Why the silence on Vegas?

[Slingshot Bob]

So now it comes out. It was like pulling teeth. What answers were slow? Are you sure it is not just that you did not get the answers you wanted? If the shooter was inspired by ISIS why did he fail to mention them?

What comes out? I did not say it was Muslims and you flat out said "My problem is it appears you want to blame it on Muslims" I said no such thing (nor did the article, it asked if ISIS was involved) Again, are you broadbrushing Muslims as Isis?

 

[Slingshot Bob]

Iguanaman does have a point - why are you using as a source a guy who clearly thought it was a Muslim terror attack? On the Wiki is his quote: "This is a real thing. Clearly Coordinated Muslim Terror attack. PRAY for our Vegas police. PRAY for victims. VERY bad. Awful."

Perhaps you should consider news sources that don't peddle wild-eyed conspiracy theories.

You mean this, that was not part of my OP? You forgot the add his entire statement. Here, posted below in it's entirety.
===========================
Root tweeted in the aftermath of the 2017 attack in Las Vegas "This is a real thing. Clearly Coordinated Muslim Terror attack. PRAY for our Vegas police. PRAY for victims. VERY bad. Awful."[33] It has since been confirmed that the shooter was 64-year-old Mesquite, Nevada, resident Stephen Paddock.[34] Root then defended his original claim by tweeting "Terrible day. Liberal fools criticizing me 4 reporting what I hear DIRECT from police & credible news sources. I report it as I hear it."[35]

 

[Glen Contrarian]

You mean this, that was not part of my OP? You forgot the add his entire statement. Here, posted below in it's entirety.
===========================
Root tweeted in the aftermath of the 2017 attack in Las Vegas "This is a real thing. Clearly Coordinated Muslim Terror attack. PRAY for our Vegas police. PRAY for victims. VERY bad. Awful."[33] It has since been confirmed that the shooter was 64-year-old Mesquite, Nevada, resident Stephen Paddock.[34] Root then defended his original claim by tweeting "Terrible day. Liberal fools criticizing me 4 reporting what I hear DIRECT from police & credible news sources. I report it as I hear it."[35]

And instead of questioning the "police and credible sources" as to how they "knew" it was a Muslim attack, he took them at their word...

...and that's IF he actually questioned them at all.

But you know what? That's not what blows away his claim - and your apparent implication that he was only being a good and responsible reporter and not an Islamophobe. From the article that IS linked to from your OP:

Marilou Danley just happened to fly to Philippines a few days before her boyfriend carried out worst mass shooting in US history? Really? Great timing for her. And she just happens to admit her fingerprints could be on the ammo? And she just happened to erase her Facebook profile within an hour of the shooting…even though no one had released the name of Stephen Paddock in the media. How did she know it was him? How did she know to erase her FB page?

Oh, and the Philippines just happens to be a ISIS Islamic terror hotspot. And Paddock just happened to wire her $100,000 in the Philippines days before the massacre.

And Paddock just happened to have child porn on his computer. And ISIS is known to make money through child sex trafficking and child slavery. More on this “child porn” connection later.

Note that the article was posted on MARCH 18TH, 2018, over five months AFTER the massacre, and LONG after law enforcement pointed out there's no evidence whatsoever of any links to any terrorist organization. YES, ISIS did claim responsibility...but terrorist groups (particularly those who are losing) have long been known to claim responsibility for attacks they had nothing to do with. What's more, ALL other attacks that were committed by ISIS followers were committed by those who were shown to have direct communications with ISIS...and I've seen nothing indicating his wife went anywhere in the Philippines where terrorists are known to be - and I know the Philippines very well indeed (I have a house and lots of family there).

Now if you really want to show an American terrorist connection with Islamic terrorists, look at Timothy McVeigh and Terry Nichols. Before the attack in Oklahoma City, Terry Nichols flew to the Philippines and visited a school in the southern islands. That very same day, a certain terrorist named Ramzi Yousef was at the same school. Nichols was later found to have several stun grenades in his luggage before he boarded his flight back to the US...and it was later found that Yousef had been planning on destroying several international flights over the Pacific, all on the same day...and the attack on the planes was planned to take place on the same day the Oklahoma City bombing did take place.

Most of the links about all that are either difficult to find or are no longer present on the internet - or at least I can't find them anymore - but I did research it as part of a book I was writing at the time. You want a conspiracy - that was one.

