Why do some Democrats not want Bernie as their nominee?

[braindrain]

As compared to yet another "moderate" who will be punched, kicked and dragged around by the GOP as they laugh at more "bipartisanship".

Bipartisan THIS:

Twelve years of Mitch McConnell's nonsense is enough, and twelve years of watching Democrats being dragged further and further to the Right is enough. We'll be lucky if we managed to get back to the center, we're so far over to the Right as it is.
You guys ran a so called "moderate" in 2016. She lost, because she sucked.

If one of your so-called "moderates" wins the Dem nom, I'll vote for them but take this warning to heart:

The Republicans will destroy your moderate the way they attempted to destroy Obama.
In fact, they'll double their efforts, and they will return to win in 2024 and that will be the end of your dreams of "moderates" for at least a generation.

Wow a cartoon. Pretty impressive.

What major dem politician is pushing any policies that are even close to right wing or even center for that matter.

And you do realize that the moderate that ran for president last time got way more votes in the primary then the far left wing candidate.

 

[braindrain]

Seeing as how Redress made a point of stating he is not a Bernie fan, it's clear that you don't even know what a Bernie Bro is.
You are also not aware that the consensus in 2020 is not pointing to the shrinking "Bro" segment but rather, to the ABT segment...Anyone But Trump.

I was a Bernie supporter in 2016. When Hillz won, I held my nose and pulled the H lever.
If Bernie loses again, I will hold my nose and vote for the nominee.

The so called "Bros" wasted my time and everyone else's in 2016...most of them either stayed home, or voted for Stein, or voted Bernie as a Write-In, or voted for Trump "to teach us a lesson".
They got taught a lesson instead. And the rest of us had to PAY for the lesson.
This time around it is clear that the so called "Bros" have shrunk almost to invisibility.

POLL: Are you or are you NOT a "Bernie Bro"?

Show me where the massive throng of Bernie Bros are, because from where I sit they're smaller than Trump's inaugural crowd in 2016. :lamo

You may want to do a bit of fact checking on just what percentage of Sanders supporters stayed home.

 

[hermit]

If you think AOC's time has nearly come then I don't understand your Bernie problem at all.
He's old??? Pffftttt, that guy will probably live past a hundred.

I WILL support whoever wins the nomination but I think, at least right now, that Bernie's time is now.
I guess we'll see.

My opinion of why Bernie has a problem winning this thing:

1. He is a self-proclaimed "socialist"....that's what people hear.
2. He is not even a Dem
3. He is a cult
4. It is idealists who are attracted to Bernie
5. We need someone like Amy Klobuchar to get things to a dull roar so we can see what needs to be done about the trainwreck Trump and his henchmen and women are leaving.
6. Immigration, health care, climate change, immigration....these things need attention NOW.
7. From all I read, Bernie is not good with math, he can't come up with financial numbers for his programs
8. I don't think Bernie's age detracts from those who are attracted to his message. But still, he is old and he is health-challenged in my view.
9. He's just not a very effective politician.

 

[Sweden]

My opinion of why Bernie has a problem winning this thing:

1. He is a self-proclaimed "socialist"....that's what people hear.
2. He is not even a Dem
3. He is a cult
4. It is idealists who are attracted to Bernie
5. We need someone like Amy Klobuchar to get things to a dull roar so we can see what needs to be done about the trainwreck Trump and his henchmen and women are leaving.
6. Immigration, health care, climate change, immigration....these things need attention NOW.
7. From all I read, Bernie is not good with math, he can't come up with financial numbers for his programs
8. I don't think Bernie's age detracts from those who are attracted to his message. But still, he is old and he is health-challenged in my view.
9. He's just not a very effective politician.

Even if I was an American lefty there is no way I would vote for someone about as old as me. Imo your reason 8. should be at the top of your list.

 

[GreatNews2night]

Your anecdote is just that.

The EU style healthcare systems are going to take decent care of a young person and a moderately struggling infant. However if you were older or that child more severely ill it would be a different story. Just as an easy metric, look at joint replacements and stent placements. They just don't authorize those procedures on 70+ year olds, it's economic math.

Maybe they are right about it. Our disproportionate spending on the very old with terminal illnesses is probably not the best way to run a healthcare system.

 

[Patriotic Voter]

I know the question isn’t really for me but I don’t think it’s a matter of his politics that they disagree with so much as they feel he’s a lot less likely to beat Trump.

