When its too late for an abortion

[Waddy]

Or, you know, medical terms actually mean something when you're not trying to make an appeal to emotion fallacy, which is as ever-present as ever.



I would just like to point out that you are the one that brought up how many children are out there for adoption. Like I said, you moved the goal posts. The topic at hand is children, abortion and what happens to them after birth. Adoption is entirely relevant to this conversation, especially if you're going to go down the route of "there are alternatives to abortion". Additionally, for all those people who are "waiting" for the call that there's going to be a newborn for adoption, I would call those people out as well, considering there ARE 100K children/babies/infants/toddlers/pre-adolescents/teens/young adults to be adopted. I would even go so far as to call someone like that selfish and self-centered. (I can already hear the huffing "How dare he call someone who wants a newborn selfish!")

~~

I do respect you for saying that you aren't lobbying that anything happen to these women or that you think it should be illegal. You just find it immoral. Beyond that, I think there isn't a lot for me to continue on with this conversation with you. Neither of us is going to convince the other to change their thought processes. You're emotionally involved, as am I.

Exactly.

 

[Waddy]

Who says? What authority? Not US laws or the Constitution or multiple SCOTUS decisions (made with conservative benches)

The higher duty is to the contributing member of society. The unborn may never achieve that, it may be miscarried, it may be born severely defective.

The higher duty is to the currently reproductively successful adult who can then, in the future, reproduce at a more advantageous time. A mother who cannot support a child or care for it responsibly would be a burden to society, at least in the short term and possibly longer.

The higher duty is to the conscious woman who would know and suffer pain and harm (physically, socially, legally) if she were not allowed to have an abortion. The higher duty would NOT be to add to her burden and pain.

Interesting phrasing 'higher duty.' So I ran with it, thanks.

as A parent your duty is to your child.

 

[year2late]

no it's not. We just saw that it's perfectly legal to kill babies who survive abortions.

Care to back up your statement?

Or are you just throwing crap up against a wall to see what sticks?

 

[iamjohngault]

There is lots of talk about banning abortion after the third trimester or after the pregnancy has gone on for a certain time. Well the fact of the matter is this, as soon as the egg is fertilized its too late for an abortion.

A conservative supreme court appointed by conservative presidents disagree with you. I am glad you have never been in a situation that made you question this from a personal perspective-it must be nice. Of course, its already a human when fertilized. And have your viewpoint but shaming women for this hard choice is just as regretable as having an abortion. I wished God would have addressed this issue in the bible but he clearly did not. Maybe because its not really an issue. Good thing you don't make decisions for others because it is not your choice.

 

[Lursa]

as A parent your duty is to your child.

Not if you dont have a child

Were you going to answer the "who says?" and "what authority?" questions?

 

[Scrabaholic]

That's what you are claiming.

Prove it.

 

[Waddy]

Prove it.

don't have to prove the obvious. You claimed since I can't get pregnant I should have no opinion on abortion. Just extrapolating that idea means you're saying if an issue doesn't affect someone personally they should have no opinion. You said it, not me. It's your idea. Own it.

 

[Waddy]

Not if you dont have a child

Were you going to answer the "who says?" and "what authority?" questions?

Doesn't need an "authority". It's been true since life began. Your first duty is to your child. Just is. You're a lousy parent otherwise.

 

[Scrabaholic]

don't have to prove the obvious. You claimed since I can't get pregnant I should have no opinion on abortion.

I did not say that. Please do not lie about me again.

 

[Scrabaholic]

Doesn't need an "authority". It's been true since life began. Your first duty is to your child. Just is. You're a lousy parent otherwise.

Children are born. Many women do abort out of a duty to their (born) child(ren) - when they cannot afford another mouth to feed and do not want to take food etc from their existing child(ren).

 

[Lursa]

Doesn't need an "authority". It's been true since life began. Your first duty is to your child. Just is. You're a lousy parent otherwise.

Who says? I can write 'unicorns are out on my lawn.' Doesnt make it true.

And again, you arent a parent if there's no child :doh

 

[noonereal]

Who says? I can write 'unicorns are out on my lawn.' Doesnt make it true.

And again, you arent a parent if there's no child :doh

Trust us, we know you see unicorns on your front lawn.

 

[Lursa]

Trust us, we know you see unicorns on your front lawn.

Funny...I wrote it wasnt true...do YOU see unicorns on my front lawn?

 

[noonereal]

Funny...I wrote it wasnt true..

Not there today?

Don't worry, they will be back.

 

[Lursa]

Not there today?

Don't worry, they will be back.

Cool beans, I'd hate to miss that. Ping me when you see them again.

 

[noonereal]

Cool beans, I'd hate to miss that. Ping me when you see them again.

Dude, only you see them,.

 

[Lursa]

Dude, only you see them,.

No, I wrote differently...perhaps you should check your reading and overall observations.

Because I'm also not a dude and it's right there to see. :lamo

 

[noonereal]

Because I'm also not a dude

identify however you like

I am fine with that.

 

[Lursa]

identify however you like

I am fine with that.

That's ok, but I hope I didnt spoil any of your other fantasies then, since you're still waiting on the unicorns.

 

[Waddy]

I did not say that. Please do not lie about me again.

post 545.

you will never endure the risks of pregnancy, will you?

That infers that since I will never get pregnant, I should not have an opinion.

