"White House seeks to clarify Trump remarks on emergency"

[j-mac]

When I want answers to scientific issues, I find and read what the scientists say.
I will seek a pastor only if I want answers for theological issues, and even then I will be aware that I will just get answers based on the pastor's particular interpretation of sacred texts. If I ask a rabbi or an orthodox christian priest, they will tell me that the Old Testament should not be translated literally. If I ask an Evangelical, he will tell me that the Old Testament should be translated literally.

All these show why it makes zero sense to mix in the same scientific classes religious theories such as creationism and scientific theories such as evolution. In the end, the whole thing about creationism is just an attempt of some religious fundamentalists, mostly in the American South, to promote their version of religious interpretations by wrapping them with a veil of pseudoscience to convince more people about the truth of their religious dogma. .

Hmmmm....You seem angry...Did you not write this?

"Let's accept for a minute that there is God and that this God is the one described in the Old Testament (and both beliefs are veryyyyyyy questionable). Even in this scenario, why is the Evangelical interpretation of the Old Testament superior to the Jewish one which believes in the same God but without showing any disrespect to modern science and modern scientific theories?"

See, you want me to speak for Evangelicals, but I'm telling you bro, you're asking the wrong person.....That seems to have set you off....I am uninterested in your hatred for organized religion...Take that up with a Pastor...

 

[pamak]

Hmmmm....You seem angry...Did you not write this?

"Let's accept for a minute that there is God and that this God is the one described in the Old Testament (and both beliefs are veryyyyyyy questionable). Even in this scenario, why is the Evangelical interpretation of the Old Testament superior to the Jewish one which believes in the same God but without showing any disrespect to modern science and modern scientific theories?"

See, you want me to speak for Evangelicals, but I'm telling you bro, you're asking the wrong person.....That seems to have set you off....I am uninterested in your hatred for organized religion...Take that up with a Pastor...

I have nothing with organized religion as long as it stays an organized religion and does not try to pass as organized science!

 

[j-mac]

I have nothing with organized religion as long as it stays an organized religion and does not try to pass as organized science!

Sure doesn't seem that way....lol

 

[pamak]

Sure doesn't seem that way....lol

Did you see me attacking Judaism for this issue?
Did you see me attacking Orthodox Christians for this issue?
As I said: I have nothing with organized religion as long as it stays an organized religion and does not try to pass as organized science!
This means that if religious believers try to pass their dogma as science, just like many American Evangelicals try to do in the American South, I certainly take issues with it.

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

Nope!

If you use HIS definition of "religion" it is.

On the other hand, if you use the definition of "religion" that the rest of the world uses, it isn't.

Such view shows that you do not know the difference between a theory which is the result of the scientific method and a theory which is NOT the result of the scientific method.

Picky point, but that really should be "between a theory which has been tested (and not disproved) using the scientific method, and a theory which has NOT been tested (and disproved) using the scientific method". ALL theories start out as the equivalent of "I wonder IF __[fill in the blank]__ causes __[fill in the blank]__." and it's only AFTER that point that the scientific method comes in. Serendipitous discoveries shortcut that process a bit by giving rise to the equivalent of "WOW, it looks like __[fill in the blank]__ causes __[fill in the blank]__, I wonder if that's true." - whereupon scientific method kicks in in an effort to convert that guess into a theory.

Here is a site with a basic lesson about how the scientific method works...

The scientific method (article) |
Khan Academy

Make an observation.
Ask a question.
Form a hypothesis, or testable explanation.
Make a prediction based on the hypothesis.
Test the prediction.
Iterate: use the results to make new hypotheses or predictions.

If a theory is not testable and cannot make predictions, it is not a scientific theory.

Teaching pigs calculus won't turn them into brain surgeons.

Now can you tell me what are the predictions of the Evangelical, Old Testament based theories and how they have matched our observations?

Please be prepared for something along the lines of

"The time for the events that the (Evangelical interpretation of the ) Old Testament predicts will occur has not yet arrived. This proves that the predicted events of the (Evangelical interpretation of the ) Old Testament have been accurately predicted because if they had occurred then the predictions would not have been accurate.".
​

The problem with those who argue that creationism and other such theories should be taught side by side with scientific theories is that these people do not have even the most basic knowledge about what the scientific method is and how one should examine and study scientific theories.

