What's Wrong With That, Joe?

[tosca1]

No but your implied equivalence is wrong.



Ok, here is a pretty good clarification if it helps you

It's demonized! That's the media, for you.
Yes, there were unsavory elements (like the guy who drove that car) - but, Joe Biden has nothing to stand on in condemning everyone who were there as "not fine people."
Biden is trying to exploit the tragic event to benefit his candidacy - he's using this incident to stoke up an ugly episode in that event. Why bring that up now? SHAME ON BIDEN!


Trump was just saying what is sensible and objective:

President Trump addressed the violence in televised remarks from New Jersey, condemning an “egregious display of hatred, bigotry and violence on many sides” and calling for the “swift restoration of law and order.”

Charlottesville: 'Unite the Right' Rally, State of Emergency



There will always be some anarchists or looters who will exploit rallies and protests.


The Unite The Right rally was a protest over a removal of an iconic statue. You may not agree with the message, but that's just the way it is in the USA.
As far as I know....the USA isn't a socialist nation.....yet.

Freedom of speech, is still a right in the USA!

 

[noonereal]

those that join a Nazi rally are not fine people.

Of course not, they are Trumpets.

 

[Slavister]

The Unite The Right rally was a protest over a removal of an iconic statue. You may not agree with the message, but that's just the way it is in the USA.

Yes, I do not agree with Nazi message... sorry, I mean white supremacist / neo-Nazi message, and I still don't think there are any fine people joining that message. And if someone walked in to that rally without knowing what it was about, I am sure the chants would make it very clear.

"The organizers' stated goals included unifying the American white nationalist movement[11] and to oppose removing a statue of Robert E. Lee from Charlottesville's Lee Park.[21][25]"

But I got it, to you it's all about a statue removal... nothing to see here folks...

 

[tosca1]

But I got it, to you it's all about a statue removal... nothing to see here folks...

Because, that's what it was supposed to be for:

Violence erupted in the college town of Charlottesville on Aug. 12 after hundreds of white nationalists and their supporters who gathered for a rally over plans to remove a Confederate statue were met by counter-protesters, leading Virginia’s governor to declare a state of emergency.

Charlottesville: 'Unite the Right' Rally, State of Emergency


Had there been no counter-protest, there wouldn't be any violence.....you agree?

Why should there be a counter-protest for every protest at the same time, and at the same place?

Why don't they just let them do their thing and get it off their chest?
That's what rallies are for - so people can voice out their grievances!
It's like letting off steam!


Anyway, wouldn't there be people who feel strongly against the removal of that iconic statue? :lol:
Do they have to be neo-nazis to want to preserve a part of their history?

 

[VanceMack]

It's amazing the fear Fascists have of ANTIFA.:lamo

Its amazingly stupid how often people mistake scorn and ridicule for fear.

 

[VanceMack]

No but your implied equivalence is wrong.



Ok, here is a pretty good clarification if it helps you

So you claim that not EVERY liberal in attendance was a piece of **** leftist. Some were actually very good people.

Yeah...I can buy that.

And that IS the point. Its tragic so many people are too ****ing stupid to understand that is what Trump meant. Wouldnt you agree?

 

[ataraxia]

If you are going to quote what Trump said, at least have the honesty to quote the entire context of what he said....... instead of your usual garbage.

OK... I am not sure how this changes anything. But here is the full context of what Trump said. His argument seems to be that Robert E. Lee is the same as George Washington, and so that's why there must be good people among people carrying torches at night chanting "Jews will not replace us" and plowing a car into a crowd. How does that change anything?

REPORTER: The neo-Nazis started this thing. They showed up in Charlottesville.

TRUMP: Excuse me, they didn't put themselves down as neo-Nazis, and you had some very bad people in that group. But you also had people that were very fine people on both sides. You had people in that group – excuse me, excuse me. I saw the same pictures as you did. You had people in that group that were there to protest the taking down, of to them, a very, very important statue and the renaming of a park from Robert E. Lee to another name.

