Why is abortion acceptable?

[gfm7175]

Re: Abortion only applies to the fetus

Every single pregnancy is a risk to a woman's health...including up to taking her life.

Correct.

And it cant be predicted or prevented.

Correct.

Otherwise, 86,7000 women/yr in the US wouldnt die or nearly die from complications from pregnancy and childbirth.

Mhm.

The govt recognizes it has no right to force women to take these risks against their will...too bad you dont.

Huh?? Unless the woman was raped, and became pregnant as a result of that raping, how exactly is she being "forced" to take those risks "against her will"?? She makes the decision to take on those risks the very moment that she lets a man have sex with her...

 

[Lursa]

Re: Abortion only applies to the fetus

Huh?? Unless the woman was raped, and became pregnant as a result of that raping, how exactly is she being "forced" to take those risks "against her will"?? She makes the decision to take on those risks the very moment that she lets a man have sex with her...

Yup and she knows that she has a perfectly legal and safer option in abortion if she chooses it.

The govt force would be in some fantasy future where abortion was illegal.

 

[marke]

Re: Abortion only applies to the fetus

Otherwise, 86,7000 women/yr in the US wouldnt die or nearly die from complications from pregnancy and childbirth.

The govt recognizes it has no right to force women to take these risks against their will...too bad you dont.

You claim the government has no right to force women to stop killing their unborn babies. Maybe so. However, what do you think about the government's right to correct the stupid lying leftist death figures from birth complications? You submitted the number 86,700 per year. Wow! What a number! On the other hand, here is a different number posted by the CDC:

The death of a woman during pregnancy, at delivery, or soon after delivery, is a tragedy for her family and for society as a whole. Sadly, about 700 women die each year in the United States as a result of pregnancy or delivery complications.

Pregnancy Related Deaths, Centers For Disease Control and Prevention

Pregnancy-Related Deaths | CDC

The last five of eight of our healthy children were born after my wife rejected the state doctor's recommendation she abort them for health reasons. One additional child was born with birth defects and died in infancy. The birth defects were due to medications prescribed by her doctor and taken before anyone knew she was pregnant.

 

[Lursa]

Re: Abortion only applies to the fetus

You claim the government has no right to force women to stop killing their unborn babies. Maybe so. However, what do you think about the government's right to correct the stupid lying leftist death figures from birth complications? You submitted the number 86,700 per year. Wow! What a number! On the other hand, here is a different number posted by the CDC:

The death of a woman during pregnancy, at delivery, or soon after delivery, is a tragedy for her family and for society as a whole. Sadly, about 700 women die each year in the United States as a result of pregnancy or delivery complications.

Pregnancy Related Deaths, Centers For Disease Control and Prevention

Pregnancy-Related Deaths | CDC

The last five of eight of our healthy children were born after my wife rejected the state doctor's recommendation she abort them for health reasons. One additional child was born with birth defects and died in infancy. The birth defects were due to medications prescribed by her doctor and taken before anyone knew she was pregnant.

Read better: I wrote that 86,700 die or nearly die. Where do you think the 700 came from? :doh

I have links that support those numbers too, just not on this computer. And you're not really worth my time bothering to find them.

Interesting actions God has taken regarding your reproductive choices.

 

[marke]

Re: Abortion only applies to the fetus

Read better: I wrote that 86,700 die or nearly die. Where do you think the 700 came from? :doh

I have links that support those numbers too, just not on this computer. And you're not really worth my time bothering to find them.

Interesting actions God has taken regarding your reproductive choices.

According to leftist fear mongers, 86,000 women nearly die each year in America from pregnancies. Really? What does "nearly die" mean?

Pregnant woman in the last stages of delivery: "Get this baby out of me before I die."

 

[Bodi]

Re: Abortion only applies to the fetus

Huh?? Unless the woman was raped, and became pregnant as a result of that raping, how exactly is she being "forced" to take those risks "against her will"?? She makes the decision to take on those risks the very moment that she lets a man have sex with her...

She does not make the decision to remain pregnant and give birth to a child by having sex.

 

[minnie616]

Re: Abortion only applies to the fetus

According to leftist fear mongers, 86,000 women nearly die each year in America from pregnancies. Really? What does "nearly die" mean?

Pregnant woman in the last stages of delivery: "Get this baby out of me before I die."

Nearly die,or near misses means ....


“near misses”—severe complications and injury such as organ failure, massive blood loss, permanent disability, and premature birth or death of their babies.


From the following article about just one type of pregnancy complication.

Every year in the U.S., up to 8 percent, or 300,000, of pregnant or postpartum women develop preeclampsia, eclampsia, or a related condition such as HELLP syndrome.