Actually there IS some possibility that the "Creationists" could be right - just as there is a possibility that the "Evolutionists could be right. Those possibilities do, however, differ. The table below illustrates the relative likelihoods.

[table="width: 750, class: grid"]
[tr]
[td]EVENT[/td]
[td]RELATIVE LIKELIHOOD
(by analogy)[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Creationists are correct[/td]
[td]TU Curmudgeon defeats both the Republican and the Democrat candidates and is elected President of the United States of America in 2020[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Evolutionists are correct[/td]
[td]Either the Democrat or the Republican candidate defeats all other candidates and is elected President of the United States of America in 2020[/td]
[/tr]
[/table]
​

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

I don't debate by agreeing to let you set the parameters....You're a very dishonest person.

Which is the usual reaction of those who are completely bereft of any valid argument.

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

The irony here is declaring an emergency has now put his speed up process farther away.

But Mr. Trump WON because he now has the power to build "The Wall" and the only thing that is going to stop him is the dishonest, reprehensible, anti-American, petty, bickering of a bunch of people whose loyalty to the United States of America is (at BEST) "questionable who are misusing the power vested in them by the Constitution of the United States of America in order to turn America into a **S**O*C*I*A*L*I*S*T** state governed by Sherry Law where all the Cheerleaders have to wear Burke Hats and the children are all given fluoridation vaccine by members of Death Squads.

Right?

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

Did you see me attacking Judaism for this issue?
Did you see me attacking Orthodox Christians for this issue?
As I said: I have nothing with organized religion as long as it stays an organized religion and does not try to pass as organized science!
This means that if religious believers try to pass their dogma as science, just like many American Evangelicals try to do in the American South, I certainly take issues with it.

To the TRUE believer, their beliefs are NOT "religion" they are "Revealed Truth". As far as they are concerned, "Religion" is what other people call their FALSE beliefs in a pitiful effort to give them some sort of pseudo-legitimacy in some sort of vain (and probably "Devil Inspired") attempt to subvert the real true "Revealed Truth".

 

[ElChupacabra]

But Mr. Trump WON because he now has the power to build "The Wall" and the only thing that is going to stop him is the dishonest, reprehensible, anti-American, petty, bickering of a bunch of people whose loyalty to the United States of America is (at BEST) "questionable who are misusing the power vested in them by the Constitution of the United States of America in order to turn America into a **S**O*C*I*A*L*I*S*T** state governed by Sherry Law where all the Cheerleaders have to wear Burke Hats and the children are all given fluoridation vaccine by members of Death Squads.

Right?

In some other post I mentioned how this is a great scapegoat for Trump if the wall doesn't get built. Blaming Socialists, Marxists, Democrats, et al. makes it easy for Trump to deflect the obvious failure of him pushing this through his negotiating abilities.

 

[Carleen]

But Mr. Trump WON because he now has the power to build "The Wall" and the only thing that is going to stop him is the dishonest, reprehensible, anti-American, petty, bickering of a bunch of people whose loyalty to the United States of America is (at BEST) "questionable who are misusing the power vested in them by the Constitution of the United States of America in order to turn America into a **S**O*C*I*A*L*I*S*T** state governed by Sherry Law where all the Cheerleaders have to wear Burke Hats and the children are all given fluoridation vaccine by members of Death Squads.

Right?

Your rant has nothing to do with what I posted. Start a new thread to air your complaint.

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

In some other post I mentioned how this is a great scapegoat for Trump if the wall doesn't get built. Blaming Socialists, Marxists, Democrats, et al. makes it easy for Trump to deflect the obvious failure of him pushing this through his negotiating abilities.

The one absolute, invariable, constant in Mr. Trump's world is that it is ALWAYS someone else's fault.

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

Your rant has nothing to do with what I posted. Start a new thread to air your complaint.

I believe that you missed the point. I was dealing directly with your "has now put his speed up process farther away".