Here's one link.
And another link.

 

[iguanaman]

What comes out? I did not say it was Muslims and you flat out said "My problem is it appears you want to blame it on Muslims" I said no such thing (nor did the article, it asked if ISIS was involved) Again, are you broadbrushing Muslims as Isis?

Is ISIS a Muslim organization? Again.. why didn't the shooter mention ISIS if that was his inspiration? There is no evidence that he was an ISIS follower either. Sending his girlfriend money when he planned on suicide is not evidence of anything. Even a nut knows you cannot take it with you.

 

[Maccabee]

Actually, the bi-pods are on many of the weapons, including those with bump-fire stocks and there is absolutely NO WAY he could have used a bi pod in those settings to fire on the crowd.

So much of that hotel room stinks of either EXTREMELY poor planning or a helluva staged scene.

We are dealing with someone that has little experience with firearms after all. The fact that he even used bump stocks in the first place inducates that the shooter had little experience.

 

[Maccabee]

Just out curiosity, do you have something in mind as far as "answers"? The deranged man wanted to use his AR's and bump stocks like they were intended and got tired of shooting targets at the range as far as I can see. Is there even a law in Vegas against bringing multiple weapons into a hotel room? I seriously doubt it.

ARs and bumpstocks aren't intended to be used in mass shootings. Bumpstocks were intended as a range toy. Nothing else.

 

[Maccabee]

Obviously if he was stopped from bringing in the guns it would have stopped him from shooting them at 100's of innocent people but sure he could have smuggled them all in. My problem is it appears you want to blame it on Muslims or anyone else. Is that because you don't believe that anyone like him (a white American) could ever do such a thing? Do you also believe Sandy Hook was a hoax?

He DID in fact smuggled them in.

 

[mike2810]

Yes it is a possibility, so is the government keeping certain facts from coming to light for it's own purposes, something they are certainly not above.

So you do believe it is possible it was a lone shooter.

I don't know if the government is keeping "certain facts from coming to light for it's own purposes. Why don't you ask the investigators if they are? You could send in a FOIA request.

What facts do you think they are keeping?

 

[VanceMack]

We are dealing with someone that has little experience with firearms after all. The fact that he even used bump stocks in the first place inducates that the shooter had little experience.

Bumpfire stocks are a novelty item. They DO work but they arent necessary.

I found it interesting based on the images of the death scene that he was wearing lose fitting thick cloth gloves...what appear to be gardening gloves. Anyone that has shot a bumpfire stock knows that the primary thing needed for successful operation of a weapon using either a bumpfire stock or bumpfiring the weapon without a stock is a strong firm forward press on the weapon. Seems to me that would be hard to maintain with lose fitting gloves-because the rifle cant give in order for it to function properly. He has spent all this time buying and prepping these weapons and cant find a decent pair of shooting gloves.

Its just the little things. The body position. Really. Oh...and the air hose...funny how it was elaborately placed but never in a position where he could have used it at either shooting site or when the police breached. Where was he standing when he shot himself? How did THAT work out? Where did the door go that was supposedly riddle with 200 holes?

Lots of little things....

 

[Slingshot Bob]

So you do believe it is possible it was a lone shooter.

I don't know if the government is keeping "certain facts from coming to light for it's own purposes. Why don't you ask the investigators if they are? You could send in a FOIA request.

What facts do you think they are keeping?

I don't know, the silence is deafening. That leaves the door wide open for speculation.

 

[mike2810]

I don't know, the silence is deafening. That leaves the door wide open for speculation.

It could. You seem to feed on it.

Have a good one.

 

[Slingshot Bob]

It could. You seem to feed on it.

Have a good one.

In the absence of answers, what else do you have? Faith in what little the gov has chosen to reveal?

 

[mike2810]

In the absence of answers, what else do you have? Faith in what little the gov has chosen to reveal?

an understand of the investigation and judicial process. What do you have besides speculation? :lamo

 

[Slingshot Bob]

an understand of the investigation and judicial process. What do you have besides speculation? :lamo

An "understand", that some people trust the government too much. Are you laughing at your typo?

 

[Thoreau72]

An "understand", that some people trust the government too much. Are you laughing at your typo?

Perhaps it wasn't a typo.....

Faith in the statements of known liars has been strongly encouraged behavior through generations of americans. Some are more susceptible than others.

