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Why compromise is stupid

No it doesn't

An ambush is a firefight

The fight is over when one side stops fighting because they're: all dead/incapacitated, departed, or they surrender.
By the end of the firefight (the ambush), that maintenance company had non-functioning guns. The US Army says most guns were non-functional, the source I read at the time said not one soldier had a functioning weapon.

Here's another (unofficial) report:

"Buried deep within the latest news report on the deadly ambush of the 507th Transportation Maintenance Co. in Iraq on March 23, 2003, was a chilling nugget of information. It now appears that the soldiers who were killed or taken prisoner in that now-infamous firefight shared a common misfortune.

Their rifles had all jammed....
"


Wrong Lubricant, Jammed Weapons, Dead Soldiers


Contrary to army reports, Pte Lych did not fire any shots, because her gun had jammed.


Learn to lose gracefully.

Soldiers reported jams and still continued to return fire.

http://www.army.mil/features/507thMaintCmpy/AttackOnThe507MaintCmpy.pdf
 
Well if what you say is true Nevada is much like New Jersey in terms of fireworks but that's where the similarities end. In Nevada you can open carry, you can drink alcohol openly in some places such as Las Vegas although I wouldn't recommend carrying if you're drinking, And Dennis Hof, the owner of several legal brothels in the state, was going to be a senator I believe before he passed away so now some other Republican is serving in his place.

A brothel owner isn't a bad choice for a senator.
 
No it doesn't

An ambush is a firefight

The fight is over when one side stops fighting because they're: all dead/incapacitated, departed, or they surrender.
By the end of the firefight (the ambush), that maintenance company had non-functioning guns. The US Army says most guns were non-functional, the source I read at the time said not one soldier had a functioning weapon.

Here's another (unofficial) report:

"Buried deep within the latest news report on the deadly ambush of the 507th Transportation Maintenance Co. in Iraq on March 23, 2003, was a chilling nugget of information. It now appears that the soldiers who were killed or taken prisoner in that now-infamous firefight shared a common misfortune.

Their rifles had all jammed....
"


Wrong Lubricant, Jammed Weapons, Dead Soldiers


Contrary to army reports, Pte Lych did not fire any shots, because her gun had jammed.


Learn to lose gracefully.

Moving the goalposts again doesn't support your initial claim any better than it did the first time.
 
No, you're lack of understanding of what a military engagement is.

*your*

Non sequitur. Noting that you haven't supported your initial claim but have resorted to dishonest goalpost moves doesn't take a knowledge of military engagements. Just a basic understanding of English and a little rationality.

Besides, I probably have more time in the latrine than you have in the British Army. If you actually have any. 2yr Infantry REMF indeed.

Your latest goalpost move doesn't say what you think it does. Figure it out and get back to me.
 

Your - denotes possession
You're - is a contraction of "you are"


Non sequitur. Noting that you haven't supported your initial claim but have resorted to dishonest goalpost moves doesn't take a knowledge of military engagements.

No, you have a fundamental ignorance of the term involved

In short, you don't where the goal posts are


Besides, I probably have more time in the latrine than you have in the British Army....

I can imagine you spend a significant proportion of you life there
 
Or just a brick in it, all in all.

Oh no, there are tons and I mean tons of others just like me. We are not going to be moved so you're cause to have the kind of gun restrictions you talk about is a lost cause.
 
Oh no, there are tons and I mean tons of others just like me. We are not going to be moved so you're cause to have the kind of gun restrictions you talk about is a lost cause.

It takes lots of bricks to build a wall....all in all.
 
Your - denotes possession
You're - is a contraction of "you are"




No, you have a fundamental ignorance of the term involved

In short, you don't where the goal posts are




I can imagine you spend a significant proportion of you life there

*your*
 
On the flip side we maintained our firearms in garrison and in the field (Somalia).

Mandatory rifle cleanings for three days after and range detail and weekly inspections in the field.

Being on the air side we had a "secret weapon". A vendor got us TW25B.

A semi-dry lubricant. Sand would not stick to it in the field. It wouldn't evaporate as did other lubes.

For a while similar lube was issued by the army, it worked wonders when used right, but they went back to clp, I am not sure if it was cost or they found an issue with the lube.

Either way weekly inspections are needed in many army units for rifles, many would never clean their crap if not forced to, and many who are not directly in combat arms do not know how to even take them apart, like they remembered just enough to get through basic training then pushed that knowledge out of their head after like they thought they would never need it again.

