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Why you’ll pay for Trump’s tax cut

Southern Dad said:
But that is the standard for the anti-Trump crowd. President Trump says something, they object immediately. Even if they agree with it.
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Did the left object to Trump going with the Schumer/Pelosi plan?

Did the far left object to Trump discarding the TPP?
 
Absentglare said:
bef8228b68a1d36955434f6b388f4897.jpg


We're supposed to believe that "The Heir" contributes so much more to the economy than "The Doctor" simply by parking their inherited wealth somewhere.
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This should be its own thread.
 
Herkamer63 said:
My question is what would be so wrong in paying less in taxes? Even though it's a different area, it's not that much different than people wanting to pay less on tv, food, cars, insurance, phone plans, games, movies, and the list goes on. "The wealthy will become more wealthy." Why are you so worried about the wealthy? "They use loopholes in our tax system and screw people." The first part is correct, but what's wrong with making more money? I don't hear the same people complain when they score big on their paychecks, whether it be a promotion at work or by other means. I guarantee they would NOT complain if they made the same as wealthy people and be ecstatic to see their taxes go down. Besides many of these "wealthy" people, are business owners. You know, the people that write our paychecks? If their taxes go down, they can afford to pay you more while lowering prices of whatever the business is (and they themselves can also earn their living). If you want to look at a REAL tax cheat, look no further than Crazy Bernie.
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Personally, I have no problem with someone making lots of money and having lower taxes, overall for everyone. The problem is over the fairness of the tax system. As Absentglare noted, the heir who has the same wealth as the doctor has far less of a tax burden than the doctor. We need to simplify our tax system in a way that ensures fairness. We may disagree on exactly what is fair, or what should be taxed, but I think most can agree that the heir should be paying at least as much as the doctor.
 
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Fenton said:
Lol ! Corporations have been offshoring their profits for years to avoid the second highest corporate tax rate among developed Nations
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I do agree, our corporate tax system is flawed as it can be avoided.

That is why our tax system should be based around land value and resource extraction. One cannot outsource the land. It is an unavoidable tax.
 
Geoist said:
I do agree, our corporate tax system is flawed as it can be avoided.

That is why our tax system should be based around land value and resource extraction. One cannot outsource the land. It is an unavoidable tax.
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Land value and rescource extraction ? Thats a new one for me. Care to explain ?

Use Appple for a example that offshores all their profits to Ireland
 
Geoist said:
Personally, I have no problem with someone making lots of money and having lower taxes, overall for everyone. The problem is over the fairness of the tax system. As Absentglare noted, the heir who has the same wealth as the doctor has far less of a tax burden than the doctor. We need to simplify our tax system in a way that ensures fairness. We may disagree on exactly what is fair, or what should be taxed, but I think most can agree that the heir should be paying at least as much as the doctor.
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They do, and even more so than what they should be, willing or unwilling (more common). They pay for the lower class's and some of the middle lower class's taxes. Some even overpay. During Rachel Maddow's flop on getting Trump on his taxes, it was revealed he was actually paying a much higher percentage than what he should be paying (I can't remember what it was, but it was in the ball park around of between 35-40%, maybe more). If you want fairness for our tax system, I'm not opposed to a flat tax rate. I like Ted Cruz's idea for making it a flat 10%, then there's no question. So if you're worried about a millionaire paying a lesser tax rate than a doctor, there you go. I'm gonna throw out numbers, but if the doctor makes $100,000 a year, with a the flat tax rate of 10% he would pay $10,000. For a millionaire making $1,000,000, he would pay $100,000. To me, that's fair.

I'd go a step further, though, and eliminate the federal income tax. I don't think it's fair at all to punish anyone's financial success (big or small). That should be a state affair when it comes to those kinds of taxes, not a federal one. Even then, an income tax only causes damage to someone's pocket, not fix. Besides, it goes into the pocket of government officials like Crazy Bernie. Taking him as an example, it was also revealed that Crazy Bernie only paid around a 12% tax rate, and he's a millionaire. Of course, you want to talk about corporate tax cheats, Mark Zuckerburg denounces his citizenship around tax time, every year, and moves out of the country until tax season is done, then flies back. If I'm not mistaken, the federal government is already on his case about that, and he owes much in taxes for Facebook (this would be one of the only times where the feds get involved). To this day, I don't think he's paid yet. Both Crazy Bernie and Zuckerburg are the type of people that really do need to get in line with everyone else. So yes, those are the people that need to pay as much as the doctor. Not much worse out there than tax cheats like them when it comes to taxes.
 
Herkamer63 said:
They do, and even more so than what they should be, willing or unwilling (more common). They pay for the lower class's and some of the middle lower class's taxes. Some even overpay. During Rachel Maddow's flop on getting Trump on his taxes, it was revealed he was actually paying a much higher percentage than what he should be paying (I can't remember what it was, but it was in the ball park around of between 35-40%, maybe more). If you want fairness for our tax system, I'm not opposed to a flat tax rate. I like Ted Cruz's idea for making it a flat 10%, then there's no question. So if you're worried about a millionaire paying a lesser tax rate than a doctor, there you go. I'm gonna throw out numbers, but if the doctor makes $100,000 a year, with a the flat tax rate of 10% he would pay $10,000. For a millionaire making $1,000,000, he would pay $100,000. To me, that's fair.

