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What's Wrong With That, Joe?

Yes, Hillary was benevolent enough to admit that some of the deplorable were "redeemable".

I suspect that Joe will not be so understanding if his rollout video is any indiction. He seems to have convinced himself that no "good people" could possibly be among of those objecting to the removal of the statues in Charlottesville. With Joe it seems that you are either on his side or you are a Nazi sympathizer - with a possible narrow exception for Thomas Jefferson.
 
Respect your opinion, but you're wrong about one key point. Trump stated, and then repeated, that there were "very fine people" at a rally the was organized, promoted and attended by white nationalists/supremacists from across the country. The organizer (Jason Kessler) is a Neo-Nazi and prominent member of the alt-right online community. ALL of the groups involved in promoting the rally were white nationalist/white supremacist/Neo-Nazi groups. There was NOT ONE group involved in the rally that was NOT a far-right wing, openly racist organization. They marches with signs that read "Jews will not replace us", "White Lives Matter", "Blood and Soil", "Long Live the White Knights". The flags they flew were those of the Nazis and the KKK and the Confederacy... not the American Flag.

So, I'm sorry, but when Trump stated there were "fine people on both sides", he was absolutely saying there were fine people in a rally created ENTIRELY by (and for) white supremacists. No amount of semantics can obscure that reality. And his response wasn't simply "clumsy". It was a blatantly false equivalence between racists...and those who oppose racism. And there is absolutely no equivalence between the two.



Sorry, you just cannot say that with any credibility. That's absolutely what Trump did. You cannot change his words. Neither can you pretend to know what he "really" meant. There was only one kind of person out there marching and chanting racist slogans, and holding up racist signs and symbols. And unless you can find some examples of non-racist organizations directly involved with the Tiki Torch carriers at that event....you need to stop pretending you understand the "context" when what you're really doing is projecting your feelings into Trump's head. The so-called "MSM" got it right. And, once again, you've placed yourself in the position of being an apologist for Trump's racism and bigotry.


:lamo
That's silly...because it wasn't a lie. Unless, of course, we're talking about the alternative universe of right wing "news", where lies are facts and facts are lies. Is that what you meant? Because in the real world, most people have seen and read about the Unite the Right rally and tragedy. And the only people who still think like you are the blind Trump apologists and the racists/bigots among us.


:lamo
Only certified wingnuts equate anti-semitism with opposition to ANY foreign policy issue related to Israel. The reason 70% of American Jewish voters oppose Trump is because they understand this, too.

You can bang on that fake news drum until the cows come home, but it's not correct. I won't argue further with you, since you've bought into the lies, but just know that intellectually honest people who don't like Trump have cogent, fact-based reasons.
Not some edited, manipulate, curated and spoon-fed bs about something Trump never said.

“Excuse me, they didn’t put themselves down as neo-Nazis, and you had some very bad people in that group. But you also had people that were very fine people on both sides. You had people in that group – excuse me, excuse me, I saw the same pictures you did. You had people in that group that were there to protest the taking down of, to them, a very, very important statue and the renaming of a park from Robert E. Lee to another name.”

After another question at that press conference, Trump became even more explicit:

“I’m not talking about the neo-Nazis and white nationalists because they should be condemned totally.”

You might want to read fully here so you stop using fallacy and start sticking to facts. Your choice. I have no dog in the hunt if you want to come off appearing as bad as the leftist media who ginned up this pathetic lie.

Trump Didn't Call Neo-Nazis 'Fine People.' Here's Proof. | RealClearPolitics
 
Yes. Trump is right. There are fine people on both sides!


What are you saying, Joe?
You're kinda like saying, just because of some Islamist terrorists......there are no fine Muslims?

Is that your mentality? Is that where you're going now?

Please spare us the faux outrage. Biden hasn't pointed to an ISIS rally and said there are fine people there.
 