I had to do customs enforcement on another unit to clear them to leave country, their mobile arms room was covered in about an inch of sand on the floor, the rifles were brown color from the sand sticking to them, I told them to sanitize the room and all the rifles or they would not be cleared to return to the us, they used compressed air to blow the room out still leaving everything dust covered. I made them take out all the rifles and clean them as well as the racks and the floor, this level of cleaning though was not for rifle cleanliness but rather that the sand/dust could carry parasites to america that could bring disease to crops and wildlife potentially wiping out crops. But being the point though they literally did not care, and considered their mobile arms room being covered in dust and their rifles brown from dust sticking to them as normal, I imagine if they had to use them in combat all of them would fail which is why I am a believer in inspections and enforcement.
 
For a while similar lube was issued by the army, it worked wonders when used right, but they went back to clp, I am not sure if it was cost or they found an issue with the lube.

Either way weekly inspections are needed in many army units for rifles, many would never clean their crap if not forced to, and many who are not directly in combat arms do not know how to even take them apart, like they remembered just enough to get through basic training then pushed that knowledge out of their head after like they thought they would never need it again.

I had to do customs enforcement on another unit to clear them to leave country, their mobile arms room was covered in about an inch of sand on the floor, the rifles were brown color from the sand sticking to them, I told them to sanitize the room and all the rifles or they would not be cleared to return to the us, they used compressed air to blow the room out still leaving everything dust covered. I made them take out all the rifles and clean them as well as the racks and the floor, this level of cleaning though was not for rifle cleanliness but rather that the sand/dust could carry parasites to america that could bring disease to crops and wildlife potentially wiping out crops. But being the point though they literally did not care, and considered their mobile arms room being covered in dust and their rifles brown from dust sticking to them as normal, I imagine if they had to use them in combat all of them would fail which is why I am a believer in inspections and enforcement.

We used TW25B on everything from Berretas to M197 20MM gatlings. Never had an issue.

It was probably price. Same thing happened when we tried to get Citriclean authorized for use.
 
May be in the US army, but not so in the British army where weapon maintenance is close to an obsession.
I was just a REMF myself but our weapons had to be clean.

On exercise I suppose a small group could get lazy but a whole company in a war zone ?




I guess that's true, cleaning weapons is boring. That's where leadership comes in. If leadership doesn't do their job, next you have poor weapon handling and NDs




That excuse wouldn't fly in the British army. Before turning a weapon in back to the armory, it is inspected.
The officer or sergeant makes time.

If the incident where Pte Lynch was captured was in the British army, there would be hell to pay and a few demotions to boot.



OMG that's incredible, was no-one charged over that ?

No-one disciplined at all ?

an entire company can easily be lazy, if no enforcement of standards or inspections occur soldiers will often ignore simple cleaning and functions checks.


that stuff does not fly in the american military except when it does, you saying so does not mean it does not occur over there as well, if standards are not enforced soldiers do not live by them, and every military worldwide has had issues with non enforement of standards, and will so long as humans exist as so long someone thinks they can get away with half standards will,and there is always someone willing to half meet a standard anywhere in the world no matter how many got busted down for not meeting standards.
 
an entire company can easily be lazy, if no enforcement of standards or inspections occur soldiers will often ignore simple cleaning and functions checks.

An entire company? No that requires a major failing in leadership

And in a war zone ?


that stuff does not fly in the american military except when it does, you saying so does not mean it does not occur over there as well, if standards are not enforced soldiers do not live by them, and every military worldwide has had issues with non enforement of standards, and will so long as humans exist as so long someone thinks they can get away with half standards will,and there is always someone willing to half meet a standard anywhere in the world no matter how many got busted down for not meeting standards.

No unit I was ever with didn't inspect the weapons.

Yes I can accept it happens with small units but a whole company in a war zone didn't keep their weapons functional ?


Maybe this was a blessing in disguise - I wonder what the fallout was ?
 
An entire company? No that requires a major failing in leadership

And in a war zone ?




No unit I was ever with didn't inspect the weapons.

Yes I can accept it happens with small units but a whole company in a war zone didn't keep their weapons functional ?


Maybe this was a blessing in disguise - I wonder what the fallout was ?

Failures in leadership are common thing, worldwide, and soldiers only follow standards as long as standards are enforced, and that requires the upper and middle levels of leadership to enforce those standards.