I'd go a step further, though, and eliminate the federal income tax. I don't think it's fair at all to punish anyone's financial success (big or small). That should be a state affair when it comes to those kinds of taxes, not a federal one. Even then, an income tax only causes damage to someone's pocket, not fix. Besides, it goes into the pocket of government officials like Crazy Bernie. Taking him as an example, it was also revealed that Crazy Bernie only paid around a 12% tax rate, and he's a millionaire. Of course, you want to talk about corporate tax cheats, Mark Zuckerburg denounces his citizenship around tax time, every year, and moves out of the country until tax season is done, then flies back. If I'm not mistaken, the federal government is already on his case about that, and he owes much in taxes for Facebook (this would be one of the only times where the feds get involved). To this day, I don't think he's paid yet. Both Crazy Bernie and Zuckerburg are the type of people that really do need to get in line with everyone else. So yes, those are the people that need to pay as much as the doctor. Not much worse out there than tax cheats like them when it comes to taxes.
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I will say though we do agree making more money and lowering taxes for everyone is a good thing.
 
Fenton said:
Land value and rescource extraction ? Thats a new one for me. Care to explain ?
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Land value tax is levied on the unimproved value of the land, meaning you pay a percent of the land's value minus any improvements (e.g. buildings). It is meant to replace your standard property tax (and, ultimately, just about all other taxes). It discourages speculation and encourages productivity so long as the tax is high enough to discourage speculation.


Use Appple for a example that offshores all their profits to Ireland
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LVTers do not care to tax profits. We care only to tax the privatization of mother nature. The reduction of deadweight loss taxes combined with a LVT system would ensure a productive and stable economy without the boom/bust generated by speculators.
 
Southern Dad said:
Yet, they pay zero percent or less in federal income tax. Something that you want to avoid mentioning.
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I didn't avoid mentioning it. You said they paid no taxes. That is blatantly false, unless you want to argue that federal income tax is the only one that counts. :doh
 
Geoist said:
Personally, I have no problem with someone making lots of money and having lower taxes, overall for everyone. The problem is over the fairness of the tax system. As Absentglare noted, the heir who has the same wealth as the doctor has far less of a tax burden than the doctor. We need to simplify our tax system in a way that ensures fairness. We may disagree on exactly what is fair, or what should be taxed, but I think most can agree that the heir should be paying at least as much as the doctor.
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If you are going to insure fairness, you start with the 50% that pay no income tax at all. How is that fair?
 
Herkamer63 said:
They do, and even more so than what they should be, willing or unwilling (more common). They pay for the lower class's and some of the middle lower class's taxes. Some even overpay. During Rachel Maddow's flop on getting Trump on his taxes, it was revealed he was actually paying a much higher percentage than what he should be paying (I can't remember what it was, but it was in the ball park around of between 35-40%, maybe more). If you want fairness for our tax system, I'm not opposed to a flat tax rate. I like Ted Cruz's idea for making it a flat 10%, then there's no question. So if you're worried about a millionaire paying a lesser tax rate than a doctor, there you go. I'm gonna throw out numbers, but if the doctor makes $100,000 a year, with a the flat tax rate of 10% he would pay $10,000. For a millionaire making $1,000,000, he would pay $100,000. To me, that's fair.
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I do not see the flat tax as fair. For example, 10% of $25,000 is far more impactful on an individual's living than 10% of $1,000,000. Tell me, would it be easier to live on $22,500 per year... or $900,000 per year? That is why, if we are to have an income tax, then the progressive income tax is the way to go. Personally, I would get rid of income tax and replace it with LVT, but we don't live in my world.
 
jimbo said:
Your chart and the article say nothing about the poor paying taxes. Only that some work.
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The chart/article was in response to someone who claimed that poor people do not work. And it is not just 'some.' It is most.

But they do pay taxes, particularly state/local taxes.
 
Geoist said:
I didn't avoid mentioning it. You said they paid no taxes. That is blatantly false, unless you want to argue that federal income tax is the only one that counts. :doh
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Actually, no I did not. I was specific when I said that nearly half the wage earners pay zero percent or less in federal income tax.
 
jimbo said:
If you are going to insure fairness, you start with the 50% that pay no income tax at all. How is that fair?
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They pay local, state, excise, and most pay payroll taxes. The majority of those who do not pay payroll taxes are retirees.
 
Geoist said:
The chart/article was in response to someone who claimed that poor people do not work. And it is not just 'some.' It is most.

But they do pay taxes, particularly state/local taxes.
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But we are talking about Trump's non existent tax cut. Presumably that will be federal, not state or local. But if you want to go down the sales tax road, the rich pay far more sales, property, and other local taxes than the poor.
 
Southern Dad said:
Actually, no I did not. I was specific when I said that nearly half the wage earners pay zero percent or less in federal income tax.
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That is my bad, I was thinking of apdst who I was originally talking to.
 
jimbo said:
But we are talking about Trump's non existent tax cut. Presumably that will be federal, not state or local.
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The difference would have to be made up one way or the other. Reagan raised taxes 11 times, partly to make up for the tax breaks. Some of those, like the payroll taxes, affect the working poor.


But if you want to go down the sales tax road, the rich pay far more sales, property, and other local taxes than the poor.
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I never said the poor pay more in sales/property/local taxes.
 
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