When "gender fluidity" means "take off your clothes in front of this opposite-sex person, or else"

[Bodi]

Re: When "gender fluidity" means "take off your clothes in front of this opposite-sex person, or els

Muslim Male Inmate Objects to Strip Search by Apparently Anatomically Female Transgender Guard


The Muslim part is apparently included because the lawsuit is based on the Religious Land Use and Institutionalized Persons Act, but I find it pretty much irrelevant. The conduct appears to violate 28 CFR 115.15 (regulations implementing the Prison Rape Elimination Act of 2003) on its face.

Thoughts? Should prison inmates (including jail detainees who've only been arrested, not even convicted) be forced to take their clothes off in front of someone who is the opposite sex simply because they claim to "identify" with the other sex? Should a female detainee be forced to take off her clothes in front of a male officer who says, gruffly, "don't worry, I identify as a woman"?

Get sent to prison or jail then you lose your rights to whine like a ****ing bigot.

**** him. Deal with what is thrown at you.

 

[Kal'Stang]

Re: When "gender fluidity" means "take off your clothes in front of this opposite-sex person, or els

Get sent to prison or jail then you lose your rights to whine like a ****ing bigot.

**** him. Deal with what is thrown at you.

How about we just throw them all in a dungeon covered with straw and fed gruel once a day. **** em right?

 

[calamity]

Re: When "gender fluidity" means "take off your clothes in front of this opposite-sex person, or els

If the Muslim was a Christian whose rights were being violated, we would not even be having this discussion.

Which does bring up a point; it is rather amazing just how tolerant Christians have become over the last 500 years or so, whining about baked cakes notwithstanding.

 

[Kal'Stang]

Re: When "gender fluidity" means "take off your clothes in front of this opposite-sex person, or els

If the Muslim was a Christian whose rights were being violated, we would not even be having this discussion.

Which does bring up a point; it is rather amazing just how tolerant Christians have become over the last 500 years or so, whining about baked cakes notwithstanding.

Bold: And you know this for a fact how? Can you show me where this has happened before with a Christian?

Of course you're also going to have to show where in the Christian Bible it forbids a man from undressing in front of a woman.

 

[PirateMk1]

Re: When "gender fluidity" means "take off your clothes in front of this opposite-sex person, or els

When do the gay people get labels? Or we can presume people are professionals until otherwise.

They label themselves and then insist society complies with using said labels.

 

[ecofarm]

Re: When "gender fluidity" means "take off your clothes in front of this opposite-sex person, or els

They label themselves and then insist society complies with using said labels.

They kick your ass, huh? They don't bother me at all.

 

[PirateMk1]

Re: When "gender fluidity" means "take off your clothes in front of this opposite-sex person, or els

They kick your ass, huh? They don't bother me at all.

WTF are you going on about?

 

[calamity]

Re: When "gender fluidity" means "take off your clothes in front of this opposite-sex person, or els

Bold: And you know this for a fact how? Can you show me where this has happened before with a Christian?

Of course you're also going to have to show where in the Christian Bible it forbids a man from undressing in front of a woman.

Wow, talk about completely missing my point. May I suggest reading the post again so that I do not have to explain it.

Hint: Your second line has absolutely nothing to do with what I wrote.

 

[ecofarm]

Re: When "gender fluidity" means "take off your clothes in front of this opposite-sex person, or els

WTF are you going on about?

You're claiming to be a victim. I guess it's really difficult for you, a struggle and all that. For me, it's not an issue, no problem.

Different strokes.

 

[DH Kirkwood]

Re: When "gender fluidity" means "take off your clothes in front of this opposite-sex person, or els

That doesn't mean we have to change everything to accommodate them.

What is being asked of the rest of us, exactly?

 

[CLAX1911]

Re: When "gender fluidity" means "take off your clothes in front of this opposite-sex person, or els

Get sent to prison or jail then you lose your rights to whine like a ****ing bigot.

**** him. Deal with what is thrown at you.

Will you go to jail if you're accused of something not necessarily if you're guilty. So people shouldn't lose their rights because they are accused of something. After their sentence I'm going to have a little less sympathy.

 

[CLAX1911]

Re: When "gender fluidity" means "take off your clothes in front of this opposite-sex person, or els

Bold: And you know this for a fact how? Can you show me where this has happened before with a Christian?

no he's just saying the stir the pot sure we would be having this conversation.

