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Why is abortion acceptable?

You are playing word games. No matter what you call the unborn but within minutes of conception science says human life has begun.

Yes, I'm aware of the differences between born and unborn. There's an entire list of physiological changes that take place at birth.

It's a distinct difference in the stages of human development.

That is all biology. Science is objective. Nothing in biology has anything to do with ethics, laws, or value. That is up to society.

In our society, the unborn has no rights.

Obviously, the distinction is recognized by all, even if not all agree on the legal status of the unborn. SCOTUS has decided that the unborn are not equal and did not recognize rights for the unborn. And our laws reflect this:

U.S. Code: § 8 “Person”, “human being”, “child”, and “individual” as including born-alive infant

1 U.S. Code: SS 8 “Person”, “human being”, “child”, and “individual” as including born-alive infant | U.S. Code | US Law | LII / Legal Information Institute

(a) In determining the meaning of any Act of Congress, or of any ruling, regulation, or interpretation of the various administrative bureaus and agencies of the United States, the words “person”, “human being”, “child”, and “individual”, shall include every infant member of the species homo sapiens who is born alive at any stage of development.

(b) As used in this section, the term “born alive”, with respect to a member of the species homo sapiens, means the complete expulsion or extraction from his or her mother of that member, at any stage of development, who after such expulsion or extraction breathes or has a beating heart, pulsation of the umbilical cord, or definite movement of voluntary muscles, regardless of whether the umbilical cord has been cut, and regardless of whether the expulsion or extraction occurs as a result of natural or induced labor, cesarean section, or induced abortion.
 
As to reaching full term yes there are possible things that can happen but then your entire life is a crap shot. There is no guarantee you will see another sun rise.

It's a crap shoot for the unborn too...at least 25% are miscarried.

And you are right...none of us are guaranteed life...so the unborn is no different.
 
Some of the comments in this thread are horrifying. Claiming the rights of the mother supersede the rights of the fetus at all times? That's just shocking!!!

You have a breathing and living human in the womb. The strongest bond a mother has is with its baby. There is no conflict between the two. A mother will do anything for it, even sacrifice her own life!
 
Yep, Mother Nature, red in tooth & claw

Some of the comments in this thread are horrifying. Claiming the rights of the mother supersede the rights of the fetus at all times? That's just shocking!!!

You have a breathing and living human in the womb. The strongest bond a mother has is with its baby. There is no conflict between the two. A mother will do anything for it, even sacrifice her own life!

No, the fetus doesn't breathe. It's called fetal respiration, but I assume that's just force of habit. One - there's no air in the womb. The fetus may start ingesting (actually swallowing) some tiny amount of amniotic fluid, as if it were air - practice breathing, I think it's called. Fetal transpiration is through the shared blood flow with the woman, whose heart & lungs actually drive the exchange. The fetus will develop a heart, but that's closer to term.
 
Some of the comments in this thread are horrifying. Claiming the rights of the mother supersede the rights of the fetus at all times? That's just shocking!!!

You have a breathing and living human in the womb. The strongest bond a mother has is with its baby. There is no conflict between the two. A mother will do anything for it, even sacrifice her own life!

Some of the comments in this thread are horrifying. Claiming the rights of the ZEF supersede the rights of the mother at all times? That's just shocking!!!

You have a breathing and living human human already born viable and is a citizen with rights. The strongest bond a mother has is with its baby its nobody else business when it involves her health, life and rights. There is no conflict between her decision and others feelings. Some will try to force anything on the mother though, even sacrifice her own life and rights!

wow that was easy LMAO another post of your completley fails :)
 
Notice more far leaning left countries have more restrictive views on abortion. Chew on that.

You mean authoritarian dictatorships which are always right wing no matter what they claim. All other democracies have legalized abortion, many long before we did. Left wingers are against the State controlling peoples bodies and interfering in their relationship with their physician. Funny isn't it? Us "big Govt. libruls" protecting the people from the "evil out of control State"?
 
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Re: If your Snark be a Boojum!

Comparing a developing human to a brain-dead individual, then claiming that what I explained is somehow degrading is hilariously dishonest.

A brain-dead individual is still human, so long as the cells which make up that human are also alive. Much like the psychopathic and horribly dishonest comparison to a tumor cell, the differences between a brain-dead individual and a developing unborn human are legion. The brain-dead individual, as of now, cannot recover, while violence is required to murder the unborn human.

Have you ever stopped to consider that advocating that unborn humans can be murdered is "degrading to society"?


75% of "Unborn" fertilized eggs are naturally expelled because of a myriad of reasons. The idea that it is "murder" is hyperbolic and wrong. A fetus is also brain dead when 99% of them are aborted. Some don't even develop brains at all. Our brains are what make us different from any other mammal, without it we cannot be called human.

I agree a fetus is brain dead until about 26 weeks as does the author of the book The Ethical Brain

From the following:

As leading neuroscientist Michael Gazzaniga, a member of

President Bush’s Council on Bioethics, describes in his book The Ethical Brain, current neurology suggests that a fetus doesn’t possess enough neural structure to harbor consciousness until about 26 weeks, when it first seems to react to pain. Before that, the fetal neural structure is about as sophisticated as that of a sea slug and its EEG as flat and unorganized as that of someone brain-dead.

Read more:

The Consciousness Meter: Sure You Want That? | WIRED
 
Some of the comments in this thread are horrifying. Claiming the rights of the mother supersede the rights of the fetus at all times? That's just shocking!!!

You have a breathing and living human in the womb. The strongest bond a mother has is with its baby. There is no conflict between the two. A mother will do anything for it, even sacrifice her own life!