REPORTER: George Washington and Robert E. Lee are not the same.

TRUMP: Oh no, George Washington was a slave owner. Was George Washington a slave owner? So will George Washington now lose his status? Are we going to take down – excuse me. Are we going to take down, are we going to take down statues to George Washington? How about Thomas Jefferson? What do you think of Thomas Jefferson? You like him? Okay, good. Are we going to take down his statue? He was a major slave owner. Are we going to take down his statue? You know what? It’s fine, you’re changing history, you’re changing culture, and you had people – and I'm not talking about the neo-Nazis and the white nationalists, because they should be condemned totally – but you had many people in that group other than neo-Nazis and white nationalists, okay? And the press has treated them absolutely unfairly. Now, in the other group also, you had some fine people, but you also had troublemakers and you see them come with the black outfits and with the helmets and with the baseball bats – you had a lot of bad people in the other group too.

 

[JMR]

Yes. Trump is right. There are fine people on both sides!


What are you saying, Joe?
You're kinda like saying, just because of some Islamist terrorists......there are no fine Muslims?

Is that your mentality? Is that where you're going now?

please name the "good" person who marches with a torch chanting "Jews will not replace us"....than we can proceed with your illogical analogy. Because obviously there are no fine Muslims AMONG Islamist terrorists. Just as there are no fine people marching in a hate march.

 

[ashurbanipal]

Yes. Trump is right. There are fine people on both sides!


What are you saying, Joe?
You're kinda like saying, just because of some Islamist terrorists......there are no fine Muslims?

Is that your mentality? Is that where you're going now?

I think the "sides" in question were regular folks who were protesting white supremacism on the one hand, and white supremacists on the other. Being a white supremacist necessarily disqualifies someone from being a fine person--just as does being an Islamic terrorist. That is, there are not and cannot be white supremacists or Islamic terrorists who are also fine people.

 

[Slavister]

Because, that's what it was supposed to be for:

Violence erupted in the college town of Charlottesville on Aug. 12 after hundreds of white nationalists and their supporters who gathered for a rally over plans to remove a Confederate statue were met by counter-protesters, leading Virginia’s governor to declare a state of emergency.

Really? Let me fix this for you:

Violence erupted in the college town of Charlottesville on Aug. 12 after hundreds of white nationalists and their supporters who gathered for a rally over plans to remove a Confederate statue were met by counter-protesters, leading Virginia’s governor to declare a state of emergency.

Charlottesville: 'Unite the Right' Rally, State of Emergency


Had there been no counter-protest, there wouldn't be any violence.....you agree?

Are you freaking serious? You are blaming anti-white-nationalist people for coming out in protest rally? :lamo

How about this answer for you then: had there be no white nationalist rally, there would not be any violence... you agree?

Why should there be a counter-protest for every protest at the same time, and at the same place?

I know... those poor white nationalists... why can't they gather and chant their Nazi chants without protest rallies... Well, here you your answer: we live in a free country that allows protests and Nazi's are not the only ones allowed to protest. Sorry... deal with it...

Do they have to be neo-nazis to want to preserve a part of their history?

They don't have to be but in this case they WERE.

 

[Slavister]

So you claim that not EVERY liberal in attendance was a piece of **** leftist. Some were actually very good people.

Yeah...I can buy that.

And that IS the point. Its tragic so many people are too ****ing stupid to understand that is what Trump meant. Wouldnt you agree?

And your point is wrong. I would agree that not EVERY republican is a piece of **** rightwinger. Some are very good people. However, EACH AND EVERY person supporting the crowd chanting white nationalist **** is NOT a fine person. And that IS the point. And we all know what Trump means - some of his supporters are white nationalists (and probably all white nationalists support him), and so he has to support them back because all that matters to him is people that adore him.