The LV shooting was some sort of staged event, if for no other reason because the authorities are hiding so much.

 

[mike2810]

An "understand", that some people trust the government too much. Are you laughing at your typo?

Sure. Glad to see your now the grammar police That is all you have, now isn't it?

To answer the OP question again on "why the silence"? It is because it is old news.

 

[mike2810]

Perhaps it wasn't a typo.....

Faith in the statements of known liars has been strongly encouraged behavior through generations of americans. Some are more susceptible than others.

The LV shooting was some sort of staged event, if for no other reason because the authorities are hiding so much.

If it was a staged event, then please provide the evidence.

You do know that Mike A. has been shown to be a known liar. So why do you believe him? How about your claim in the Parkland thread where you claimed you have provided the evidence. Then I listed all your posts and guess what? Not one had any links to back up your statements.
https://www.debatepolitics.com/conspiracy-theories/314090-parkland-false-flag-9.html#post1068454528

Interesting how many false flags you claim have occurred in the US over the past year or two.

 

[VanceMack]

Perhaps it wasn't a typo.....

Faith in the statements of known liars has been strongly encouraged behavior through generations of americans. Some are more susceptible than others.

The LV shooting was some sort of staged event, if for no other reason because the authorities are hiding so much.

I dont believe it was a staged event. I think there are many things in the hotel room that look staged that simply makes no sense. The presence of computers and monitoring systems...but no hard drives. Heck...the sheer number of firearms..., the type of firearms...thats a little baffling. Why would a shooter have so many guns laying around? WOuldnt it make more sense to have MAYBE two to three at either shooting location and loaded magazines stacked neatly and actually in a place you can access? The magazines in the photos arent even in places they can be used. The guns themselves...if you have ANY experience shooting the guns in the first place (and if you are using a bumpfire equipped weapon, believe me...you have to have practiced...then why the hell would you equip a bumpfire stock equipped firearm with a scope? With a bipod? For that matter....if you are creating a shooting location that is 32 stories high, why would you equip ANY weapon with a bipod? You cant lay prone to shoot down on targets 400 feet below you. The ONLY thing bipods would do is obstruct your operation of a firearm...especially one you intend to use in a bumpfire capacity.

Also...since apparently the word is that Las Vegas police or security or the bellboy or someone engaged him perhaps even before the actual shooting started, why didnt the cops engage? If you listen to the actual video there were 36, 18, and 25 second intervals between each burst of firing. That supports the time it would take him to run from one window to the next and resume firing. But if there were those intervals and the cops were supposedly in the hallway already why didnt they act then...sometime after the first 90 rounds had been fired? (as per the actual footage, he fired 3 separate volleys in 2:05-thats a horrible rate of fire. He could have done better from a single rifle in a stationary setting firing one round at a time). The timeline is huge...especially since the cops have changed their story so many times. It could be that they, like the Parkland cops, were just inept and sat outside waiting for it to end before they engaged. Maybe THAT is at the end of the day why the police are so reluctant to release everything...because their response will show just how badly they handled everything.

 

[Maccabee]

Bumpfire stocks are a novelty item. They DO work but they arent necessary.

My point exactly. He was an inexperienced shooter. He bought the guns for a specific purpose. He wasn't some collector or avid shooter. Which will explain the bipods in combo with the bumpstocks.

I found it interesting based on the images of the death scene that he was wearing lose fitting thick cloth gloves...what appear to be gardening gloves. Anyone that has shot a bumpfire stock knows that the primary thing needed for successful operation of a weapon using either a bumpfire stock or bumpfiring the weapon without a stock is a strong firm forward press on the weapon. Seems to me that would be hard to maintain with lose fitting gloves-because the rifle cant give in order for it to function properly. He has spent all this time buying and prepping these weapons and cant find a decent pair of shooting gloves.

Look at all the mall ninjas that will buy $5000 guns but won't spend a dime on a decent scope or holster. Yeah, it's illogical, but not uncommon.

Its just the little things. The body position. Really.

What about the body position?

Oh...and the air hose...funny how it was elaborately placed but never in a position where he could have used it at either shooting site or when the police breached.

I'm not sure what you're talking about.

Where was he standing when he shot himself? How did THAT work out? Where did the door go that was supposedly riddle with 200 holes?

Lots of little things....

If I remember correctly you can see the door riddled with holes on the floor.