I suspect that Joe will not be so understanding if his rollout video is any indiction. He seems to have convinced himself that no "good people" could possibly be among of those objecting to the removal of the statues in Charlottesville. With Joe it seems that you are either on his side or you are a Nazi sympathizer - with a possible narrow exception for Thomas Jefferson.

Yes, and I rub my hands with anticipation of the "Shethepeople" crowd calling him a slave owner and rapist just like Tom.

I listened to Biden's announcement and thought if he referenced late-term abortion, infanticide, open borders, growing leftist anti-cop/ICE/CBP/LEOs, antisemitism and anti-Israel posture as fundamentally wrong with how America is supposed to be, I could have wholeheartedly agreed. But my God, he wrapped his sentiments around a media lie and deliberate misrepresentation of what Trump said.
What a sad and pathetic way to ask any American to be their President.
 
You can bang on that fake news drum until the cows come home, but it's not correct. I won't argue further with you, since you've bought into the lies, but just know that intellectually honest people who don't like Trump have cogent, fact-based reasons.
Not some edited, manipulate, curated and spoon-fed bs about something Trump never said.

:lamo
You won't argue further with me because you can't. If you could document a single "lie" in my previous remarks, you'd do it. But you won't, because you can't. And you know it. But, hey, feel free to point out a single "edited, manipulated or curated" argument in my remarks, if you can. You know, ACTUAL intellectually honest people are afraid to defend their views with SUBSTANTIVE arguments. Clearly, the only thing you know about "intellectually honest people"...is how to spell the words.

“Excuse me, they didn’t put themselves down as neo-Nazis, and you had some very bad people in that group. But you also had people that were very fine people on both sides. You had people in that group – excuse me, excuse me, I saw the same pictures you did. You had people in that group that were there to protest the taking down of, to them, a very, very important statue and the renaming of a park from Robert E. Lee to another name.”
Again, NOT ONCE did ANY of those racist Unite the Right marchers mention A SINGLE RECORDED WORD about the statues throughout that entire rally. Not once. And you know it. White Nationalism was the entire focus of those marchers. Sorry if that TRUTH hurts, but that's not my problem.

After another question at that press conference, Trump became even more explicit:

“I’m not talking about the neo-Nazis and white nationalists because they should be condemned totally.”

You might want to read fully here so you stop using fallacy and start sticking to facts. Your choice. I have no dog in the hunt if you want to come off as bad at the leftist media.
Trump Didn't Call Neo-Nazis 'Fine People.' Here's Proof. | RealClearPolitics

Oh, nice...an OP/ED from another former Trump campaign staffer. Thanks, but no thanks. Why do you people always post opinions pieces as the basis of your views? Like you, Cortes mistakenly (or gullibly?) accepts the COMPLETELY UNFOUNDED notion that there were non-racists among the Unite the Right marcher, because (like his supporters) he's an apologist for racism and bigotry. But the FACT (which you cannot refute) is that EVERY SINGLE group involved (from the organizers to the promoters) was a white nationalist/supremacist/Neo-Nazi group. If you'd like for me to post a list of the groups that participated in it, I can do that. But I suspect you're not really interested in that, because your views are not fact-based. Your views are ideology-based.
 
Funny, but if you paid attention to the rally, you noticed that NOT ONCE did the statues come up in the rhetoric of the Unite the Right marchers. Not once. So let's try to be more careful about not allowing our wishes and feelings to dictate our perceptions of events and reality, please.

And again, EVERY SINGLE group that organized, promoted and participated in the Unite the Right march was directly affiliated with white nationalist/white supremacist/Neo-Nazi causes. Every single one. The organizer promoted the rally EXCLUSIVELY on those websites and social media links. So stop pretending it was what you WISH it was...and start dealing with REALITY. It doesn't persuade anyone. It only makes you people seem like one of them (or one of their sympathizers).

Enough with the Alternative Universe of the FauxNews crowd, please! Enough.

I have no doubt that you are completely correct as to the motives of (and racist/bigoted statements made by) the official organizers and "major groups" present. Of course, the same could be said for many BLM rallies where calls for "dead cops" were made, but to assert that no "good people" show up for these BLM sponsored protests against police misconduct/violence would be equally dishonest.
 
