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What Will Be The Future of The Republican Party When These States Turn Blue?

veritas1 said:
I've talked about the need to address visa overstays numerous times in here. The reason we're always discussing the wall is because of the fetish the left has with trying to prevent it.
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Wrong. The reason we're always discussing "the wall" is because you Trump acolytes have a "fetish" about it, and it's NEVER going to be built.

And the reasons it will NEVER be built are:

1. It doesn't even address the problem
2. It would work, even if built.

Those are the FACTS that you Trump acolytes just can't seem to escape.

I find it rather telling that Obama, Schumer, Biden, Clinton and others were all for enhanced barriers (ie walls) at the border just a few years ago. Now, all of a sudden since Trump arrived, walls have become "immoral" as Pelosi said. I wonder if the ones around the compounds of these liberal hypocrites are also immoral.
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What a silly lie this is. This is a great example of the dishonesty (or ignorance) of most conservatives these days.

No Democrat (Obama, Schumer, Biden, Clinton or Pelosi) has EVER been against the existing walls that have already been built in strategic/high traffic locations. What EVERY Democrat has always been against is a 2000 mile, continuous wall across the southern border...because it's not needed, and because it would not address the problem (and thus would be a tremendous WASTE of public money).

Trump promised that Mexico would pay for his wall...to which, Democrats declared: Go for it! Of course, once it became clear to YOU PEOPLE that Trump was lying about that all along, your rhetoric quickly changed. And that's because it's never been about border security for you people. It's always been about preserving white hegemony in the U.S.
 
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Luther said:
Well, it is off to a good start

Hillary, yes HILLARY(2016) got about a 1/2 a million more votes than Obama got in 2012 in TEXAS

Cruz in 2012, wins his senate seat by 15 points against the Dem

Cruz in 2018 wins by 2.6 points against who? BETO

Did you know that Beto got about 200,000 more votes than Clinton did in 2016?


Oh my....
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This is the same trivia you spewed days ago. Still just as meaningless.
 

Your continued hiding behind the race card is noted.
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Your continued use of rightwing catch-phrases like "race card" is AGAIN noted. It outs your for who/what you are.

Naturally, you can't find ONE post of mine in here where I've ever disparaged any race or group.
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This would be called a non-sequitur. I have neither stated, nor implied, that you have publicly disparaged any race. I said that people who use terms like "race card" and "race-baitor", and other phrases coined by white aggrievement/white victimhood faction of the far-right, tend to be people who have "issues" with race (whether, or not, they publicly "disparage" other races).

Not sure why that was so hard for you to understand the first (or second, or third) time.

If people come here legally, I have no problem with them.
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I think you're not being completely honest.

Of course, you don't want to actually discuss the enormous economic impact of illegal immigration on this country, regardless of how those people get here.
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Nonsense. I'm sensing more PROJECTION from you, again. I'd LOVE to discuss the economic impact of illegal immigration on this country. Let's have that discussion. I look forward to your FACT-based arguments about the overall economic impact of undocumented immigrants on the U.S. My very strong guess, however, is that YOU have little-to-zero interest in having a FACT-BASED discussion of that topic with me. I guess we'll see, won't we? If your next post is more deflection (as a expect it will be)....I will also note that in my response.

You'd rather call the people pointing it out racists or other names.
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Have I ever called you a racist? If so, please provide a link or a quote. If not, please apologize. And if you can't apologize, please understand why I describe you (and people like you) with ACCURATE terms like "disingenuous", "cowardly", "ignorant", "dishonest", etc. etc. Those are "names". Those are ACCURATE descriptive terms for you and people like you who can't back up their own arguments on a DEBATE board, like this one. You really need to stop whining so much, veritas. That's not "name calling", it's TRUTH CALLING.