Actually many people think he is more likely to beat Trump than Biden.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

I have the feeling that there are plenty of voters out there who would be intimidated by the thought of voting for a socialist. Not every voter is ahead of the curve. There are plenty of people who really only care about their jobs and their families and paying their bills. That's the life they live and like. They don't want Bernie's futuristic society. Even if Bernie's society isn't too far down the road, it's still way too far for plenty of American citizens. That what I believe.

Not to mention that I don't think Big Business is ready to hand over the reins to a socialist. It just ain't gonna happen in today's terms. We need a candidate to help us with today's problems.

I would like to add, what I see Bernie doing that is very positive is that he is planting seeds of a better way to run the country. He is changing the dialogue, and that's quite a distinction.

Clearly forty years of Republican conditioning has worked on the DNC establishment. I imagine they can hear Ronald Reagan in their heads instead of FDR.

Like I said, they're still "hanging their heads in shame" because someone dared to suggest the party should be more to the Left than the GOP.

 

[X Factor]

Actually many people think he is more likely to beat Trump than Biden.

Ah maybe. I’m not really good at gaging these things. I thought Trump was the least likely to beat anyone.

 

[GreatNews2night]

Actually many people think he is more likely to beat Trump than Biden.

Probably, as Biden is floundering more and more. Still, I don't think that Bernie's chances are that great. But like I've been saying, they could improve with a good veep.

He does have a strange problem, though. His best bet is if people stop being afraid of his policies, by realizing that they won't ever pass Congress, even if the Dems capture the majority in both chambers.

But how do you advertise something like this? "Hey, vote for me; don't worry, my ideas will never see the light of day."

 

[braindrain]

Maybe they are right about it. Our disproportionate spending on the very old with terminal illnesses is probably not the best way to run a healthcare system.

So you think the government should have told my 72 year old grandfather that he should just deal with being in horrible pain ever single step he took. He is 83 right now.

Yeah sorry I don't think I would support that system. And I don't think you would either if you had to be the one to tell the families that their loved ones were going to die or be in extreme pain simply because we could treat them but choose not to due to their age.

And no neither joint or Stent replacement are just for terminally ill

 

[Dans La Lune]

I know the question isn’t really for me but I don’t think it’s a matter of his politics that they disagree with so much as they feel he’s a lot less likely to beat Trump.

If Bernie isn’t electable, then the Dems have big problems because he destroys the next most viable choice by any metric. The real problem is that people just aren’t serious about stopping Trump and were never serious. There are literally people on this forum who label themselves as ‘Very Liberal’ who will write-in a candidate rather than vote for Bernie.

Some people just don’t care about policy.

 

[Patriotic Voter]

Probably, as Biden is floundering more and more. Still, I don't think that Bernie's chances are that great. But like I've been saying, they could improve with a good veep.

He does have a strange problem, though. His best bet is if people stop being afraid of his policies, by realizing that they won't ever pass Congress, even if the Dems capture the majority in both chambers.

But how do you advertise something like this? "Hey, vote for me; don't worry, my ideas will never see the light of day."

Bernie Sanders is fully aware he needs young voters to show up because they are the most likely to support "Democratic socialist" policies. Iowa State University students volunteered on campus to get people to vote at the school's caucus.

Joe Biden OTOH has a better chance of beating Donald Trump if the grandparents of college students come out to vote.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

So was it a Trump talking point when Obama told other nato countries they needed to pull their own weight. Oh let me guess. That was different right.

And you do realize that bave was saying that it is foolish to be spending massive amounts of money going to college to learn skills that are not like the ones you just said we needed. That's exactly his point. We need those skills. Not useless degrees. Maybe you should actually read what people write instead of what you want them to write.

Where are baves backups to his assertions, maybe you could help him with that, so that the rest of us don't have to take the word of "some guy on the internet" and then we can look up the actual RATIO OF these so called "useless degrees" compared to important ones.

And by the way, if conservatives really WANTED to help with the issue perhaps they could stimulate some of those private sector partnerships, you know, like when you see "Staples Center" which used to be an ordinary sports arena, but which now has corporate sponsorship built in?
Yeah, they're all for that when it's a stadium.
How about cons figure out how to get some of that sponsorship into our schools so that a bunch of advanced high schools and community colleges can be "Microsoft Centers of Excellence" and "Johns Hopkins Centers of Excellence" and "Lockheed-Martin Centers of Excellence".
Maybe parents wouldn't have to hold all those bake sales so teachers could get a decent paycheck.

That's where cons could help libs, but no instead you guys are all "some guy on the internet" who is convinced that all the kids in college are all taking useless degrees, but you don't have any numbers to back up your claim, it's just something Dennis Prager said, so it MUST BE TRUE.
But no, instead you'll keep teeing up "charter schools" which suck the funding out of the public school district so that later you can point and say how badly those schools are doing.