I will give you a hint, Dealing with soldiers from multiple nations they all let things slide and get lazy to some extent, what seperates to powerful armies from the weak is their efforts to keep good discipline and order, and even the best nations will always find bad units, bad individuals etc. For example how do you micromanage commanders and senior nco's when they file reports all the time, how do you know they are not pencil whipping that stuff if you are sitting at hq and reading the numbers on a sheet. The us army found that to actually happen during the gulf war, where units shifted assets and found firearms, helicopters, aircraft etc shipped to kuwait in good order only to find the numbers were fudged and much of it was broke ling before it shipped.


The national guard and reserves were the biggest offenders of that during the gulf war however the problem extended to the active army as well. The result became comet inspections, where they dig through all maintenace, maintenace records, inspect gear for proper repairs, and verify standards are being kept, so there would not be a repeat of the gulf war where we ship out 100 tanks but find out x amount were doa because xyz unit pencil whipped everything and faked the numbers rather than meeting standards.
 
Failures in leadership are common thing, worldwide, and soldiers only follow standards as long as standards are enforced, and that requires the upper and middle levels of leadership to enforce those standards.


I will give you a hint, Dealing with soldiers from multiple nations they all let things slide and get lazy to some extent, what seperates to powerful armies from the weak is their efforts to keep good discipline and order, and even the best nations will always find bad units, bad individuals etc. For example how do you micromanage commanders and senior nco's when they file reports all the time, how do you know they are not pencil whipping that stuff if you are sitting at hq and reading the numbers on a sheet. The us army found that to actually happen during the gulf war, where units shifted assets and found firearms, helicopters, aircraft etc shipped to kuwait in good order only to find the numbers were fudged and much of it was broke ling before it shipped.


The national guard and reserves were the biggest offenders of that during the gulf war however the problem extended to the active army as well. The result became comet inspections, where they dig through all maintenace, maintenace records, inspect gear for proper repairs, and verify standards are being kept, so there would not be a repeat of the gulf war where we ship out 100 tanks but find out x amount were doa because xyz unit pencil whipped everything and faked the numbers rather than meeting standards.


Soldiers are just people of course but too lazy to maintain a weapon, and they're professional soldiers ?
And if their professionalism isn't enough, you think the fact they were in a war zone might persuade them to ?
Obviously not

If that is the ca and if leadership in the US army wasn't to be relied on, the US Army needs a much simpler weapon, like the AK-74
It requires much less training.
If you don't like the round, build them chambered for 7.62x51mm NATO if you like.

Trump had good ties with Russia, how much wold a contract to build them under license cost ?
 
Soldiers are just people of course but too lazy to maintain a weapon, and they're professional soldiers ?
And if their professionalism isn't enough, you think the fact they were in a war zone might persuade them to ?
Obviously not

If that is the ca and if leadership in the US army wasn't to be relied on, the US Army needs a much simpler weapon, like the AK-74
It requires much less training.
If you don't like the round, build them chambered for 7.62x51mm NATO if you like.

Trump had good ties with Russia, how much wold a contract to build them under license cost ?

professional soldiers can be that lazy hence why leadership needs to enforce standards, and why top brass need to enforce standards on leaders who enforce leadership, and why things like comet inspections exist to make sure no one is fudging the numbers to look good on paper but bad in reality.


Fyi the ak-47 is rugged but does require cleaning. It was made to loose tolerances to handle extreme cold, heat,sand, humidity and nearly every extreme across the broad soviet union and neighboring countries if they chose to invade, as well as account for logistics being unable to supply cleaning kits and oils in a reasonable manner giving some wiggle room.

TYhe ak-47 though is not maintenence free however, it will jam just like an m-16 or any other rifle if neglected, it just has more leniency in terms of cleanliness.
 
professional soldiers can be that lazy hence why leadership needs to enforce standards...

Absolutely
But professional soldiers need to take a hard look at themselves - they behaved like conscripts in a third world army.
Does the M-16 platform get any blame for this ?


Fyi the ak-47 is rugged but does require cleaning. It was made to loose tolerances to handle extreme cold, heat,sand, humidity and nearly every extreme across the broad soviet union and neighboring countries if they chose to invade, as well as account for logistics being unable to supply cleaning kits and oils in a reasonable manner giving some wiggle room.

I watched a show on the AK, one interviewee said he once saw an Afghan dip his bootlace in motor oil and pull the barrel through and that was all he did to keep he weapon functioning.

Yes I suppose any weapon with fail given enough dirt but the AK seem to handle more than most other modern guns.

Would the US military be better served with a simpler design like the AK for REMF units ?
 
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