Yes, and I rub my hands with anticipation of the "Shethepeople" crowd calling him a slave owner and rapist just like Tom.

I listened to Biden's announcement and thought if he referenced late-term abortion, infanticide, open borders, growing leftist anti-cop/ICE/CBP/LEOs, antisemitism and anti-Israel posture as fundamentally wrong with how America is supposed to be, I could have wholeheartedly agreed. But my God, he wrapped his sentiments around a media lie and deliberate misrepresentation of what Trump said.
What a sad and pathetic way to ask any American to be their President.

It is very early in Joe's campaign and I hope that he shifts to stating policy/issue positions rather than simply staying on the "I'm not an evil racist/bigot like Trump is" nonsense.
 
He is saying that 'the president of the United States assigned a moral equivalence between those spreading hate and those with the courage to stand against it'.

And no, those that join a Nazi rally are not fine people.

What nazi rally? You may want to label it a nazi rally, but that doesn't mean it is.
 
Very weak analogy.

If those "muslims" were all marching in a parade saying "Death to America"....then NO, you cannot say there were "good people" on that side. That's a far cry from saying there are not good muslims anywhere in the world. Understand?

Lol. if all those who attended the rally were all saying, "Jews will not replace us," then NO, you cannot say there were "good people" on that side.

Rallies today usually, are attended by people with differing protests! Look at the pink ***** hat!
Apparently, they all have different issues! Even the yellow vests!

Biden is a drama king! Lol. He knows how to push your button.
He says that like as if he's a walking National Enquirer! :lamo And you guys so easily fall for it!


My comparison is bang-on! Understand? Or, no....I have a feeling most likely you don't.
Here - let me simplify it for you......
You cannot judge all the protesters and say they're all no good, just for being there - what?
How does he know? Did he talk to all of them?
:lol:



How can someone judge another and say he's not a "fine" person....just because of being seen in the company of another? Duh?

If that's how you guys want to think, you better do an energetic headshake:


Joe Biden Is Showing Up in a 'Mind-Boggling' Number of D.C.-Area Dating Profiles: 'It's a Conversation-Starter'

Joe Biden Keeps Showing Up in Online Dating Profiles | PEOPLE.com


Do you say, he is a fine person? :mrgreen:
 
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He is saying that 'the president of the United States assigned a moral equivalence between those spreading hate and those with the courage to stand against it'.

And no, those that join a Nazi rally are not fine people.
Would you say that every liberal in attendance in Charlotte on that day was a piece of **** scumbag member of ANTIFA?
 
Right on!

Just as there are some bad individuals in EVERY group, so are there some good individuals in every group.

Is the 'good' one in a lynch mob the one that carries the smallest torch?
 
I have no doubt that you are completely correct as to the motives of (and racist/bigoted statements made by) the official organizers and "major groups" present. Of course, the same could be said for many BLM rallies where calls for "dead cops" were made, but to assert that no "good people" show up for these BLM sponsored protests against police misconduct/violence would be equally dishonest.

This is another false equivalence. #BLM is in no way a domestic terrorist movement. And your "dead cops" example is just proof that you've allowed yourself to be miseducated. There was never a #BLM rally in which "dead cops" was chanted. That story was FAKE...promoted by a Trump supporter who posted a video on social media from news clip about an unrelated protest following another police shooting of an unarmed 13 year old boy back in 2014, and claimed it was from the #BLM rally in Dallas in 2016. FoxNews (of course) promoted it extensively. But it was a lie. It was debunked years ago. I'm puzzled that you would not know that, by now.
FACT CHECK: Black Lives Matter Protesters Chant for 'Dead Cops Now' in Baton Rouge

The reality is that #BLM movement has no real history of inciting violence, much less domestic terrorism. It's a non-violent anti-racism movement that is targeted by the FoxNews crowd as a "racist" movement. And yet, conservatives like you have been convinced that it's analogous to REAL domestic terrorist groups like those that sponsored the Unite the Right rally. There really is no comparison between groups that exist to promote racism, and those that exist to oppose it. They are opposites.