Mr. Trump HAD to (don't pay any attention to any Fake News that has him saying anything to the contrary) declare a national emergency and the **F*A*U*L*T** for pushing him into that position lies with "the dishonest, reprehensible, anti-American, petty, bickering of a bunch of people whose loyalty to the United States of America is (at BEST) "questionable who are misusing the power vested in them by the Constitution of the United States of America in order to turn America into a **S**O*C*I*A*L*I*S*T** state governed by Sherry Law where all the Cheerleaders have to wear Burke Hats and the children are all given fluoridation vaccine by members of Death Squads".

That the declaration of a national emergency has pushed off Mr. Trump's triumphal completion of "The Wall" (the Greatest Construction Project in the history of the United States of America) is, therefore all the **F*A*U*L*T** of "the dishonest, reprehensible, anti-American, petty, bickering of a bunch of people whose loyalty to the United States of America is (at BEST) "questionable who are misusing the power vested in them by the Constitution of the United States of America in order to turn America into a **S**O*C*I*A*L*I*S*T** state governed by Sherry Law where all the Cheerleaders have to wear Burke Hats and the children are all given fluoridation vaccine by members of Death Squads." AND none of the responsibility of Mr. Trump.

Right?

 

[Nickyjo]

Really? You don't think he meant "it didn't need to come to this"?

Actually, that is an interesting and plausible interpretation, one that made me stop and think. (Given that The Godfather is the source of all wisdom, the comment reminds me of the big meeting of the dons who wonder how the Mafia war got so out of control.). But the point loses some of its force because he really can’t explain how the border situation is an emergency. I don’t understand why Trump has so much trouble addressing an issue without demonizing people. He guarantees that people will think he is a racist jerk by speaking like a racist jerk. He starts his political career with the Central Park Five. Then moves on to birther stuff. Then he announces his candidacy with the Mexican rapist thing. All of the issues might deserve comment from a public figure who is asked about them. He chose to make inaccurate or lying or offensive statements about all three. The border is a problem, though a diminishing one in recent years. But does he really feel that appealing to our baser instincts is the way to push good public policy? Does he think that little of his supporters?

 

[Carleen]

I believe that you missed the point. I was dealing directly with your "has now put his speed up process farther away".

Mr. Trump HAD to (don't pay any attention to any Fake News that has him saying anything to the contrary) declare a national emergency and the **F*A*U*L*T** for pushing him into that position lies with "the dishonest, reprehensible, anti-American, petty, bickering of a bunch of people whose loyalty to the United States of America is (at BEST) "questionable who are misusing the power vested in them by the Constitution of the United States of America in order to turn America into a **S**O*C*I*A*L*I*S*T** state governed by Sherry Law where all the Cheerleaders have to wear Burke Hats and the children are all given fluoridation vaccine by members of Death Squads".

That the declaration of a national emergency has pushed off Mr. Trump's triumphal completion of "The Wall" (the Greatest Construction Project in the history of the United States of America) is, therefore all the **F*A*U*L*T** of "the dishonest, reprehensible, anti-American, petty, bickering of a bunch of people whose loyalty to the United States of America is (at BEST) "questionable who are misusing the power vested in them by the Constitution of the United States of America in order to turn America into a **S**O*C*I*A*L*I*S*T** state governed by Sherry Law where all the Cheerleaders have to wear Burke Hats and the children are all given fluoridation vaccine by members of Death Squads." AND none of the responsibility of Mr. Trump.

Right?

Totally wrong IMO

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

Really? You don't think he meant "it didn't need to come to this"?

If his "I didn't have to do this ..." had NOT been coupled with his "... but I'd rather do this much faster." that possible interpretation of a portion of what he did say might have been more plausible.

Unfortunately for your possible interpretation it WAS.

Since it was, I'd put your possible interpretation almost into the same category as a mass murderer's "I didn't know what I was doing and I'm sorry that I killed those 10 kids ..." would fall into if it had been coupled with "... because I was really trying to kill at least 60 and set a new record. I really should have done more firearms training.".

Which is NOT to say that I am comparing Mr. Trump to a mass murderer (although I fully expect his supporters to claim that I am).

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

Totally wrong IMO

I think that you missed the "Right?" bit.