 

[VanceMack]

And your point is wrong. I would agree that not EVERY republican is a piece of **** rightwinger. Some are very good people. However, EACH AND EVERY person supporting the crowd chanting white nationalist **** is NOT a fine person. And that IS the point. And we all know what Trump means - some of his supporters are white nationalists (and probably all white nationalists support him), and so he has to support them back because all that matters to him is people that adore him.

Tragic. You are so warped in your hatred that you lack the capacity to experience reason and rational thought.

Not everyone in Charlotte was on the side of Nazis or ANTIFA. A large number...I'd hazard a guess and say a majority of the people present...were people with an opinion on the civil war statues. And only a mentally deficient twat would think that if you dont support tearing down civil war statues you support nazis.

 

[tosca1]

Really? Let me fix this for you:

Violence erupted in the college town of Charlottesville on Aug. 12 after hundreds of white nationalists and their supporters who gathered for a rally over plans to remove a Confederate statue were met by counter-protesters, leading Virginia’s governor to declare a state of emergency.

That doesn't negate my point.
Joe can't label everyone in that rally, as not being a fine person. :shrug:

Like I've said, you don't have to be a neo-nazi to want to preserve a part of history (statue).

That's my point!

The rally was to voice their opposition to removing the statue - that kind of sentiment over a historical icon,
is not limited to neo-nazis.


Biden is simply exploiting that event for his own benefit, that's why
he's bringing it up again.

Shame on Biden.

 

[Slavister]

A large number...I'd hazard a guess and say a majority of the people present...were people with an opinion on the civil war statues.

You can hazard all you want. The rally was organized by white supremacists to unite white supremacists. Those that did not get the message and still attended got it loud and clear when they get the chants and when they saw the Nazi flags. So, if your wonderful right winger friends got there by mistake, they would have not stayed if they did not want to align themselves with neo-Nazi groups.

But hey, keep pretending like this was an RNC convention...

That doesn't negate my point. <snip>

see above ... same answer to you ... you can font as large as you like and as red as you like. You are still wrong.

 

[VanceMack]

You can hazard all you want. The rally was organized by white supremacists to unite white supremacists. Those that did not get the message and still attended got it loud and clear when they get the chants and when they saw the Nazi flags. So, if your wonderful right winger friends got there by mistake, they would have not stayed if they did not want to align themselves with neo-Nazi groups.

But hey, keep pretending like this was an RNC convention...



see above ... same answer to you ... you can font as large as you like and as red as you like. You are still wrong.

You CANNOT be so ignorant or stupid to assume that every person, including every person present that was opposed to removing confederate statues supports white nationalists or was there to support white nationalists. Therefore, your continued position of ignorance HAS to be deliberate. And thats just...sad.

 

[tosca1]

And your point is wrong. I would agree that not EVERY republican is a piece of **** rightwinger. Some are very good people. However, EACH AND EVERY person supporting the crowd chanting white nationalist **** is NOT a fine person.

That's the key phrase, isn't it? Those that are supporting the neo-nazi chant by the white nationalists!

But, that's not to say that there are no fine people on both sides. BIG DIFFERENCE!

That's the issue here. Biden is saying Trump's statement is wrong.
Not all people support the neo-nazi ideology, after all the rally was organized to try to stop the removal of a historical icon.

Like I've said, you don't have to be a neo-nazi to want to preserve your history.
Heck, a lot of PATRIOTS will fight for the history of the USA to be preserved, after all that's part of history that had helped define the country, whether it's ugly or not (black slavery) - that's history! That's the point!

To exercise your right to protest, is American!



Trump tried to diffuse the situation by pointing at the positive - there are fine people on both sides!
He's being diplomatic at that moment.
Biden, on the other hand, should not demonize all people that attended that rally!


What's next for Biden to exploit, and demonize? Everyone who wants a secure border?
All you need is to photo-op a group of flag-waving neo-nazis chanting neo-nazi mantra at the border - and Biden will quickly grab that moment to label everyone who wants a secure border to be
NEO-NAZIS!