Roughly 300 women die, and another 75,000 women experience “near misses”—severe complications and injury such as organ failure, massive blood loss, permanent disability, and premature birth or death of their babies.
Usually, the disease resolves with the birth of the baby and placenta.
But, it can occur postpartum—indeed, most maternal deaths occur after delivery.

Downton Abbey: Preeclampsia Maternal Deaths Continue Today

 

[Lursa]

Re: Abortion only applies to the fetus

According to leftist fear mongers, 86,000 women nearly die each year in America from pregnancies. Really? What does "nearly die" mean?

Pregnant woman in the last stages of delivery: "Get this baby out of me before I die."

Some of the reasons listed: stroke, kidney failure, pre-eclampsia, aneurysm.

Here's a newer link as I dont have my others.

Between 700 and 1,200 women die from complications related to pregnancy or childbirth every year in the US. Fifty times that number—about 50,000 in all—narrowly escape death, while another 100,000 women a year fall gravely ill during or following a pregnancy.

Why are so many new and expectant mothers dying in the US? — Quartz

And the only answer to the fantasy demand you 'made up' is to go thru labor and suffer thru the vaginal delivery of a fetus killed painlessly by lethal injection. So why would a woman do that? That's what a late term abortion is. More painful and dangerous than giving birth to a live baby.

So then why would any woman do that? When with less pain and suffering, she could deliver a live baby and make $20,000 putting it up for a private adoption? What's your answer here?

 

[Old Sarge]

Re: Abortion only applies to the fetus

Just because women died during childbirth for eons does not mean we should give up and not try to cut down on the numbers of women dying due to childbirth.

Women have had abortions for eons too.

But we have been trying to help women prevent unwanted pregnancies to help cut down on the numbers of abortions.

Why should we make women who are in ill health continue an unwanted pregnancy when they know a pregnancy can endanger their health further?

According to a recent survey ( in the last several years ) 12 percent of women who have abortions list concerns for their health as the reason they sought an abortion. 13 percent list concern for the health of a fetus as the reason for seeking an abortion.

As for the man , he usually does have a say.

Surveys have shown the vast majority of women filling surveys say the husband/ significant other agreed to the abortion.

In fact in one survey taken of married and committed couples it was the male who first brought up abortion in 40 percent of the cases.

As I said there is no reason to continue. I could refute every one of your points but what good would it do? You will continue to support unfrettered abortion while I will continue to oppose it. Good bye.

 

[gfm7175]

Re: Abortion only applies to the fetus

She does not make the decision to remain pregnant and give birth to a child by having sex.

That IS how the process works, though... One she becomes pregnant, she has another life inside of her.

 

[Lursa]

Re: Abortion only applies to the fetus

As I said there is no reason to continue. I could refute every one of your points but what good would it do? You will continue to support unfrettered abortion while I will continue to oppose it. Good bye.

No, you cant. That's a deliberate and obvious lie.

Why did you come to the Abortion sub-forum if not to discuss? You came self-rightously expecting to be the keeper of the moral High Ground and now that you've been confronted with facts that show that's not the case, you are just blustering.

You cannot refute the facts posted. Or you would have, instead of repeating the excuse that you can but 'we wont listen anyway.' I dont expect you to change your mind but the facts still stand and when I post them, others can read and consider them too. That's the point here...but again...you dont have the facts to support your personal opinion so you act like the problem is the other posters here.

 

[minnie616]

Re: Abortion only applies to the fetus

That IS how the process works, though... One she becomes pregnant, she has another life inside of her.

And since that life is inside her , attached to her and relies on her life’s resourses and only her life’s resourses she may choose not to continue the pregnancy.

 

[Old Sarge]

Re: Abortion only applies to the fetus

No, you cant. That's a deliberate and obvious lie.

Why did you come to the Abortion sub-forum if not to discuss? You came self-rightously expecting to be the keeper of the moral High Ground and now that you've been confronted with facts that show that's not the case, you are just blustering.

You cannot refute the facts posted. Or you would have, instead of repeating the excuse that you can but 'we wont listen anyway.' I dont expect you to change your mind but the facts still stand and when I post them, others can read and consider them too. That's the point here...but again...you dont have the facts to support your personal opinion so you act like the problem is the other posters here.

First off I don't lie and I resent your accusing me. If I say I can do something rest assured I can! So as far as this topic I am finished.

 

[Lursa]

Re: Abortion only applies to the fetus

First off I don't lie and I resent your accusing me. If I say I can do something rest assured I can! So as far as this topic I am finished.