FWIW, my mother was a FIRST generation immigrant. I married a FIRST generation immigrant from Latin America. I know I've had FAR more close contact and interaction with Latino people than you have had or will have. So, your claims about me and who I supposedly hate are simply inaccurate ramblings conceived in your fetid imagination.
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My "fetid imagination"?:lamo

Take a deep breath, man. Congratulations on your mother's immigrant story, and for your marriage. But what you think you "know" means very little to me, since you are a total stranger to me. If I had a nickel for every conservative white guy who loved his latina/asian wife...but holds repulsive views and attitudes about Latinos and latin culture in general...I'd be a richer man.



2. No, my concern isn't political power. It's not being trampled underfoot by the people whose thinly veiled desire is to take my liberty and punish me for the sins they imagine I've committed or that my ancestors supposedly did.
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Ok, so your concern is white power. You've made that crystal clear. At least you're being honest, finally.

Got it.

My questions are...
  • (1) Whose liberties are being attacked? Are you talking about a group of people, or just yourself?
  • (2) Who exactly do you feel is trying to take your liberty away and punish you for the sins of your ancestors?
  • (3)Who, exactly are these people?
  • And (4) What is your solution for this problem that you perceive to exist?
 
veritas1 said:
There is nothing so dangerous as convinced moral zealots with political power. This is especially so when their moral ideas come solely from their own minds. The objective of the left is to create a whole new class of lifelong Democrats and they care little how those people arrive here. They only care that they stay in perpetuity and vote every four years. That's the extent of their "compassion".
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:lamo
Well, that's all just silly talk. But, speaking of "compassion", what's the extent of "compassion" from you and other conservatives?

Babies in cages?
Family separation?
Stealing babies from mothers at the border, and giving them away to American families...with NO records to ever allow them to EVER reconnect with each other?
Deporting 12 million tax paying undocumented immigrants?

Tell us...what is your definition of "compassion"?

That aside...You do understand that undocumented immigrants can't vote, don't you? When immigration reform is eventually passed, it WILL include legalized status and/or a path to citizenship for most of the 12 Million "illegals" here now, who are already paying taxes and contributing to the economy. If/when that happens, and the vast majority of those people REMEMBER who it was who helped them (and who it was that demonized and terrorized them and their loved ones) when they go to the voting booth...your side will have no one to blame but yourselves.

And again, since almost half of the "illegals" in the country are non-latinos who are here illegally by other means....and conservatives like you NEVER rant about that half of the "illegal immigrant" problem...why do you guys always whine when people point out how your vitriol seems to be aimed EXCLUSIVELY and SELECTIVELY at the "other" half of the problem?

The objective of the Right is clearly to (as you just said) protect the white majority in this country...at any cost. That's clear. And you've made your position on that very clear as well.

3. I flubbed no definitions. I presented none.
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Yes you have. In the past, you flubbed (HORRIBLY) multiple attempts to define Socialism, for example. You haven't flubbed at Fascism yet, because you keep running away from my request that you post your definition of the term here, for public discussion.

You were the one making claims about fascism and have manifestly failed to make any argument supporting said claims. Airily dismissing the issue as inarguable is really just an admission that you have nothing.
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Yes, Trump is exhibiting many aspects of classic fascist authoritarianism. That really is not arguable. Your problem is that you don't seem to understand what fascism is, or how it is reflected in public policy. That's why you were challenged to define it. But you're afraid to do that. Clearly, you've learned the wrong lesson from your flubs on Socialism, Nazism and Communism here on this board. Instead of learning to educate yourself, you learned to double-down on your ignorance and anti-intellectualism...which is pretty standard for the entire Trump crowd.
 
ultmd said:
Wrong. The reason we're always discussing "the wall" is because you Trump acolytes have a "fetish" about it, and it's NEVER going to be built.

And the reasons it will NEVER be built are:

1. It doesn't even address the problem
2. It would work, even if built.

Those are the FACTS that you Trump acolytes just can't seem to escape.



What a silly lie this is. This is a great example of the dishonesty (or ignorance) of most conservatives these days.