Lol. How many times did Biden go for the presidency? This is his third time, no?
At his age - this is his last shot at it!
He knows Democrats want someone younger! That's why he's resurrecting this ugly, very divisive episode!
He is nothing but a......career politician, who'll say and use anything to win.


His sense of judgment is also.......unreliable. To say the least.
I think, he's a babbler.
Didn't he toast Justin Trudeau (3 years ago), as the man who should lead the world? :lol:

 

[Slavister]

Trump tried to diffuse the situation by pointing at the positive - there are fine people on both sides! He's being diplomatic at that moment.

Diplomatic? Trump? :lamo Good spin, good spin.

You also keep pretending the rally was just about the statue. I already rejected that premise, so repeating it makes no sense as you are just going in circles.

You CANNOT be so ignorant or stupid to assume that every person, including every person present that was opposed to removing confederate statues supports white nationalists or was there to support white nationalists. Therefore, your continued position of ignorance HAS to be deliberate. And thats just...sad.

There is a big difference between vast majority white nationalist rally with other folks coming in because they did not realize what this REALLY was and then leaving because they would not want to be part of THAT group, vs say a Trump rally where most people might be just Trumpsters and a few are Nazis.

Saying there were fine people on both sides makes it sound like they are about the same. He did not say one side was mostly despicable with just a few fine people and other side was mostly on the right side.

It's like saying there are some fine people among BOTH convicted murderers and their victims. After all, SOME convicted murderers are wrongly convicted and really are fine people, so statement might be technically true, but has a meaning that no normal person would agree with in the context of a political announcement or commentary or anything that you would want to base any kind of policy on.

I understand that my attempts to argue with you two are futile. Anything that Trump says must be defended, not matter how DEPLORABLE. I get it. I'll stop now.

 

[ultmd]

Yours is an opinion! You and Joe can't make any conclusion in that protest, and label everyone as not being fine people.

:roll: I see you are still confused. Of course it's my opinion. The difference between me (and Joe...and most decent Americans)....and you (and Trump and other apologists for white nationalism/supremacy/neo-nazism...is that my opinion is FACT-BASED, while yours is EMOTION-BASED. You cannot show me ONE example of a person marching with those Unite the Right bigots who was not a willing, agreeing participant. To date, not ONE person who marched with those ignorant racists and bigots has come forward to denounce the racist chants...nor the Nazi flags...nor the Confederate flags...etc. NOT ONE. So stop pretending there is ANY basis for the claim that there were "fine people" marching among those ignorant white nationalist racists and bigots. That's the kind of fantasy that racists, closeted bigots and apologists for white supremacy ALWAYS cling to whenever their side is implicated in another racist act.

Joe's most likely the one who ain't the finest of the lot - IF we judge by whom he associates with, and what he is: [/B] a career politician!

This is FoxNews nonsense. No rational person questions Biden's character or "associations". Only the irrational wingnuts. And my guess is that you've been watching Tucker Carlson and the rest of the FauxNews evening lineup at little too much. Either that, or you're just one of those people who has been radicalized by alt-right blogs/social media, etc. The fact that Biden is a "career politician" is made less relevant by the pathetic performance of the con-man in the oval office right now. No one will ever again be able to trumpet the value of a "CEO Presidency", thanks to the corruption and incompetence of the Drumpf presidency.

Just look how he exploits this event for his own candidacy!

:lamo
This is such a predictable (and laughably pathetic) right-wing refrain. Every time your political opponents mention any of the ever-increasing acts/incidents of right-wing mass violence or domestic terrorism in this country, you right wingers--lead, of course, by FauxNews and the Conservative (i.e. Fake) News media)--ALWAYS trot out that pathetic argument. You do it because, deep down, you KNOW that you people are guilty of most of the mass murders and domestic terrorism tragedies in this country, every year.