I am beyond hip to your game, cons...you've done it to the Post Office, you're doing it to the VA, you've been doing it to federal and state highways (pretty soon we will be paying a toll to leave our driveways, even if we walk or bike!) and you're doing it to our municipal water supplies, handing Nestle a license to drain the aquifers.

And Obama?
WHATABOUT Obama, are we whatabout-ing now? Then you didn't read the link I gave you, it shows.

 

[GreatNews2night]

So you think the government should have told my 72 year old grandfather that he should just deal with being in horrible pain ever single step he took. He is 83 right now.

Yeah sorry I don't think I would support that system. And I don't think you would either if you had to be the one to tell the families that their loved ones were going to die or be in extreme pain simply because we could treat them but choose not to due to their age.

And no neither joint or Stent replacement are just for terminally ill

I said, disproportionate.

Joint replacements, stent, fine. But ultra-expensive chemotherapy for advanced cancers to get people to survive 3 more months and spend more in those 3 more months than throughout their entire lives is plain stupid. Exactly because of this disproportionate spending, many other forms of good care end up being out of reach for much younger people. Ask all the people who go bankrupt due to unexpected health expenses in the US, at a much younger age than your grandfather, which absolutely does not happen in Europe.

Anyway, our systems are different. They both have strengths and weaknesses.

Just as much as you gave the example of your grandfather, I could tell you, how do you tell the families of the 30 million uninsured Americans that they can just die because they can't afford any care whatsoever? Again, this absolutely does not happen in Europe.

So it's not like we're beating the Europeans in all aspects. We are strong in some aspects, they are strong in some others. These are different philosophies of care, and different ways to deal with the finances.

Over there, they see more value in making sure that everybody has the basics and money is spent sensibly to ensure that basic for everybody.

Over here we have privileged people with boutique plans, the elderly spending a lot, and 30 million people with no access to care whatsoever.

Not to forget, one of the reasons we're not doing SO poorly is because the ACA did away with the discrimination against pre-existing conditions. As you probably know, Trump and the Republicans are doing their best to screw that.

So, next time, when they succeed, you wouldn't want to be the person who would have to say to everybody who sees him/herself not covered for serious illnesses, because the insurer managed to exclude that illness from the coverage, that sorry, no can do, they can just die from that illness. Great. Again, that doesn't happen in Europe.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

Probably, as Biden is floundering more and more. Still, I don't think that Bernie's chances are that great. But like I've been saying, they could improve with a good veep.

He does have a strange problem, though. His best bet is if people stop being afraid of his policies, by realizing that they won't ever pass Congress, even if the Dems capture the majority in both chambers.

But how do you advertise something like this? "Hey, vote for me; don't worry, my ideas will never see the light of day."

Some of them will.
At the very least, we'll be able to reboot the ACA only WITH the PUBLIC OPTION that Obama tried to introduce.
Hey, remember what happened to the public option?

Joe Lieberman, a MODERATE, told Obama he would vote to KILL OFF the entire bill if there was a public option.

That's an article by Wendell Potter, who used to be a top CIGNA executive.

There's your so called "MODERATES".
They suck the life out of every goddamn thing that might help working families in America so that their CON buddies don't hate them.
Moderates....#&*(@@$!! another word for "spine made of wet ramen noodles".
Susan Collins is a "moderate" Republican.
Hard to tell the difference between a Susan Collins and a Joe Lieberman, or a Zell Miller.

So called "moderates"....their other trick was "running away from Obama".
Why? Because Obama was a socialist, too??

Do me a favor, moderates, go join the GOP.
With friends like you, who needs enemies?
It's time we took stock of what moderates have been costing the Democratic Party the last forty years.

 

[Dans La Lune]

Bernie Sanders is fully aware he needs young voters to show up because they are the most likely to support "Democratic socialist" policies. Iowa State University students volunteered on campus to get people to vote at the school's caucus.

Joe Biden OTOH has a better chance of beating Donald Trump if the grandparents of college students come out to vote.

Biden’s strength against Trump is entirely a media concoction — an illusion. If Biden wins the nomination Trump will eat him alive. That’s not fear-mongering to bolster Sanders. He doesn’t need it. Biden is struggling just to survive through Super Tuesday, and its not just about money. In New Hampshire, Biden is seen as the #1 person who people would not vote for under ANY circumstances.

Biden is a mess and I feel sorry for him at this point. This is his third presidential run. Why did anyone ever consider him the most electable?

 

[GreatNews2night]

Some of them will.
At the very least, we'll be able to reboot the ACA only WITH the PUBLIC OPTION that Obama tried to introduce.
Hey, remember what happened to the public option?