But getting back to the Unite the Right rally....why would you presume that a rally that was organized and promoted entirely by racist white nationalists....would be filled with "fine people" who do not share the same views? Your argument, that there must've been some "good people" mixed into the crowd somewhere....to me, seems to be grasping at straws. It was never even promoted to those "good people", so why create a mythology, like that?
 
This is another false equivalence. #BLM is in no way a domestic terrorist movement. And your "dead cops" example is just proof that you've allowed yourself to be miseducated. There was never a #BLM rally in which "dead cops" was chanted. That story was FAKE...promoted by a Trump supporter who posted a video on social media from news clip about an unrelated protest following another police shooting of an unarmed 13 year old boy back in 2014, and claimed it was from the #BLM rally in Dallas in 2016. FoxNews (of course) promoted it extensively. But it was a lie. It was debunked years ago. I'm puzzled that you would not know that, by now.
FACT CHECK: Black Lives Matter Protesters Chant for 'Dead Cops Now' in Baton Rouge

The reality is that #BLM movement has no real history of inciting violence, much less domestic terrorism. It's a non-violent anti-racism movement that is targeted by the FoxNews crowd as a "racist" movement. And yet, conservatives like you have been convinced that it's analogous to REAL domestic terrorist groups like those that sponsored the Unite the Right rally. There really is no comparison between groups that exist to promote racism, and those that exist to oppose it. They are opposites.


"BLM = terrorists" is pretty obvious racist rhetoric. It's a white nationalist mantra for obvious reasons.
 
So you would call this a... what?

View attachment 67255748


Do they represent everyone? Or, are they another group that just happens to be nazi?
Is that whole rally a conglomeration of different groups, or is it a one big group of nazi? Do you know?

If someone in a Christmas parade waves a Japenese flag - would you say it's a Japanese parade?
 
Lol. if all those who attended the rally were all saying, "Jews will not replace us," then NO, you cannot say there were "good people" on that side.
I see your emphasis on the word "all". No need to stop there. If there were "good people" marching SILENTLY alongside people shouting "Jews will not replace us!", while carrying Nazi flags, etc. etc....and those "good people" continued to follow along with the march.....those "good people" were probably not so "good" after all.

Rallies today usually, are attended by people with differing protests! Look at the pink ***** hat!
Apparently, they all have different issues! Even the yellow vests!
You're substituting your personal opinions for the facts again. I get that you'd like to assume that many/some of the people were just "good people" who were got caught up with a crowd of angry racist incels. But that's wishful thinking. What we KNOW is that the entire rally was organized, targeted and promoted by and for white nationalists/supremacists/Neo-Nazis. That's reality. The other stuff just comes across as wishful thinking by apologists, imo.

Biden is a drama king! Lol. He knows how to push your button.
He says that like as if he's a walking National Enquirer! :lamo And you guys so easily fall for it!

My comparison is bang-on! Understand? Or, no....I have a feeling most likely you don't.
Here - let me simplify it for you......
You cannot judge all the protesters and say they're all no good, just for being there - what?
How does he know? Did he talk to all of them?
:lol:



How can someone judge another and say he's not a "fine" person....just because of being seen in the company of another? Duh?

If that's how you guys want to think, you better do an energetic headshake:


Joe Biden Is Showing Up in a 'Mind-Boggling' Number of D.C.-Area Dating Profiles: 'It's a Conversation-Starter'

Joe Biden Keeps Showing Up in Online Dating Profiles | PEOPLE.com


Do you say, he is a fine person? :mrgreen:

This is silly. What does any of this have to do with our conversation, or anything that I've said?
 
"BLM = terrorists" is pretty obvious racist rhetoric. It's a white nationalist mantra for obvious reasons.

This is very true.