He's trying to say that people are tolerant of abuses toward Muslims because they are Muslim.

I wasn't picking that up at all.

 

[CLAX1911]

Re: When "gender fluidity" means "take off your clothes in front of this opposite-sex person, or els

What is being asked of the rest of us, exactly?

Well in most cases nothing, in this case a Muslim man is expected to see a female person as male.

 

[PirateMk1]

Re: When "gender fluidity" means "take off your clothes in front of this opposite-sex person, or els

You're claiming to be a victim. I guess it's really difficult for you, a struggle and all that. For me, it's not an issue, no problem.

Different strokes.

Where the hell did you manage to come up with that noise?

 

[ecofarm]

Re: When "gender fluidity" means "take off your clothes in front of this opposite-sex person, or els

Where the hell did you manage to come up with that noise?

Read your post that I quoted to begin our exchange. You wrote it, so I don't get how you forget playing the poor little victim.

 

[DH Kirkwood]

Re: When "gender fluidity" means "take off your clothes in front of this opposite-sex person, or els

Well in most cases nothing, in this case a Muslim man is expected to see a female person as male.

I used to operate under the assumption that transgender people should be biologically considered to be the sex and gender that their chromozones dictate, though, even then, I would have respected their wishes and pro-nouned them any way they like just out of courteousy. A new understanding of the brain has caused me to revaluate my stance. Apparently, at least one study concludes that there are similiraties between the trans brain, and the brain of the opposite sex (generally speaking, of course.) I feel that I can't be as certain about the biological nature of gender as I once was.

 

[PirateMk1]

Re: When "gender fluidity" means "take off your clothes in front of this opposite-sex person, or els

Read your post that I quoted to begin our exchange. You wrote it, so I don't get how you forget playing the poor little victim.

When do the gay people get labels? Or we can presume people are professionals until otherwise. -ecofarm

They label themselves and then insist society complies with using said labels. -PirateMk1

Uhh... I don't see where you get me claiming I am a victim. I don't use the word victim in that entire exchange. You asked when do gay people get labels. I answered they label themselves, and then insist society complies with said labels. Which by the way the gays and others made themselves, and then insist we use the labels and then not label them. Its all quite confusing, really. Are you saying that society is claiming victim status? You are doing a lot of imputing on a minimal amount of information.

 

[CLAX1911]

Re: When "gender fluidity" means "take off your clothes in front of this opposite-sex person, or els

I used to operate under the assumption that transgender people should be biologically considered to be the sex and gender that their chromozones dictate, though, even then, I would have respected their wishes and pro-nouned them any way they like just out of courteousy.
A new understanding of the brain has caused me to revaluate my stance. Apparently, at least one study concludes that there are similiraties between the trans brain, and the brain of the opposite sex (generally speaking, of course.) I feel that I can't be as certain about the biological nature of gender as I once was.

The brain isn't the only part of the anatomy there is and it's not the dictating Factor of what sex is. I can accept that there is people that have a female brain in a male body but the body is still male. The brain clearly doesn't dictate sex.

 

[DH Kirkwood]

Re: When "gender fluidity" means "take off your clothes in front of this opposite-sex person, or els

The brain isn't the only part of the anatomy there is and it's not the dictating Factor of what sex is. I can accept that there is people that have a female brain in a male body but the body is still male. The brain clearly doesn't dictate sex.

You're absolutely right, the brain isn't the only biological factor, it's enough however, to cause me to rethink a possible difference between sex and gender. I simply can't be confident that I'm really calling an orange, an orange, in this case.

 

[CLAX1911]

Re: When "gender fluidity" means "take off your clothes in front of this opposite-sex person, or els

You're absolutely right, the brain isn't the only biological factor, it's enough however, to cause me to rethink a possible difference between sex and gender.

Really?

Allow me to present the thought experiment.

So is a man who engages in oral sex which includes taking a penis into his mouth engaging and something known is homosexual Behavior?

I simply can't be confident that I'm really calling an orange, an orange, in this case.

Why an orange is an orange it can't be anything else.

 

[DH Kirkwood]

Re: When "gender fluidity" means "take off your clothes in front of this opposite-sex person, or els

Really?

Allow me to present the thought experiment.

So is a man who engages in oral sex which includes taking a penis into his mouth engaging and something known is homosexual Behavior?



