Why is abortion acceptable?

[Bucky]

What I found problematic is that people on this forum were comparing the life of a fetus to that of a fly, or parasite. They deliberately used those analogies with precise intent. Make no mistake, they have great disdain for the fetus.

 

[Lursa]

NO. For everyone.

Correct, if you reduce women to 2nd class citizens again, it has ethical implications for all society.

 

[Lursa]

Re: Abortion only applies to the fetus

I posted a photo of a full term aborted baby here but it was taken down due to a violation of the rules against posting horrific images of brutal bloodshed. There may have been blind Germans who refused to see what Germans were doing to Jews and there may be blind Americans who refuse to see what baby murderers are doing to babies in the US but that does not change the fact that those atrocities are taking place just the same.

WHat was the reason for the abortion? Either the mother's life was endanger or the fetus was not viable/going to survive

 

[Old Sarge]

Re: Abortion only applies to the fetus

Yes , the court said viability varies from pregnancy to pregnancy.


Do you disagree with that?

There are only 4 clinic doctors in the United States that perform abortions past 21 weeks.




They check for viability in every case past 21 weeks.

Very often the fetus is not viable ( it will be stillborn , or it is dying and would only live a few minutes or hours ) the other cases are when the woman life or irreparable damage to a woman’s bodily function such as ( stroke, heart attack, paralysis from the neck down, kidney damage, liver damage etc) would occur if the pregnancy continued.

Women have been dying during child birth for eons. That to me is not a justification that because some women may die during child birth then all women should have the right to abort.


Minnie, I am not against all abortion and there are some strong arguments for abortion in some cases. But even you must admit that many if not most abortions today are because the woman just doesn't want children or it might interfere with her career, or other personal reasons. My other argument is that it takes two to make a child so why doesn't the man have any say his DNA is part of the fetus.


I believe we may as well drop this debate as you and I will never agree on this subject. Deal?

 

[gfm7175]

To late to edit.

Should read infants DO NOT die during a miscarriage , nor during an elective abortion.

Ahhh, that makes more sense...

So, if infants aren't dying, then what's happening?? I believe that the end of life is referred to as "death", right?

 

[gfm7175]

I accept your concession (as evidenced by your attempt to divert).

Apparently that concludes our correspondence...

 

[gfm7175]

So, you admit that it's not infanticide. Good.

"Wrongfully" is opinion, not fact.m Ditto for "careless".

Never admitted any such thing...

Again, given your unwillingness to directly address arguments, I think our correspondence has come to an end...

 

[minnie616]

What I found problematic is that people on this forum were comparing the life of a fetus to that of a fly, or parasite. They deliberately used those analogies with precise intent. Make no mistake, they have great disdain for the fetus.

Please quote anyone who used the word fly or parasite in this thread as comparison to a fetus.

 

[Bucky]

Please quote anyone who used the word fly or parasite in this thread as comparison to a fetus.

What happened to that geezer poster? I think his poster name was truthinallcost. H

 

[Lursa]

Re: Abortion only applies to the fetus

Women have been dying during child birth for eons. That to me is not a justification that because some women may die during child birth then all women should have the right to abort.


Minnie, I am not against all abortion and there are some strong arguments for abortion in some cases. But even you must admit that many if not most abortions today are because the woman just doesn't want children or it might interfere with her career, or other personal reasons. My other argument is that it takes two to make a child so why doesn't the man have any say his DNA is part of the fetus.


I believe we may as well drop this debate as you and I will never agree on this subject. Deal?

Then it sounds to me that you have no issues with women losing their Constitutional rights, bodily sovereignty, and right to self-determination in order to provide those exact same things instead to the unborn.

I mean, you cannot make abortion illegal and enforce it without doing that. The 2 cannot be treated equally under the law. It's obvious you value the unborn more. Why?

The law would use gov force to make women remain pregnant against their will.

I hope that you can see why we indeed will continue to disagree....because IMO that is completely immoral and by no means does your pro-life stance hold any moral High Ground at all.

 

[Lursa]

Please quote anyone who used the word fly or parasite in this thread as comparison to a fetus.

He's just throwing crap out there to see what sticks so he can argue something he's comfortably self-righteous about.

He accused me twice about discussing abortion for minors when I've not mentioned it at all.

 

[minnie616]

Re: Abortion only applies to the fetus

Women have been dying during child birth for eons. That to me is not a justification that because some women may die during child birth then all women should have the right to abort.


Minnie, I am not against all abortion and there are some strong arguments for abortion in some cases. But even you must admit that many if not most abortions today are because the woman just doesn't want children or it might interfere with her career, or other personal reasons. My other argument is that it takes two to make a child so why doesn't the man have any say his DNA is part of the fetus.


I believe we may as well drop this debate as you and I will never agree on this subject. Deal?

Just because women died during childbirth for eons does not mean we should give up and not try to cut down on the numbers of women dying due to childbirth.

Women have had abortions for eons too.

But we have been trying to help women prevent unwanted pregnancies to help cut down on the numbers of abortions.

Why should we make women who are in ill health continue an unwanted pregnancy when they know a pregnancy can endanger their health further?

According to a recent survey ( in the last several years ) 12 percent of women who have abortions list concerns for their health as the reason they sought an abortion. 13 percent list concern for the health of a fetus as the reason for seeking an abortion.

As for the man , he usually does have a say.

Surveys have shown the vast majority of women filling surveys say the husband/ significant other agreed to the abortion.