 

[Thoreau72]

I dont believe it was a staged event. I think there are many things in the hotel room that look staged that simply makes no sense. The presence of computers and monitoring systems...but no hard drives. Heck...the sheer number of firearms..., the type of firearms...thats a little baffling. Why would a shooter have so many guns laying around? WOuldnt it make more sense to have MAYBE two to three at either shooting location and loaded magazines stacked neatly and actually in a place you can access? The magazines in the photos arent even in places they can be used. The guns themselves...if you have ANY experience shooting the guns in the first place (and if you are using a bumpfire equipped weapon, believe me...you have to have practiced...then why the hell would you equip a bumpfire stock equipped firearm with a scope? With a bipod? For that matter....if you are creating a shooting location that is 32 stories high, why would you equip ANY weapon with a bipod? You cant lay prone to shoot down on targets 400 feet below you. The ONLY thing bipods would do is obstruct your operation of a firearm...especially one you intend to use in a bumpfire capacity.

Also...since apparently the word is that Las Vegas police or security or the bellboy or someone engaged him perhaps even before the actual shooting started, why didnt the cops engage? If you listen to the actual video there were 36, 18, and 25 second intervals between each burst of firing. That supports the time it would take him to run from one window to the next and resume firing. But if there were those intervals and the cops were supposedly in the hallway already why didnt they act then...sometime after the first 90 rounds had been fired? (as per the actual footage, he fired 3 separate volleys in 2:05-thats a horrible rate of fire. He could have done better from a single rifle in a stationary setting firing one round at a time). The timeline is huge...especially since the cops have changed their story so many times. It could be that they, like the Parkland cops, were just inept and sat outside waiting for it to end before they engaged. Maybe THAT is at the end of the day why the police are so reluctant to release everything...because their response will show just how badly they handled everything.

Everything you've mentioned makes me even more suspicious that it was staged. And by staged I mean only that the authorities are somehow in on it.

A good friend lives there, and he has 2 different sets of friends who had kids there at the concert. Those who turned over their cell phones to the police eventually got them back, but they were completely wiped of all photos. That says only that the authorities have something to hide. I know a girl that was at Pulse, and she said somethings on Facebook that were also completely wiped. So that is a similar set of circumstances, whatever that may be worth.

I think Adams' forensic acoustic analysis is relevant, and wonder why LVPD did not do the same thing themselves, and then wonder that maybe that is why those cellphones surrendered were returned cleaned.

Two shooters changes it all IMO>

 

[VanceMack]

My point exactly. He was an inexperienced shooter. He bought the guns for a specific purpose. He wasn't some collector or avid shooter. Which will explain the bipods in combo with the bumpstocks.


Look at all the mall ninjas that will buy $5000 guns but won't spend a dime on a decent scope or holster. Yeah, it's illogical, but not uncommon.


What about the body position?


I'm not sure what you're talking about.


If I remember correctly you can see the door riddled with holes on the floor.

From the bottom...

1-The door was riddled...with about 30 bullet holes. Not 200 as per police.

2-You mean the air hose and snorkel fitting?


3-The body position...
Man...I should post pictures for all this-but if you have the stomach for it, google them yourself. They cremated the body so all we have...we have. 3 of the first 4 police statements released indicated he died from a gunshot wound to the chest. They stated there was no head wound. That would explain the blood stain on his chest and would explain the blood that came from his mouth and ran out over his face into the carpet. But later reports said it was a self inflected gunshot to the mouth which would NOT explain the blood running out of his mouth in that manner. It also wouldnt explain the bloodstain on his chest at all. Additionally...look at the pictures they took of his head. Now look behind his head. Two distinct pools of blood from what would appear to be two very distinct episodes.

OK...now look at his feet. Look at where he is laying and then 'stand him up'. His toes would literally be touching the end table at the time of shooting. BUT...anytime someone shoots themselves they virtually never fall straight backwards, but if they do, they would bounce. Gravity works and the force of a 200+ pound man falling backwards from a violent episode would cause the body to move at least several inches. OK....either way...how did the rifle with bipod end up ACROSS his ankle? And how do both his arms end up at his side while the gun ends up 3 feet away from his head. If the arms flail outward (very possible and regionally consistent though it should be out several inches) with the approximate final resting place of his right arm, then it would be virtually impossibly for the firearm to end up ABOVE his head. It would have been lost from grasp a good 8 feet way from were it ended up.