No, it's not exploiting it. It's recognizing the scope of the major issues that plague our society. Luckily, most Americans understand and agree with Biden's message in his announcement video. You and your ilk are out on an island, again

 

[ultmd]

Like I've said, you don't have to be a neo-nazi to want to preserve a part of history (statue).

Nonsense. Just....idiotic nonsense. Here's some much needed advice for all of you alt-righties out there who are still defending the racist thugs who participated in the Unite the Right march, as well as all of the Trump acolytes who continue to defend them based upon BASELESS hypothetical fantasy scenarios of "fine people" who were there simply to "preserve history":

1. If you find yourself marching in a violent rally that was LITERALLY created, promoted, organized and lead EXCLUSIVELY by white supremacist, white nationalist and Neo-Nazi leaders and organizations...........you are ABSOLUTELY very-likely to be a bigot or racist.

2. If you cannot identify even ONE verifiable example of a Unite the Right participant holding a sign, or chanting about "preserving history" in the midst of the HUNDREDS of Nazi signs, Confederate flags, "Heil Hitler" salutes, "Blood and Soil" signs and the constant chants of "Jews will not replace us!" and "White Lives Matter", etc. etc..........you, sir are a PLUMB FOOL.

3. People who believe that traitors to the nation (such as all Confederate leaders) deserve to be memorialized on PUBLIC property in perpetuity.....are either (1) bigots and racists themselves, or (2) at the very least, sympathetic to white supremacist ideology. And, as such, they really need to stop whining about the way they are viewed and labeled by others.

Biden is simply exploiting that event for his own benefit, that's why
he's bringing it up again.

Shame on Biden.

Again, this is the predictable narrative that is being promoted across the conservative media. It's standard fare projection from alt-right snowflakes. People like you, who have championed everything Trump has said and done for 2 years, without ever once uttering "Shame on Trump!"....have no standing to pass judgment on Biden or anyone else in our society. You all exhibit the worst kind of hypocrisy and ignorance.

 

[tosca1]

:roll: I see you are still confused. Of course it's my opinion. The difference between me (and Joe...and most decent Americans)....and you (and Trump and other apologists for white nationalism/supremacy/neo-nazism...is that my opinion is FACT-BASED, while yours is EMOTION-BASED. You cannot show me ONE example of a person marching with those Unite the Right bigots who was not a willing, agreeing participant. To date, not ONE person who marched with those ignorant racists and bigots has come forward to denounce the racist chants...nor the Nazi flags...nor the Confederate flags...etc. NOT ONE. So stop pretending there is ANY basis for the claim that there were "fine people" marching among those ignorant white nationalist racists and bigots. That's the kind of fantasy that racists, closeted bigots and apologists for white supremacy ALWAYS cling to whenever their side is implicated in another racist act.


This is FoxNews nonsense. No rational person questions Biden's character or "associations". Only the irrational wingnuts. And my guess is that you've been watching Tucker Carlson and the rest of the FauxNews evening lineup at little too much. Either that, or you're just one of those people who has been radicalized by alt-right blogs/social media, etc. The fact that Biden is a "career politician" is made less relevant by the pathetic performance of the con-man in the oval office right now. No one will ever again be able to trumpet the value of a "CEO Presidency", thanks to the corruption and incompetence of the Drumpf presidency.


:lamo
This is such a predictable (and laughably pathetic) right-wing refrain. Every time your political opponents mention any of the ever-increasing acts/incidents of right-wing mass violence or domestic terrorism in this country, you right wingers--lead, of course, by FauxNews and the Conservative (i.e. Fake) News media)--ALWAYS trot out that pathetic argument. You do it because, deep down, you KNOW that you people are guilty of most of the mass murders and domestic terrorism tragedies in this country, every year.

No, it's not exploiting it. It's recognizing the scope of the major issues that plague our society. Luckily, most Americans understand and agree with Biden's message in his announcement video. You and your ilk are out on an island, again

Lol. You're the one who's reacting with your emotions.