No Democrat (Obama, Schumer, Biden, Clinton or Pelosi) has EVER been against the existing walls that have already been built in strategic/high traffic locations. What EVERY Democrat has always been against is a 2000 mile, continuous wall across the southern border...because it's not needed, and because it would not address the problem (and thus would be a tremendous WASTE of public money).

Trump promised that Mexico would pay for his wall...to which, Democrats declared: Go for it! Of course, once it became clear to YOU PEOPLE that Trump was lying about that all along, your rhetoric quickly changed. And that's because it's never been about border security for you people. It's always been about preserving white hegemony in the U.S.
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The existing walls? Oh, you mean the chicken wire and 8' high corrugated metal that people can push over as they come in. Yea, those were very effective.:lol: I hate to break it to you but the wall is being built and will be built and there is nothing the pro-illegal immigrant, America Lasters can do to stop it.

I see you can't get off the race drug, either. Sad.
 
ultmd said:
Your continued use of rightwing catch-phrases like "race card" is AGAIN noted. It outs your for who/what you are.


This would be called a non-sequitur. I have neither stated, nor implied, that you have publicly disparaged any race. I said that people who use terms like "race card" and "race-baitor", and other phrases coined by white aggrievement/white victimhood faction of the far-right, tend to be people who have "issues" with race (whether, or not, they publicly "disparage" other races).

Not sure why that was so hard for you to understand the first (or second, or third) time.


I think you're not being completely honest.


Nonsense. I'm sensing more PROJECTION from you, again. I'd LOVE to discuss the economic impact of illegal immigration on this country. Let's have that discussion. I look forward to your FACT-based arguments about the overall economic impact of undocumented immigrants on the U.S. My very strong guess, however, is that YOU have little-to-zero interest in having a FACT-BASED discussion of that topic with me. I guess we'll see, won't we? If your next post is more deflection (as a expect it will be)....I will also note that in my response.


Have I ever called you a racist? If so, please provide a link or a quote. If not, please apologize. And if you can't apologize, please understand why I describe you (and people like you) with ACCURATE terms like "disingenuous", "cowardly", "ignorant", "dishonest", etc. etc. Those are "names". Those are ACCURATE descriptive terms for you and people like you who can't back up their own arguments on a DEBATE board, like this one. You really need to stop whining so much, veritas. That's not "name calling", it's TRUTH CALLING.


My "fetid imagination"?:lamo

Take a deep breath, man. Congratulations on your mother's immigrant story, and for your marriage. But what you think you "know" means very little to me, since you are a total stranger to me. If I had a nickel for every conservative white guy who loved his latina/asian wife...but holds repulsive views and attitudes about Latinos and latin culture in general...I'd be a richer man.




Ok, so your concern is white power. You've made that crystal clear. At least you're being honest, finally.

Got it.

My questions are...
  • (1) Whose liberties are being attacked? Are you talking about a group of people, or just yourself?
  • (2) Who exactly do you feel is trying to take your liberty away and punish you for the sins of your ancestors?
  • (3)Who, exactly are these people?
  • And (4) What is your solution for this problem that you perceive to exist?
Click to expand...

You really are hopeless. The very obsession with race you try to attribute to me is evident in every post you make. I've nowhere and in no way, in even the vaguest terms indicated ANY interest in, association with or sympathy for, white nationalism and to continue to suggest it is the height of both arrogance and dishonesty. If anyone should be apologizing, it is you. Also, the terms race card and race baiting are perfectly appropriate descriptions for what those people do who see all issues through the prism of race and run to race as their default safe space whenever they can't or won't talk about other issues.

Your continued insults and personal attacks are also born of your weakness of character. What are you afraid of? If you think I can be bullied in any way, you are sadly mistaken. You engage in attacks because you have to make yourself feel good. It's sad but seems to be the case. You also say that you don't believe anything I say and then put your own interpretation on whatever I've said, so there seems little point in trying to engage.

You did say one accurate thing which is that I'm a total stranger to you. Having said that I find it amazing that you pretend to know what I think or believe on a whole host of issues, political, personal and otherwise, even when I have disabused you of many of your claims. It's quite a thing to behold.

