obvious. But I'm coming around to the view that serious business experience may be one of the best means of preparation for this type of political job. While a country isn't a business, the skills involved in leading a country do overlap extensively with leading a large multifaceted group of businesses. My sense is that Trump is aiming to serve the interests of America - all Americans - with a realistic understanding that the relationships with other countries involve both collaboration and competition.
Clearly, some of Trump's rhetoric has made some Americans feel alienated from their own country, but IMO if one pays close attention to his words and tries to infer his intentions without bias against him, I don't think he's espousing racism, xenophobia, etc.
He wants to keep criminal illegal immigrants out, not stop all immigration, and he's not saying that all Mexicans are rapists, etc. He wants to keep Muslim extremist terrorists out, he's not saying that all Muslims are terrorists or potential terrorists, or that there should be a permanent ban on all Muslim immigration. He's saying that police officers do a difficult job which involves judgment calls in ambiguous time-pressured situations and puts their lives at risk, not that the police can do no wrong and that there aren't problems with black Americans being wrongly accused and sometimes tragically killed.
Getting back to the business experience aspect, I would also note that the vast majority of US politicians have been trained as lawyers. While I've worked well with lawyers and respect them, there's much evidence to indicate that when lawyers venture beyond their narrow specialty of practicing law, such as by going into business, they tend not to do too well.
My sense is that Trump is aiming to serve the interests of America - all Americans - with a realistic understanding that the relationships with other countries involve both collaboration and competition, so there's a lot of negotiation and deal-making involved, with all of the tactical aspects which come with that.
Although 19 is a small sample (and the poll isn't anonymous), the poll results so far aren't quite that polarized. Almost half think Trump will do quite poorly, but the others are distributed somewhat evenly among the other poll options. Overall, that may reflect uncertainty more than polarization.
I'd like to give him the chance the GOP never gave Obama. The GOP opposed everything Obama tried to do. With one party rule in WA stuff is going to get done. As you do, I sincerely hope it's good stuff!
he will be impeached very quickly. he will cause wwiii.
This is my first post in this forum, so please forgive me if I'm going down a path which is already well trodden. I hope to learn a lot in this forum, and perhaps also contribute in a small way to the discussions.
I think of myself as an independent (neither party resonates with me enough that I want to be a member), I voted for Clinton, and was as surprised as anyone that Trump won the election. Clearly, my understanding of things was well off the mark! Seeing that we're in uncharted waters, I thought I better start paying attention and trying to learn who Trump is, so that I can better predict, at least in a broad sense, how the coming months and years might unfold under Trump's presidency. I'm finding that the more I study Trump, the more I like him and the more optimistic I am about our future with him. If I had to vote today, I think I'd vote for him. Reading 'The Art of the Deal' has shaped my understanding of Trump (he seems to be essentially the same person as he was three decades ago), and I recommend reading that book.
With all of that as preface, I've set up a poll to see what others think about how Trump will do as President.
Schumer and Pelosi has said they plan to oppose everything proposed by both the republican congress and Trump...so what exactly is the difference. The only difference is the party of 'no' switched from red to blue.