But a lot of people are just regurgitating what they see, hear and read from FoxNews and the other rightwing fake-news outlets that they trust. They don't know any better. They see Tucker Carlson, etc. say it...and they believe it. Even though the truth is out there and relatively easy to find, they don't even think about checking their sources for accuracy.
 
This is very true.

But a lot of people are just regurgitating what they see, hear and read from FoxNews and the other rightwing fake-news outlets that they trust. They don't know any better. They see Tucker Carlson, etc. say it...and they believe it. Even though the truth is out there and relatively easy to find, they don't even think about checking their sources for accuracy.

I have a really hard time believing anyone innocently buys into the "BLM = terrorists" routine.
 
Would you say that every liberal in attendance in Charlotte on that day was a piece of **** scumbag member of ANTIFA?

It's amazing the fear Fascists have of ANTIFA.:lamo
 
Would you say that every liberal in attendance in Charlotte on that day was a piece of **** scumbag member of ANTIFA?

No but your implied equivalence is wrong.

What nazi rally? You may want to label it a nazi rally, but that doesn't mean it is.

Ok, here is a pretty good clarification if it helps you

The Unite the Right rally, also known as the Charlottesville rally or Charlottesville riots,[4] was a white supremacist[5][6][7][8] rally that occurred in Charlottesville, Virginia, from August 11 to 12, 2017.[9][10] Protesters were members of the far-right and included self-identified members of the alt-right,[11] neo-Confederates,[12] neo-fascists,[13] white nationalists,[14] neo-Nazis,[15] Klansmen,[16] and various militias.[17] The marchers chanted racist and antisemitic slogans, carried semi-automatic rifles, Nazi and neo-Nazi symbols (such as the swastika, Odal rune, Black Sun, and Iron Cross), the Valknut, Confederate battle flags, Deus Vult crosses, flags and other symbols of various past and present anti-Muslim and antisemitic groups.[18][8][9][19][20][21][22] Within the Charlottesville area, the rally is often known as A12[23] or 8/12.[24] The organizers' stated goals included unifying the American white nationalist movement[11] and to oppose removing a statue of Robert E. Lee from Charlottesville's Lee Park.
 
Do they represent everyone? Or, are they another group that just happens to be nazi?
Is that whole rally a conglomeration of different groups, or is it a one big group of nazi? Do you know?

If someone in a Christmas parade waves a Japenese flag - would you say it's a Japanese parade?

This is the Charlottesville protest which we are talking about. The one Trump said had "fine people" in it.

If you were a fine person, would you want to be caught around these guys?
 
This is the Charlottesville protest which we are talking about. The one Trump said had "fine people" in it.

If you were a fine person, would you want to be caught around these guys?

If you are going to quote what Trump said, at least have the honesty to quote the entire context of what he said....... instead of your usual garbage.
 
I see your emphasis on the word "all". No need to stop there. If there were "good people" marching SILENTLY alongside people shouting "Jews will not replace us!", while carrying Nazi flags, etc. etc....and those "good people" continued to follow along with the march.....those "good people" were probably not so "good" after all.


You're substituting your personal opinions for the facts again. I get that you'd like to assume that many/some of the people were just "good people" who were got caught up with a crowd of angry racist incels. But that's wishful thinking. What we KNOW is that the entire rally was organized, targeted and promoted by and for white nationalists/supremacists/Neo-Nazis. That's reality. The other stuff just comes across as wishful thinking by apologists, imo.



This is silly. What does any of this have to do with our conversation, or anything that I've said?

Yours is an opinion! You and Joe can't make any conclusion in that protest, and label everyone as not being fine people.

Joe's most likely the one who ain't the finest of the lot - IF we judge by whom he associates with,
and what he is:
a career politician!

Just look how he exploits this event for his own candidacy!
 
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If you are going to quote what Trump said, at least have the honesty to quote the entire context of what he said....... instead of your usual garbage.

If they're honest, they'd admit the Charlottesville narrative was as fake as Ferguson's "Hands up, don't shoot". Years later, people are still parroting these lies.
 
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