What is a person entitled to demand having for free - paid for by other people working for them?

[gdgyva]

I mean that our entire banking system was created to favor banks. It is a system created by bankers to reward bankers. People do not truly grasp how fixed the system is in favor of bankers and interest. I have few hopes it will ever change but it could if all of us finally said enough is enough. Did you know that the Catholic Church forbid interest up until sometime in the 1300s or so? Why? Because the ancients understood that if you allow money to be lent at interest, one never can escape it.

and without interest, there is NO reason to LOAN money....

why risk money with ZERO reward?

i understand history....and i am a huge believer in capitalism

and i own rental homes....why take on those risks if NO rewards

why buy or build business without rewards?

it is all a risk/reward scenario....the higher the risk, the more i want for a payback

if you cant understand that....you need to do a little more reading

 

[Vadinho]

and without interest, there is NO reason to LOAN money....

why risk money with ZERO reward?

i understand history....and i am a huge believer in capitalism

and i own rental homes....why take on those risks if NO rewards

why buy or build business without rewards?

it is all a risk/reward scenario....the higher the risk, the more i want for a payback

if you cant understand that....you need to do a little more reading

There have been economies in the past that did not allow interest. Do you understand how a bank loans you money? They are allowed to take a deposit of 100 dollars and loan out another 900 dollars that they do not have. Why? Because our banking system is set up to give them that ability so they can make money by loaning out money they do not have to lend. They pull it out of their asses.

 

[Nickyjo]

As the Democrats now engage in picking between candidates who promise the most free stuff - meaning forcing other people work for them - what do you claim a person can demand other people buy for them?

MULTIPLE CHOICE POLL - check everything that you claim other people can demand you buy for them.

Republicans promise free stuff, just to different people. It's the way politics works.

 

[gdgyva]

There have been economies in the past that did not allow interest. Do you understand how a bank loans you money? They are allowed to take a deposit of 100 dollars and loan out another 900 dollars that they do not have. Why? Because our banking system is set up to give them that ability so they can make money by loaning out money they do not have to lend. They pull it out of their asses.

this is not ancient history....and NO MODERN economy works like that

and yes, i am aware of how banks operate....

so open a credit union with you and 10k of your friends....make your own rules....see if it works

i'll see you on the unemployment shortly thereafter as it goes under....

how is it going to MAKE MONEY? you know to pay bills? pay employees? keep the lights on? pay the people who are putting their cash in the place?

cant wait to hear your answer on this....

 

[Vadinho]

this is not ancient history....and NO MODERN economy works like that

and yes, i am aware of how banks operate....

so open a credit union with you and 10k of your friends....make your own rules....see if it works

i'll see you on the unemployment shortly thereafter as it goes under....

how is it going to MAKE MONEY? you know to pay bills? pay employees? keep the lights on? pay the people who are putting their cash in the place?

cant wait to hear your answer on this....

Uh....you are off on a tangent by yourself here. I am simply telling you that the government does not need to go through banks or create interest bearing bonds to fund its own activities. That is it.

 

[foolardi]

Republicans promise free stuff, just to different people. It's the way politics works.

Ok if that be so than specify Exactly who Republicans promise free stuff.
That's news to me.Plus it's a well established fact that Republicans on average give around
30% MORE to charity than do Democrats.

 

[Deuce]

Weird assumption that there's a significant number of people who never pay any taxes ever.

 

[gdgyva]

Uh....you are off on a tangent by yourself here. I am simply telling you that the government does not need to go through banks or create interest bearing bonds to fund its own activities. That is it.

dude...there is debt owed...can we agree on that....approx 22 trillion at this point

we have treasury bills out there denoting those debts....

each one comes up for maturity....and what we offer with zero interest?

i bet the chineses will be the first in line to get those bad boys....lmao

please explain to us morons how you are going to undo what has been done, and continue to fund the federal government

we are all waiting with open ears.....

 

[Integrityrespec]

Actually the Democratic Party is far worse than the most radical classic socialists. Socialists required everyone equally work - and then equally share in the benefits regardless of the person's status or rank. Thus a manager makes the same as someone on the assembly line.

The Democratic Party, instead, promises everything for free, no one required to work, and then will pay for it all by borrowing endlessly more money from other countries figuring they can do that and pay the compounding interest on the money forever.