Why an orange is an orange it can't be anything else.

I see homosexuality and transgenderism as being related, but ultimately different issues, so I don't know how your question in any way correlates to the question at hand.

To answer the actual question though, I would see a male performing felattio as a homosexual act even if none of the parties actually had any attraction to men. We are talking about 'homosexual behavior', and that would, linquisticly speaking, include any same-sex sexual performance regardless of the actual orientation of the persons involved.

 

[CLAX1911]

Re: When "gender fluidity" means "take off your clothes in front of this opposite-sex person, or els

I see homosexuality and transgenderism as being related, but ultimately different issues, so I don't know how your question in any way correlates to the question at hand.

To answer the actual question though, I would see a male performing felattio as a homosexual act even if none of the parties actually had any attraction to men.

then I don't know how you get around not considering a person with a penis male.

If it's homosexual then it is same-sex necessarily regardless of brain structure.

We are talking about 'homosexual behavior', and that would, linquisticly speaking, include any same-sex sexual performance regardless of the actual orientation of the persons involved.

there are two meanings to the word homosexual one sexual orientation and the other is a sexual behavior. That's why I qualified it with the adjective Behavior, there's no need to clear it up.

 

[DH Kirkwood]

Re: When "gender fluidity" means "take off your clothes in front of this opposite-sex person, or els

then I don't know how you get around not considering a person with a penis male.

If it's homosexual then it is same-sex necessarily regardless of brain structure.

there are two meanings to the word homosexual one sexual orientation and the other is a sexual behavior. That's why I qualified it with the adjective Behavior, there's no need to clear it up.

Im typying via a PS4 (a game console, which has a very rudimentory browser) but for the first statement, I would have previously regarded anyone as male or female depending on whether or not they had a male chromozone, whether or not a person's penis had been surgically removed. I would have regarded a MTF person a male who's had his dick lopped off, but would have simply address them as female out of politeness.

The whole 'brain thing' puts me in a state of uncertainty. Trans people tend to define sex and gender differently based on some archaic definitions of 'gender', but my own thoughts on both were rigidly grounded in DNA, and nothing else. I don't have a definite answer to any of this. The only side that I'm on, is that transition is the only remedy known for gender dysphoria. and even then , there are many factors to consider.

 

[CLAX1911]

Re: When "gender fluidity" means "take off your clothes in front of this opposite-sex person, or els

Im typying via a PS4 (a game console, which has a very rudimentory browser) but for the first statement, I would have previously regarded anyone as male or female depending on whether or not they had a male chromozone, whether or not a person's penis had been surgically removed. I would have regarded a MTF person a male who's had his dick lopped off, but would have simply address them as female out of politeness.

The whole 'brain thing' puts me in a state of uncertainty. Trans people tend to define sex and gender differently based on some archaic definitions of 'gender', but my own thoughts on both were rigidly grounded in DNA, and nothing else. I don't have a definite answer to any of this. The only side that I'm on, is that transition is the only remedy known for gender dysphoria. and even then , there are many factors to consider.

I would go by Anatomy over DNA. There have been people that were born female existence female they're anatomically female but they have male chromosomes they're still female.

That being said the brain is part of the anatomy. I think to say all other Anatomy does not matter except for the brain is as wrong as saying all Anatomy absent the brain make a person male or female.

So a person can legitimately be a male with a female brain.

 

[dirtpoorchris]

Re: When "gender fluidity" means "take off your clothes in front of this opposite-sex person, or els

Im typying via a PS4 (a game console, which has a very rudimentory browser) but for the first statement, I would have previously regarded anyone as male or female depending on whether or not they had a male chromozone, whether or not a person's penis had been surgically removed. I would have regarded a MTF person a male who's had his dick lopped off, but would have simply address them as female out of politeness.

The whole 'brain thing' puts me in a state of uncertainty. Trans people tend to define sex and gender differently based on some archaic definitions of 'gender', but my own thoughts on both were rigidly grounded in DNA, and nothing else. I don't have a definite answer to any of this. The only side that I'm on, is that transition is the only remedy known for gender dysphoria. and even then , there are many factors to consider.

Are you sure it doesn't have to do with how the brain categorizes itself for submissive or dominant behavior? Maybe a really effeminate guys brain just categorizes itself sorta the way a really effeminate female's does.