Joe Lieberman, a MODERATE, told Obama he would vote to KILL OFF the entire bill if there was a public option.

That's an article by Wendell Potter, who used to be a top CIGNA executive.

There's your so called "MODERATES".
They suck the life out of every goddamn thing that might help working families in America so that their CON buddies don't hate them.
Moderates....#&*(@@$!! another word for "spine made of wet ramen noodles".
Susan Collins is a "moderate" Republican.
Hard to tell the difference between a Susan Collins and a Joe Lieberman, or a Zell Miller.

So called "moderates"....their other trick was "running away from Obama".
Why? Because Obama was a socialist, too??

Do me a favor, moderates, go join the GOP.
With friends like you, who needs enemies?
It's time we took stock of what moderates have been costing the Democratic Party the last forty years.

Well, I resent what you are saying. I'm a moderate. Like my avatar will show you, I'm a big Barack Obama fan. I helped both his campaigns all I could. I donated, I volunteered. No, I won't join the GOP.

Look, I always liked you. You are a nice guy, and intelligent.

Are you also making the mistake of saying, "oh well, we progressives don't need the moderates, screw them, let them join the GOP. We know better. We'll get it all solved on our own."

Because, you know what? You won't. Just as much as without you progressives, we left-leaning moderates won't win, without us, moderates, you progressives won't win either.

So instead of trying to offend and alienate moderates, maybe you should try for some unity of everybody who wants to beat Trump. That's the same mistake I was making when I was bashing progressives. I stopped. I am disappointed to see that you didn't.

Because, see... if you don't compromise and join with the moderates, what you'll get is another victory for the extreme right.

What do you prefer? Moderates, or the extreme right? Because me, I certainly prefer progressives to the extreme right.

 

[GreatNews2night]

He doesn’t need it.

You are convinced that you don't need the moderates to win the November election with Bernie, right? I'll tell you, you are sorely mistaken, and you'll have a big surprise in November if you don't involve the moderates and don't get them to support Bernie if Bernie is the nominee.

Aren't you the one who thinks that 60% of Americans are progressives, because some poll found that some isolated progressive ideas are well supported to that percentage? You'll find out, in November, why support for isolated policies in a poll is not the same as that person being a true progressive, and voting accordingly.

There is NO WAY for Bernie to become the POTUS if his campaign and his followers manage to alienate independents and moderates. NO WAY. NONE. There aren't enough progressives in the United States to win the election all by themselves, regardless of your misguided optimism.

In 2016, Hillary Clinton was arrogant and thought she could do it without Bernie. Instead of inviting Bernie as her veep, she got a bland moderate nobody. She thought she could do it all on her own. Well, she couldn't. There were lessons to be learned in that failure.

Just as much as Hillary, a moderate, couldn't win without the progressives, the progressives can't win without the moderates, either.

For the Dems to capture the White House, they will need a broad coalition, otherwise Trump will win. It's as simple as that.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

Well, I resent what you are saying. I'm a moderate. Like my avatar will show you, I'm a big Barack Obama fan. I helped both his campaigns all I could. I donated, I volunteered. No, I won't join the GOP.

Look, I always liked you. You are a nice guy, and intelligent.

Are you also making the mistake of saying, "oh well, we progressives don't need you moderates, screw them, let them join the GOP. We know better. We'll get it all solved on our own."

Because, you know what? You won't. Just as much as without you progressives, we left-leaning moderates won't win, without us, moderates, you progressives won't win either.

So instead of trying to offend and alienate moderates, maybe you should try for some unity of everybody who wants to beat Trump. That's the same mistake I was making when I was bashing progressives. I stopped. I am disappointed to see that you didn't.

Because, see... if you don't compromise and join with the moderates, what you'll get is another victory for the extreme right.

What do you prefer? Moderates, or the extreme right? Because me, I certainly prefer progressives to the extreme right.

You guys offended every working family who couldn't afford their health insurance policies because NO PUBLIC OPTION.
But we should just skip over that, right? That doesn't count, right?
Tell me ONE THING moderates have done that HELPED Obama or ANY other Democratic leader in the last forty years, that also helped the American working man, and didn't help Republicans MORE.
Just one thing.

I cited the Public Option but you clearly skipped right over that.
We would HAVE the public option but moderate Joe Lieberman had a moderate hissy fit.
The public option would have made insurance costs PLUMMET.