 

[Waddy]

Children are born. Many women do abort out of a duty to their (born) child(ren) - when they cannot afford another mouth to feed and do not want to take food etc from their existing child(ren).

and, yet, those same women could have that unwanted baby adopted out without affecting their existing children. Problem solved.

 

[Waddy]

Who says? I can write 'unicorns are out on my lawn.' Doesnt make it true.

And again, you arent a parent if there's no child :doh

The fact that you don't consider children a first priority says a lot.
And it depends on what you consider a "child". many people believe humanity begins at conception. Opinions will vary.

 

[minnie616]

and, yet, those same women could have that unwanted baby adopted out without affecting their existing children. Problem solved.

You are forgetting the woman is likely to lose her job if she remains pregnant.

In the following <SNIP> a women with 5 children tells of her struggles to try to raise money for an abortion when her husband was laid off his job during the last recession and she found out she was expecting again. Because they loved their children very much they decided she needed an abortion.She took her wedding ring and other items to a pawn shop but still did not have enough to pay the abortion so she aked for help funding the abortion:

Here is a <SNIP> from her story.

Sonia has 5 kids and her husband was just laid off.

I love my big family...and I love my children too much to have another baby right now.

My husband and I have five children. We love kids and we love having a big family. But when my husband got laid off from his contractor job, having a big family got really hard.

When I found out I was pregnant again, it was terrifying. We love the idea of another child -- but we love the children we have too much to add that kind of stress to our family right now.

I'm only working part-time and I couldn't get maternity leave, so I might not be able to keep my job with another little one.

I hated that we had to make this decision, but it turned out that making the decision was the easiest part. Because then we had to find the money to pay for an abortion.

We started taking stuff to the pawn shop: our vacuum cleaner, my wedding ring, our family television, the old desktop computer. When that wasn't enough, we took my husband's tools and his drills.

That was the hardest trip. My husband's been trying to pick up construction work. Without his tools or his drills, there's hardly anyone who'll hire him.

And after all that, we were short on what we needed. But the woman at the clinic gave us the name of an abortion fund.

An abortion fund. Who knew, right?

They gave us what we needed.

And when I broke down on the phone and admitted that we didn't even have gas money to get to the clinic, they helped us with that, too.

So now I pay the pawn shop every month to keep our things -- my wedding ring and my husband's tools are the only ones we can afford to pay on. And if you miss a month, the payment is doubled from then on. So we're stuck in this cycle. We'll be paying for this abortion for a long time.

But the panic is gone. The rest of it, well...we'll figure it out. We'll do whatever we have to do to take care of our family.

Sonia has 5 kids and her husband was just laid off. | Fund Abortion Now.org

 

[Waddy]

You are forgetting the woman is likely to lose her job if she remains pregnant.

In the following <SNIP> a women with 5 children tells of her struggles to try to raise money for an abortion when her husband was laid off his job during the last recession and she found out she was expecting again. Because they loved their children very much they decided she needed an abortion.She took her wedding ring and other items to a pawn shop but still did not have enough to pay the abortion so she aked for help funding the abortion:

Here is a <SNIP> from her story.



Sonia has 5 kids and her husband was just laid off. | Fund Abortion Now.org

A sad story. Sorry it ended with an abortion, as the birth mother obviously didn't want to have an abortion. However, I'm sure there is an adoptive couple out there who would have gladly helped with those expenses. There are both public and private agencies that will help with expenses and placement. My daughter, who is a professional, and her husband, an airline pilot, paid over over $40k to pay the expenses for a young woman who gave birth and gave her baby to them to adopt. Those were living expenses and whatever other expenses she needed help with to carry the baby to term. It is an "open" adoption. That baby is now an 8 year old, doing well in school, and they all still keep in touch. The birth mother visits about twice a year. Giving a baby up for adoption can be a win-win. The adoptive parents fulfill a dream and the birth mother doesn't have to carry around a lot of guilt. All of them are happy with their decisions.

And, yes, placing newborns with severe birth defects and placing older children is a problem. But all healthy newborns can be placed with adoptive parents; you know, the ones who wait years for that call. So I understand the decision, at times, to abort severely birth defected babies, but the vast majority are born healthy. They deserve a chance.

 

[Individual]

A sad story. Sorry it ended with an abortion, as the birth mother obviously didn't want to have an abortion. However, I'm sure there is an adoptive couple out there who would have gladly helped with those expenses. There are both public and private agencies that will help with expenses and placement. My daughter, who is a professional, and her husband, an airline pilot, paid over over $40k to pay the expenses for a young woman who gave birth and gave her baby to them to adopt. Those were living expenses and whatever other expenses she needed help with to carry the baby to term. It is an "open" adoption. That baby is now an 8 year old, doing well in school, and they all still keep in touch. The birth mother visits about twice a year. Giving a baby up for adoption can be a win-win. The adoptive parents fulfill a dream and the birth mother doesn't have to carry around a lot of guilt. All of them are happy with their decisions.

And, yes, placing newborns with severe birth defects and placing older children is a problem. But all healthy newborns can be placed with adoptive parents; you know, the ones who wait years for that call. So I understand the decision, at times, to abort severely birth defected babies, but the vast majority are born healthy. They deserve a chance.

no it's not. We just saw that it's perfectly legal to kill babies who survive abortions.

1. The choice, to abort or not, IMO is solely the right of the woman to make, regardless of others opinions.

2. Several of us have asked, "where?", but have yet to see an answer.