"Fact," my foot. Here is a fact for you: how many very fine people do you think will come out
when Democrats are demonizing them? Are you kidding?

Who will want to expose themselves to lunacy from the left, like Maxine Waters?




Let's not forget the lunatic frenzy too, when Kavanaugh was appointed.

Can you blame them for being quiet?


And yes, it is exploitation! No matter how you try to color it, Joe's exploiting that event!
Lol, he can't even make an attack ad that's truthful - he'd taken Trump's comment out of context!

Face it! Biden is just another career politician who's making a desperate last stab at the presidency!

Again, this is the predictable narrative that is being promoted across the conservative media. It's standard fare projection from alt-right snowflakes. People like you, who have championed everything Trump has said and done for 2 years, without ever once uttering "Shame on Trump!"....have no standing to pass judgment on Biden or anyone else in our society. You all exhibit the worst kind of hypocrisy and ignorance.

Nope. Not simply narrative. We can see the truth for ourselves! The left has no moral ground to stand on, passing judgement on Trump and his supporters, when they themselves had supported corruptions of all kinds!

Lol. you even support actively cheating your own - like the way Democrats had cheated on Sanders!
Well? Where's the outrage?
And you think Dems - and their supporters - have the credibility? :lamo


Your posts shows your emotions run away with you....over-ruling logic. :mrgreen:

 

[Lovebug]

"BLM = terrorists" is pretty obvious racist rhetoric. It's a white nationalist mantra for obvious reasons.

Racist rhetoric is abound on both sides, and both side hear what they want to hear. Some statements are clumsy. Joe should know that more than anyone


Biden apologizes for Obama remarks - NBC Nightly News with Brian Williams | NBC News

Both sides are quick to judge and slow to listen.

 

[marke]

"I think it wiser not to keep open the sores of war but to follow the examples of those nations who endeavored to obliterate the marks of civil strife, to commit to oblivion the feelings engendered."

Robert E. Lee

“As regards the erection of such a monument as is contemplated," Lee wrote of an 1866 proposal, "my conviction is, that however grateful it would be to the feelings of the South, the attempt in the present condition of the Country, would have the effect of retarding, instead of accelerating its accomplishment; [and] of continuing, if not adding to, the difficulties under which the Southern people labour."

Robert E. Lee

Feelings ran high before, during and after the Civil War. A nation desperate to heal the wounds of all wisely allowed both sides to remember their dead for reasons which had nothing to do with racism. Images of former slave owners have only become an issue as a result of the more modern racist narratives promoted by leftist democrats for political purposes. It makes no sense whatsoever to tear down statues of men who participated in slavery in the past, like George Washington. What people should focus on is the need for tolerance of others in a country divided by cultural, ethnical, political and religious differences. Tearing down statues is not teaching people how to tolerate others and get along in a multicultural society.

 

[RaleBulgarian]

Feelings ran high before, during and after the Civil War. A nation desperate to heal the wounds of all wisely allowed both sides to remember their dead for reasons which had nothing to do with racism. Images of former slave owners have only become an issue as a result of the more modern racist narratives promoted by leftist democrats for political purposes. It makes no sense whatsoever to tear down statues of men who participated in slavery in the past, like George Washington. What people should focus on is the need for tolerance of others in a country divided by cultural, ethnical, political and religious differences. Tearing down statues is not teaching people how to tolerate others and get along in a multicultural society.

A minority opinion.

 

[ecofarm]

Racist rhetoric is abound on both sides, and both side hear what they want to hear. Some statements are clumsy. Joe should know that more than anyone


Biden apologizes for Obama remarks - NBC Nightly News with Brian Williams | NBC News

Both sides are quick to judge and slow to listen.

I don't give a **** what either side is doing. A civil rights movement characterized as a racist movement is flat out nazi BS. And everyone should see that. Or they're a racist too.