As to your questions, the liberties of conservatives, Christians, gun owners, those evil Trump supporters (especially white ones) and anyone else the left doesn't like will all be under assault when and if they get power. The funny part is that the average Joe who votes for them will suffer too, economically if not otherwise.

My solution? Keep them from getting power for as long as possible.
 
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ultmd said:
:lamo
Well, that's all just silly talk. But, speaking of "compassion", what's the extent of "compassion" from you and other conservatives?

Babies in cages?
Family separation?
Stealing babies from mothers at the border, and giving them away to American families...with NO records to ever allow them to EVER reconnect with each other?
Deporting 12 million tax paying undocumented immigrants?

Tell us...what is your definition of "compassion"?

That aside...You do understand that undocumented immigrants can't vote, don't you? When immigration reform is eventually passed, it WILL include legalized status and/or a path to citizenship for most of the 12 Million "illegals" here now, who are already paying taxes and contributing to the economy. If/when that happens, and the vast majority of those people REMEMBER who it was who helped them (and who it was that demonized and terrorized them and their loved ones) when they go to the voting booth...your side will have no one to blame but yourselves.

And again, since almost half of the "illegals" in the country are non-latinos who are here illegally by other means....and conservatives like you NEVER rant about that half of the "illegal immigrant" problem...why do you guys always whine when people point out how your vitriol seems to be aimed EXCLUSIVELY and SELECTIVELY at the "other" half of the problem?

The objective of the Right is clearly to (as you just said) protect the white majority in this country...at any cost. That's clear. And you've made your position on that very clear as well.


Yes you have. In the past, you flubbed (HORRIBLY) multiple attempts to define Socialism, for example. You haven't flubbed at Fascism yet, because you keep running away from my request that you post your definition of the term here, for public discussion.


Yes, Trump is exhibiting many aspects of classic fascist authoritarianism. That really is not arguable. Your problem is that you don't seem to understand what fascism is, or how it is reflected in public policy. That's why you were challenged to define it. But you're afraid to do that. Clearly, you've learned the wrong lesson from your flubs on Socialism, Nazism and Communism here on this board. Instead of learning to educate yourself, you learned to double-down on your ignorance and anti-intellectualism...which is pretty standard for the entire Trump crowd.
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The so called "cages" are not cages at all but chain link room dividers and they were built by Obama NOT Trump. It is also standard policy to separate children from the adult population for their own safety, particularly in those cases where they arrive with adult strangers as opposed to their parents. Obama did all the same things Trump has done but the left likes to lie and pretend otherwise.

As for illegal immigrants, tax paying or otherwise, they are only here because we've allowed them to stay. By right and by law, we could deport all of them. You seem to have a tough time distinguishing between what is legal and what is illegal. Either that or you have a fondness for supporting law breakers as opposed to the law abiding.

No, I made no definition of socialism. I pointed out what it is not, which is the systems in place in Scandinavia that liberals like to point to all the time.

Again, you presented nothing whatever that shows Trump to be fascist. You haven't because you can't because it is laughable nonsense which the ignorant and credulous left imbibes like mother's milk. No wonder you guys are going to keep losing and losing.
 
Bullseye said:
This is the same trivia you spewed days ago. Still just as meaningless.
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You know what they say....

" Facts are stubborn things"

I understand
 
Luther said:
You know what they say....

" Facts are stubborn things"

I understand
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Facts don't predict the future; I can remember when Obama was elected predictions were that it was the beginning of a "Permanent Democratic Majority". How'd that turn out? :cool:
 
Bullseye said:
Facts don't predict the future; I can remember when Obama was elected predictions were that it was the beginning of a "Permanent Democratic Majority". How'd that turn out? :cool:
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I can remember when Obama was elected predictions were that it was the beginning of a "Permanent Democratic Majority". How'd that turn out?
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(1) Trump wasn't a Conservative(Hello)

(2)Trump won by only 197,000 votes in Fl, Penn, Mich and Wis(That's Nothing)

(3)The swing states of Pen, Mich and Wis are white states for now
 
Bullseye said:
Facts don't predict the future; I can remember when Obama was elected predictions were that it was the beginning of a "Permanent Democratic Majority". How'd that turn out? :cool:
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Facts don't predict the future;
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You sure?