In fact in one survey taken of married and committed couples it was the male who first brought up abortion in 40 percent of the cases.

 

[minnie616]

Ahhh, that makes more sense...

So, if infants aren't dying, then what's happening?? I believe that the end of life is referred to as "death", right?

In the miscarriage the embryo/fetus or unborn dies within the womb.

There is no infant until birth. Infants do not live in wombs.

 

[southwest88]

So long, & thanks for all the fish

Science does not make use of supporting evidence. That is what religion does. Science only concerns itself with conflicting evidence.


That would be supporting evidence for the Old Earth religion. Even if this WERE a theory of science (it's not), [and to use similar language that Into The Night has used, since it's a great way of putting it] no amount of supporting evidence can bless, sanctify, further legitimize, or otherwise make holy, any theory of science.


…

You live in a very strange world. Best of luck there.

 

[Lursa]

Re: So long, & thanks for all the fish

You live in a very strange world. Best of luck there.

Yes, you might want to keep this in mind when discussing science or facts...or words...with him:

 

[marke]

Re: Abortion only applies to the fetus

I've seen the pictures anti choicers pass around. Many of them are not of aborted zefs, but of miscarriages/stillbirths. They do not sway me.

Would pictures of animal slaughter stop you from eating meat?

Some morons will defend the barbarian practice of slaughtering unborn babies till they die and go to hell. Sad.

 

[Lursa]

Re: Abortion only applies to the fetus

Some morons will defend the barbarian practice of slaughtering unborn babies till they die and go to hell. Sad.

Another disgusting portrayal of a so-called "Christian" here...posting nothing but lies and hate. and ill will. The OPPOSITE of God's Word.

People like you do more to turn people away from Our Lord more than any apathy could.

 

[Logician Man]

Re: Abortion only applies to the fetus

Some morons will defend the barbarian practice of slaughtering unborn babies till they die and go to hell. Sad.

There is such thing as an unborn baby.

 

[marke]

Re: Abortion only applies to the fetus

WHat was the reason for the abortion? Either the mother's life was endanger or the fetus was not viable/going to survive

Desperate woman: Doctor, I cannot afford to have a baby. I don't have a job. My boyfriend does not want me to have a baby. I don't need to be tied down right now. Can you help me?

Abortionist: We can abort the baby. We'll just say the abortion is necessary for your health.

 

[gfm7175]

In the miscarriage the embryo/fetus or unborn dies within the womb.

Okay, so if it dies, then that means that a life was lost. A life was killed...

There is no infant until birth. Infants do not live in wombs.

To get past semantics, I'm willing to drop the infant label, given that there are different names for different life stages of the child... I'll just refer to it as "a life", since (beginning with conception), the "life" is going through an approximately nine month long process of becoming a fully formed human being, such as you and I are today.

No matter what stage of life the child is aborted at (40 weeks, 20 weeks, 10 weeks, 2 days, etc...) It is still the loss of a life. Yes, sometimes that loss is natural. That is out of one's control (it is not immoral). However, when one forcibly kills that innocent unborn child, then it IS immoral. Whether someone is 10 years old, or 10 weeks old, they are still a life, all the same, and just as important all the same...

 

[gfm7175]

Re: So long, & thanks for all the fish

You live in a very strange world. Best of luck there.

AND, once again, no counterargument to the arguments I presented in the comment you replied to (nor the rest of the comment you edited out, likely for space purposes)... just a blind dismissal of my arguments as 'absurd' with no counterargument to any of my arguments...

What is the point in debating if you aren't even going to respond to any of your interlocutor's arguments?

 

[Lursa]

Re: Abortion only applies to the fetus

Desperate woman: Doctor, I cannot afford to have a baby. I don't have a job. My boyfriend does not want me to have a baby. I don't need to be tied down right now. Can you help me?

Abortionist: We can abort the baby. We'll just say the abortion is necessary for your health.

Every single pregnancy is a risk to a woman's health...including up to taking her life.

And it cant be predicted or prevented.

Otherwise, 86,7000 women/yr in the US wouldnt die or nearly die from complications from pregnancy and childbirth.

The govt recognizes it has no right to force women to take these risks against their will...too bad you dont.


Your "so-called Christian" answer to this woman you admit is desperate is "tough ****."

 

[minnie616]

Okay, so if it dies, then that means that a life was lost. A life was killed...


To get past semantics, I'm willing to drop the infant label, given that there are different names for different life stages of the child... I'll just refer to it as "a life", since (beginning with conception), the "life" is going through an approximately nine month long process of becoming a fully formed human being, such as you and I are today.

No matter what stage of life the child is aborted at (40 weeks, 20 weeks, 10 weeks, 2 days, etc...) It is still the loss of a life. Yes, sometimes that loss is natural. That is out of one's control (it is not immoral). However, when one forcibly kills that innocent unborn child, then it IS immoral. Whether someone is 10 years old, or 10 weeks old, they are still a life, all the same, and just as important all the same...

No , abortins are NOT immoral.

Children are not aborted.
Infants are notaborted.

Infants and children do not live in wombs.

I already proved abortion is a moral choice.

The Moral Case – Religious Coalition for Reproductive Choice

 

[gfm7175]

No , abortins are NOT immoral.

I already proved abortion is NOT immoral.

I must've missed that proof... could you either re-provide it or direct me to where it is located?

 

[Peter King]

I must've missed that proof... could you either re-provide it or direct me to where it is located?

She literally provided you the link to her case that it is a moral decision.