The unborn have no rights. States may take a compelling interest in the fetus at viability and ban abortions ( with life/ heath exceptions for the woman)

Abortion is a medical procedure. States can ban dangerous medical procedures and when they first banned abortions they were dangerous.

By the 1970s abortions were safer for the woman than childbirth, there states can no longer ban abortion as a medical procedure.
 
The unborn have no rights. States may take a compelling interest in the fetus at viability and ban abortions ( with life/ heath exceptions for the woman)

Abortion is a medical procedure. States can ban dangerous medical procedures and when they first banned abortions they were dangerous.

By the 1970s abortions were safer for the woman than childbirth, there states can no longer ban abortion as a medical procedure.

It appears you have very little objectivity on this topic due to your gender. I want you to consider this from all perspectives.
 
Re: Because abortion law hadn't kept up with medical advances

So you support illegal abortionists and want to create an industry for them? Why do you hate women so?

Yea that's exactly my point. :roll:
 
Re: Because abortion law hadn't kept up with medical advances

For those who actually care about the truth...

Your baby’s brain starts developing almost at the moment of conception, according to the Long Island Spectrum Center website. By the time you are three weeks pregnant, the developing embryo has formed a neural groove, which is the foundation for the brain structure. By the time your baby is born, her brain will have over 100 billion neurons.

First Trimester
The brain grows at a remarkably rapid rate. By the end of the third week of gestation, the embryo has formed the three parts of the brain (the forebrain, midbrain and hindbrain). One week later, the brain begins functioning. At this point, the brain busily begins to work on the placement of all the major organs and systems. By the end of the eighth week of pregnancy, all of the major organs are in place, according to the Long Island Spectrum Center website.

Second and Third Trimester
By the start of the second trimester of pregnancy, all of the major structures of the brain are in place and functioning. From this point forward, the brain and major organs continue to develop and mature. The brain connects to all parts of the body during this time, and the connections are complete by the seventh month, in a process known as synaptogenesis. The brain is also making other connections: Rapid brain and head growth occurs during the eighth month. According to ABC News, babies in the womb are known to be able to recognize their mother’s voice at this point.

Aggregation
As the brain is formed, cells are being placed precisely where they need to go in a process called aggregation. As the fetal brain develops, cells are organized in proper directions and layers, but sometimes this process goes awry. Abnormal cell aggregation in the brain can be caused by genetic or external factors such as poor maternal health habits such as drinking alcohol or using drugs. In addition, studies show that chronic stress in the mother-to-be can affect the brain development of the baby, according to Quantum Parenting.

Baby Brain Development in the Womb - ModernMom
 
Re: Because abortion law hadn't kept up with medical advances

Well I know about that of course but prefer not to use in discussions because while it will be a viable alternative for women, the most basic of my reasons for being pro-choice...the respect for women in our country and our equal rights...is not addressed by that 'workaround.'

I didnt read the article but I am aware of the drugs.

Why not? It describes what it's like in a country where abortion is mostly illegal.
 
You aren't qualified to make that determination. Especially over the internet.

Not a personal attack at all but an observation. But then most progressives are thin skinned and can't accept the truth. Just another observation.
 
My info about the abortions occurring in the early 1930s comes from chapter 5 of the book

When abortion was a Crime

Unfortunately I am not able to copy and paste from the link I found.

When Abortion Was a Crime

Great link, Minnie! Thank you, I have bookmarked it for future reference.
 
Re: Bandwagon much?

Yah. When the ~prolife organization @ Princeton actually sits on the US Supreme Court, please get back to me. In the here & now, they're pro-life partisans who happen to work or reside @ Princeton. That doesn't automatically make them right; nor, I suspect, would Princeton U. be happy to have their university's stance on abortion conflated with the stance of anti-abortion partisans who merely happen to work or live there.

The Supreme Court rules on the Constitution. So until they rule on the beginning of life I wll stick with the scientific community.


When it comes to Princeton that is very true, however the majority of the medical scientific community says the same thing that human life begins with the formation of the one-celled zygote. Common sense should tell you that is the beginning.
 
To all who disagree with me on abortion we will have to agree to disagree. Case closed. Thank you all for your inputs.
 
Another lie?

Uh, this one was easy to find:

My post stating [["Yes, they are recreationally killing off "to-be-born" infants."]] was not an appeal to emotion. It was a statement of truth, and the no-bones way of stating what is happening...
 
What is immoral is taking away a women's right to control their own body
Yet again, NOBODY is taking away a woman's right to anything here... The woman has every right to choose whether she's going to take part in actions which might lead to pregnancy. IF she gets pregnant, she WILLINGLY put herself in that situation. SHE needs to bear the consequences of her actions, NOT the life inside her womb...

because you think a clump of cells has a soul.
YOU are a "clump of cells", even now... Do you support YOURSELF being aborted (euthanized)? I ask from a purely moral standpoint, NOT from a legal one...

A fetus is not a human being,
Yes, it is. The life of any human being begins at conception. Beginning with conception, life is present, as those cells are actively at work, striving to become a fully formed human being.

it is a clump of cells that may or may not become a living breathing human.
YOU are a "clump of cells"... Thankfully, you weren't aborted as an infant inside your mother's womb...

3/4's of fertilized eggs do not survive. Do you tihink we should morn them all?
Irrelevant. If they naturally do not survive, there's nothing one can do about that. It's still sad that they didn't survive, but it's out of our control... Purposely taking away innocent life while it is inside the womb, however, is much sadder.
 
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