"I know of no way of judging of the future but by the past... and judging by the past I wish to know what there has been in the conduct of the British ministry to justify the hopes with which gentlemen have been pleased to solace themselves and the House" - Patrick Henry

"The next gale that sweeps for the North will bring to our ears the clash of resounding arms" - Patrick Henry
 
smallvoice said:
Any idea why? I'll tell you. Illegal aliens.
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iu
 
Luther said:
You sure?

"I know of no way of judging of the future but by the past... and judging by the past I wish to know what there has been in the conduct of the British ministry to justify the hopes with which gentlemen have been pleased to solace themselves and the House" - Patrick Henry

"The next gale that sweeps for the North will bring to our ears the clash of resounding arms" - Patrick Henry
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As I mentioned I remember the set of facts in 2009 that caused some to predict the "permanent Democratic majority". Two years later, it crumbled, with the Dems LOSING the House. So your tiny set of cherry-picked facts doesn't mean much.
 
Luther said:
(1) Trump wasn't a Conservative(Hello)

(2)Trump won by only 197,000 votes in Fl, Penn, Mich and Wis(That's Nothing)

(3)The swing states of Pen, Mich and Wis are white states for now
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Stop me if you've heard this: So what? Oh, and get back to me in November.
 
Bullseye said:
As I mentioned I remember the set of facts in 2009 that caused some to predict the "permanent Democratic majority". Two years later, it crumbled, with the Dems LOSING the House. So your tiny set of cherry-picked facts doesn't mean much.
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As I mentioned I remember the set of facts in 2009 that caused some to predict the "permanent Democratic majority". Two years later, it crumbled, with the Dems LOSING the House.
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You're talking House races?

By the way, I never heard of that and I was active in politics then

Somebody was just trying to get one by ya
 
Captain Adverse said:
My experience has been that "Hispanics," at least those who adhere to the Catholic faith, are fairly conservative. Texas, New Mexico, Arizona have had significant Hispanic populations, and been "Red" for many years.

IMO the "trend" to Blue is coming from the strangest of sources...Left-Leaning Liberals fleeing from the "utopias" of California, New York, and other "high tax" States.
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Agree with your first paragraph. Even read a article or two a while ago suggesting Hispanics as a growth area for the GOP. But the party has blown it for now by not standing up to Trump’s rhetoric, demonizing illegals, anti-legal immigrant stuff, etc.

As to California where I live, some people are leaving because of housing costs made worse cause so many others want to live here. Go figure. I prefer a state that has progressive income taxes rather than one depending on sales taxes which hit the poor harder. Back in its republican days, Colorado even taxed food. That’s changed somewhat since I lived there in the 70s, though.
 
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Nickyjo said:
Agree with your first paragraph. Even read a article or two a while ago suggesting Hispanics as a growth area for the GOP. But the party has blown it for now by not standing up to Trump’s rhetoric, demonizing illegals, anti-legal immigrant stuff, etc.

As to California where I live, some people are leaving because of housing costs made worse cause so many others want to live here. Go figure. I prefer a state that has progressive income taxes rather than one depending on sales taxes which hit the poor harder. Back in its republican days, Colorado even taxed food.
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made worse cause so many others want to live here
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All foreigners
 
Luther said:
You're talking House races?

By the way, I never heard of that and I was active in politics then

Somebody was just trying to get one by ya
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No. What that poster wrote was dead on correct. I'm surprised that anyone who alleges to have been active in politics wouldn't know this:

Permanent Democratic Majority: New Study Says Yes | HuffPost

Doesn't look like they were right in 2016 though. It's highly doubtful they will be correct in the 2020 election either.
 
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