Additional empty bluster...please dont bother. You were very clear before.

 

[Bodi]

Re: Abortion only applies to the fetus

That IS how the process works, though... One she becomes pregnant, she has another life inside of her.

I said that just because she chose to have sex does not mean that she is choosing to get pregnant, remain pregnant or to give birth.

 

[marke]

Re: Abortion only applies to the fetus

Some of the reasons listed: stroke, kidney failure, pre-eclampsia, aneurysm.

Here's a newer link as I dont have my others.

OK. You are adding your support by claiming that, although only 700 women die each year from these complications, a whopping 86,000 women nearly die from these complications? That sounds suspicious to me. Are you sure those numbers are accurate and are not unreasonably inflated by twisting real data to fit an unreal narrative?

 

[Lursa]

Re: Abortion only applies to the fetus

OK. You are adding your support by claiming that, although only 700 women die each year from these complications, a whopping 86,000 women nearly die from these complications? That sounds suspicious to me. Are you sure those numbers are accurate and are not unreasonably inflated by twisting real data to fit an unreal narrative?

We showed you several sources. Here's another:

Deaths in childbirth on the rise in the US:

Why are so many U.S. women dying during childbirth? : News

Why are so many U.S. women dying during childbirth? | Metro | stltoday.com

From the article:

"the rate hovers around 15 deaths per 100,000 births"

"each year in the U.S., about 700 women die of pregnancy-related complications and 52,000 experience emergencies such as acute renal failure, shock, respiratory distress, aneurysms and heart surgery. An additional 34,000 barely avoid death." Add these numbers for 86,700.

"The rate of severe complications during and after delivery have also doubled in the last decade, according to a 2012 federal study. Near-misses, where a woman nearly dies, increased by 27 percent."

"Deaths from stroke are also on the rise. A recent CDC study shows pregnancy-related strokes increased by 50 percent in 2006-2007, compared with 1994-1996."

 

[southwest88]

It's cold outside, there's no kind of atmosphere,

AND, once again, no counterargument to the arguments I presented in the comment you replied to (nor the rest of the comment you edited out, likely for space purposes)... just a blind dismissal of my arguments as 'absurd' with no counterargument to any of my arguments...

What is the point in debating if you aren't even going to respond to any of your interlocutor's arguments?

No, sorry. I didn't realize going in that our worldviews & assumptions are diametrically out of phase. My counter to your points would take a lot of exposition, & I assumed there was no reason to spend all that time & effort on it. I don't think we're in the same universe of discourse, & I don't see any way to close the gap. Perhaps some day, if our universes coincide considerably more.

 

[Old Sarge]

Re: Abortion only applies to the fetus

Additional empty bluster...please dont bother. You were very clear before.

Thank you for demonstrating why I have such little respect for pro abortion.

 

[Lursa]

Re: Abortion only applies to the fetus

Thank you for demonstrating why I have such little respect for pro abortion.

Did you somehow believe I was left with any respect for you?

I can respect: "we'll just have to agree to disagree."

I do not respect: "I can prove you are wrong, I just cant be bothered because you wont believe me."

One is recognition that our views will not converge. The other is lying to avoid admitting to failure to support your view.

 

[Scrabaholic]

Re: Abortion only applies to the fetus

Some morons will defend the barbarian practice of slaughtering unborn babies till they die and go to hell. Sad.

Care to answer my question? Would pictures of animal slaughter stop you from eating meat?

 

[Bodi]

Re: Abortion only applies to the fetus

Care to answer my question? Would pictures of animal slaughter stop you from eating meat?

Nope...

 

[Bodi]

Re: Abortion only applies to the fetus

Some morons will defend the barbarian practice of slaughtering unborn babies till they die and go to hell. Sad.

The Irony is that Hell will be filled with hot chicks, speedboats and martinis... Heaven will be Puritanical and boring.

 

[Bodi]

Re: Abortion only applies to the fetus

As I said there is no reason to continue. I could refute every one of your points but what good would it do? You will continue to support unfrettered abortion while I will continue to oppose it. Good bye.

No you can't...

Thank you for demonstrating why I have such little respect for pro abortion.

I have zero respect for people that want to turn women into incubator slaves...

 

[marke]

Re: Abortion only applies to the fetus

We showed you several sources. Here's another:

Deaths in childbirth on the rise in the US:

We need to see exactly where these numbers are coming from, especially in today's world of widespread fake news reporting. This is from USA Today:

Hospitals know how to protect mothers. They just aren't doing it. Maternal mortality rates rise as hospital safety measures go unused

There is no tracking system for childbirth complications.