Of course

That the declaration of a national emergency has pushed off Mr. Trump's triumphal completion of "The Wall" (the Greatest Construction Project in the history of the United States of America) is, therefore all the **F*A*U*L*T** of "the dishonest, reprehensible, anti-American, petty, bickering of a bunch of people whose loyalty to the United States of America is (at BEST) "questionable who are misusing the power vested in them by the Constitution of the United States of America in order to turn America into a **S**O*C*I*A*L*I*S*T** state governed by Sherry Law where all the Cheerleaders have to wear Burke Hats and the children are all given fluoridation vaccine by members of Death Squads." AND none of the responsibility of Mr. Trump.
​

is "totally wrong" - in my opinion as well as in your opinion.

However that doesn't mean anything at all because it is **T*O*T*A*L*L*Y** **R*I*G*H*T** in the opinion of Mr. Trump and his supporters.

 

[roguenuke]

Democrats supported the erection of walls with billions of dollars before Trump got elected. Now democrats hate Trump, American patriots and American values and traditions, and will destroy the government if necessary to get Trump and republicans out of their progressive commie Bolshevik way.

No they didn't. Most Dems supported building a fence, maybe. Not a wall.

So most Americans hate those things simply because they disagree with building a wall? What kind of nonsense is this? As someone who is in the military, which means that a significant portion of funds that he is trying to divert to the wall should be going for other things to actually help the military and I care dearly about that, I don't see how you could come to such a ridiculous conclusion.

 

[roguenuke]

Of course. They do not want walls built on the American border edges of their property no matter how dangerous our nation is without the security of the walls.

Our nation will be just as dangerous with or without border walls. Provide evidence from real research to show I'm wrong if you disagree.

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

Democrats supported the erection of walls with billions of dollars before Trump got elected. Now democrats hate Trump, American patriots and American values and traditions, and will destroy the government if necessary to get Trump and republicans out of their progressive commie Bolshevik way.

And I am sure that you would prefer a "regressive, capitalist, Oligarchic" way (provided that you get to be one of the Oligarchs).

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

Of course. They do not want walls built on the American border edges of their property no matter how dangerous our nation is without the security of the walls.

Once in a while you actually say something that I agree with, and this is one of those times.

I completely agree that the United States of America will continue to be as dangerous as it has always been with, or without, "the security of the walls".

 

[marke]

No they didn't. Most Dems supported building a fence, maybe. Not a wall.

Of course democrats want an ineffective measly fence instead of a wall because a wall will stop potential illegal immigrant democrat voters from getting into the US to vote illegally, as so many have been doing for decades with corrupt democrat help.

 

[marke]

Our nation will be just as dangerous with or without border walls. Provide evidence from real research to show I'm wrong if you disagree.

Our dangerous nation will have fewer illegal border crossings where walls are built to stop mass border crossings in those areas.

 

[marke]

And I am sure that you would prefer a "regressive, capitalist, Oligarchic" way (provided that you get to be one of the Oligarchs).

What is a capitalistic oligarch? A government which restricts the efforts of commie totalitarians to seize brutal control of a nation by hook or crooked crook?

 

[roguenuke]

Of course democrats want an ineffective measly fence instead of a wall because a wall will stop potential illegal immigrant democrat voters from getting into the US to vote illegally, as so many have been doing for decades with corrupt democrat help.

You have failed to provide any support of documentation or research to support such an assertion, at all.

 

[roguenuke]

Our dangerous nation will have fewer illegal border crossings where walls are built to stop mass border crossings in those areas.

How many fewer? How many "mass border crossings" happen now? Please provide documentation. How "dangerous" is our nation exactly? And how is stopping the illegal border crossings going to make it less dangerous? How much less dangerous will it make us? Where do you get information to support this belief from?

There is plenty of research and data that shows that a border wall will do very little to make our borders safer. Heck, border towns have a lower crime rate than most non-border towns (equivalents). There is no evidence that stopping border crossings in any area will significantly reduce illegal immigration, especially since there are at least hundred+ tunnels under the border that are used to import most of the truly bad things that people are worried about coming across the border. The wall will do nothing to stop that. Many other things, including people coming in illegally, simply use controlled border entry points to come across either through legal means or illegal. The least effective way to stop illegal immigration and/or moving of contraband and illegal substances/items from the south into our country is to build a border wall, because all of those things already move into our country through other points that will not be blocked by a wall.