We didn't win in 2016 because we were trying SO HARD to look "moderate" that nearly EVERYONE HATED us.
You guys have had the reins for forty years...since 1980.
Has anything since 1980 improved the quality of life for the working class or lowered the cost of living or even compared remotely to what it was like during the New Deal era?
What is it exactly that "moderate" Dems DO other than try very hard to look and sound like moderate Republicans?
Notice that there ARE no moderate Republicans anymore?

Does it occur to you that a mostly moderate Democratic Party is used as TARGET PRACTICE by Republicans?
Instead of being upset because I won't bend over, why not address what I pointed out?

 

[Kerry Won Ohio]

The problem is he gets everything wrong. His answer for everything always comes down to centralizing more and more power with the national government.

If you call creating a level playing field for everybody "centralizing more and more power with the national government", then so be it.

What should concern you much more is the current President, who basically thinks he is a king and who just told Congress to **** off. And a bunch of cowardly Repug Congressmen and Repug Senators enthusiastically replied: "Yes Sir, we sure will **** off! And we will also take it up the ass from you if you'd like! Anything for our cult leader Donald Trump!".

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

In 2016, Hillary Clinton was arrogant and thought she could do it without Bernie. Instead of inviting Bernie as her veep, she got a bland moderate nobody. She thought she could do it all on her own. Well, she couldn't. There were lessons to be learned in that failure.

Just as much as Hillary, a moderate, couldn't win without the progressives, the progressives can't win without the moderates, either.

For the Dems to capture the White House, they will need a broad coalition, otherwise Trump will win. It's as simple as that.

Good, tell Amy to approach Bernie as a Veep, she is not going to win the nom, so it would be a good look for her, and it would make Bernie less scary for you.
Okay?

 

[Kerry Won Ohio]

My opinion of why Bernie has a problem winning this thing:

1. He is a self-proclaimed "socialist"....that's what people hear.
2. He is not even a Dem
3. He is a cult
4. It is idealists who are attracted to Bernie
5. We need someone like Amy Klobuchar to get things to a dull roar so we can see what needs to be done about the trainwreck Trump and his henchmen and women are leaving.
6. Immigration, health care, climate change, immigration....these things need attention NOW.
7. From all I read, Bernie is not good with math, he can't come up with financial numbers for his programs
8. I don't think Bernie's age detracts from those who are attracted to his message. But still, he is old and he is health-challenged in my view.
9. He's just not a very effective politician.

If Hillary Clinton couldn't defeat Trump, what makes you think boring, unremarkable Amy Kloubachar will? Ain't happening.

 

[Dans La Lune]

You are convinced that you don't need the moderates to win the November election with Bernie, right?

No, I’m saying I don’t need to ‘scare’ people about Biden to bolster Bernie.

 

[GreatNews2night]

You guys offended every working family who couldn't afford their health insurance policies because NO PUBLIC OPTION.
But we should just skip over that, right? That doesn't count, right?
Tell me ONE THING moderates have done that HELPED Obama or ANY other Democratic leader in the last forty years, that also helped the American working man, and didn't help Republicans MORE.
Just one thing.

I cited the Public Option but you clearly skipped right over that.
We would HAVE the public option but moderate Joe Lieberman had a moderate hissy fit.
The public option would have made insurance costs PLUMMET.

We didn't win in 2016 because we were trying SO HARD to look "moderate" that nearly EVERYONE HATED us.
You guys have had the reins for forty years...since 1980.
Has anything since 1980 improved the quality of life for the working class or lowered the cost of living or even compared remotely to what it was like during the New Deal era?
What is it exactly that "moderate" Dems DO other than try very hard to look and sound like moderate Republicans?
Notice that there ARE no moderate Republicans anymore?

Does it occur to you that a mostly moderate Democratic Party is used as TARGET PRACTICE by Republicans?
Instead of being upset because I won't bend over, why not address what I pointed out?

1. What you don't realize is that Barack Obama is a moderate. So, I can tell you ONE thing if you want: the Affordable Care Act. That was a moderate policy.
2. I'm for a public option. It didn't occur to me to address it because I never doubted that it is a good idea. It's by the way what Buttigieg, Biden, and Klobuchar are proposing, the 3 moderates in the race. Funny, huh?

 

[GreatNews2night]

Good, tell Amy to approach Bernie as a Veep, she is not going to win the nom, so it would be a good look for her, and it would make Bernie less scary for you.
Okay?

Certainly I'd love to see Amy as Bernie's veep.

But I think someone like Stacey Abrams would add more to Bernie's ticket, although she is also a progressive, not a moderate. She is to the left of Amy but she is to the right of Bernie. She is not as extreme as Bernie. But she adds something that Bernie desperately needs to win in November: minorities. Amy wouldn't add that.