But again...these are all just questions. It could still be one person. With LOTS of questions.

 

[cabse5]

You, and your link, are ignoring the obvious. Vegas is totally dependent on tourism, gambling and vice which includes not putting "what goes on in Vegas" surveillance videos into the hands of police, or possibly worse, the press. Good security is not only expensive it is very intrusive - not what folks intent on gambling and/or "partying" want. The less that is said about it by all then the faster that a terror event (regardless of its motive) is forgotten.

It is simply in nobody's interest, in Vegas, to not write this off as a once in a lifetime and unexplainable event. What mass shooting? Oh, that crazy loner guy that killed himself? Not much to worry about and highly unlikely to ever happen again.

SIAP. I think it's in the government's interest to keep a possible terrorist attack of this magnitude quiet.

 

[VanceMack]

Everything you've mentioned makes me even more suspicious that it was staged. And by staged I mean only that the authorities are somehow in on it.

A good friend lives there, and he has 2 different sets of friends who had kids there at the concert. Those who turned over their cell phones to the police eventually got them back, but they were completely wiped of all photos. That says only that the authorities have something to hide. I know a girl that was at Pulse, and she said somethings on Facebook that were also completely wiped. So that is a similar set of circumstances, whatever that may be worth.

I think Adams' forensic acoustic analysis is relevant, and wonder why LVPD did not do the same thing themselves, and then wonder that maybe that is why those cellphones surrendered were returned cleaned.

Two shooters changes it all IMO>

Logistically it was just...weird. The weapons used were AR15s and AR10s...magazines not compatible. The calibers used...2.23 and 308...again...mixed...and not compatible.

And the handgun he used to shoot himself in the head (and the bullet was found IN his head) was a S&W .357. From point blank range. No exit wound.

Reeeeeaaaaallllllyyyyy?

 

[Maccabee]

From the bottom...

1-The door was riddled...with about 30 bullet holes. Not 200 as per police.

Most of the door is obscured by the adjacent one. for all we know the obscured half is basically shredded.

2-You mean the air hose and snorkel fitting?
View attachment 67232410

3-The body position...
Man...I should post pictures for all this-but if you have the stomach for it, google them yourself. They cremated the body so all we have...we have. 3 of the first 4 police statements released indicated he died from a gunshot wound to the chest. They stated there was no head wound. That would explain the blood stain on his chest and would explain the blood that came from his mouth and ran out over his face into the carpet. But later reports said it was a self inflected gunshot to the mouth which would NOT explain the blood running out of his mouth in that manner. It also wouldnt explain the bloodstain on his chest at all. Additionally...look at the pictures they took of his head. Now look behind his head. Two distinct pools of blood from what would appear to be two very distinct episodes.

A. I would like to see the reports of the three officers saying that he was shot in the chest and B. Even if they said that, you must realize that these are SWAT officers responding to what sounded like a machine gunner spraying the field, not detectives analyzing the scene after the fact and the threat long neutralized. Their adrenaline is pumping and their only goal is to stop the threat and clear the rest of the room so they're going to miss details and what not.

OK...now look at his feet. Look at where he is laying and then 'stand him up'. His toes would literally be touching the end table at the time of shooting. BUT...anytime someone shoots themselves they virtually never fall straight backwards, but if they do, they would bounce. Gravity works and the force of a 200+ pound man falling backwards from a violent episode would cause the body to move at least several inches.

Actually, I've seen people getting head shot online and most of the reaction is in the head. their head jerks back and the body falls where it's at. I've never seen bodies move as you described.

OK....either way...how did the rifle with bipod end up ACROSS his ankle?

Probably had it set up and heard the SWAT team coming and dropped it right there and shot himself. The rifle, being on a bipod, happened to fall standing up. if you have a rifle with a bipod at home you can try the same thing.

And how do both his arms end up at his side while the gun ends up 3 feet away from his head. If the arms flail outward (very possible and regionally consistent though it should be out several inches) with the approximate final resting place of his right arm, then it would be virtually impossibly for the firearm to end up ABOVE his head. It would have been lost from grasp a good 8 feet way from were it ended up.

But again...these are all just questions. It could still be one person. With LOTS of questions.

This is the only one that I can't answer but only due to the fact that I don't study dead bodies as a career.

 

[Slingshot Bob]

Why the air hose? Did he plan to keep shooting if gassed?