The Democratic Party believes the rest of the world will fully finance Americans sitting on their ass furiously demanding still more for free - because they believe they as Americans were born entitled to everything and to make everyone else their slaves.

Still furious over taking away their slaves, the Democratic Party has it's new way to make everyone working person their slave. The Democratic Party will never, ever abandon slavery.

From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs - Wikipedia

 

[Vadinho]

dude...there is debt owed...can we agree on that....approx 22 trillion at this point

we have treasury bills out there denoting those debts....

each one comes up for maturity....and what we offer with zero interest?

i bet the chineses will be the first in line to get those bad boys....lmao

please explain to us morons how you are going to undo what has been done, and continue to fund the federal government

we are all waiting with open ears.....

I already told you my opinion about outstanding notes, pay them off in full. No need to create any new ones though, just give the Treasury the money sans interest.

 

[j brown's body]

As the Democrats now engage in picking between candidates who promise the most free stuff - meaning forcing other people work for them - what do you claim a person can demand other people buy for them?

MULTIPLE CHOICE POLL - check everything that you claim other people can demand you buy for them.

This seems a little unfair, as Democrats would pay as well, so it is not justly "other people's money,"

I would prefer to see my money go to help the least of us, as opposed to say, subsidizes for billion dollar corporations that produce products, like corn and oil, which are bad for us.

 

[gdgyva]

I already told you my opinion about outstanding notes, pay them off in full. No need to create any new ones though, just give the Treasury the money sans interest.

HOW?

and where does this magical money come from?

my head is exploding here.....

details....we want exact details of how this magical event transpires....

so a 100k note on a 30 year maturity comes due....you pay the holder, and just add another 100k to the balance sheet? and you want to do that with 22 trillion in debt...poof, its gone

do you understand what that would do to inflation? the dollar? world currencies?

 

[Vadinho]

HOW?

and where does this magical money come from?

my head is exploding here.....

details....we want exact details of how this magical event transpires....

so a 100k note on a 30 year maturity comes due....you pay the holder, and just add another 100k to the balance sheet? and you want to do that with 22 trillion in debt...poof, its gone

do you understand what that would do to inflation? the dollar? world currencies?

It happens with a keystroke. Where exactly do you think money comes from anyway? Are you imagining a stack of bills that gets sent around? Do you think there is a fixed amount of money out there? Where did all that money that was lent out by banks come from? You need to connect the dots since you seem to be aware of fractional reserve banking. If I deposit 1000 bucks in a bank, they can loan another 900 bucks out with a keystroke and get an IOU in return. That 900 bucks is then deposited in a bank that considers it an asset. They then loan out another 800 of it which is then deposited and before you know it, that 1000 bucks turns into a hell of a lot of new money like magic.

 

[molten_dragon]

I think that, to some degree, all of these these things should be provided free of charge to certain people.

My general philosophy is that there should be safety nets in place to provide basic necessities to those who are unable to provide them for themselves. And to some degree or another, most of the things on that list are basic necessities.

Now there are a few exceptions here. Basic medical care should be provided to everyone, free of charge, without exception. No only those who don't have access to other coverage.

College education I don't consider a basic necessity, but I do consider having a more educated populace to be a very reasonable idea. But I don't know that simply sending everyone to college for free is exactly how I'd go about it. I'd make it more like getting a business loan. If you want to apply for free post-secondary education, you need to submit a plan and some documentation that shows you're a wise investment. There should be some leniency obviously since we're dealing with 18 and 19 year old kids here, but if your plan is to go to a $50,000 a year private college and become an author, or you're a solid C- student who plans to go to medical school, you shouldn't be approved for a free education. I also think free education shouldn't necessarily stop at college. Take disabled people for example. A lot of people who are receiving disability could probably still work. Maybe part time, maybe even full time, but for a lot of them the problem is that they can't continue doing the work they currently have the qualifications and experience to do. Those people should receive a free education to help them transition to a new career that they're capable of managing with whatever their disability is.

 

[Nickyjo]

Ok if that be so than specify Exactly who Republicans promise free stuff.
That's news to me.Plus it's a well established fact that Republicans on average give around
30% MORE to charity than do Democrats.

If you have more, you can give more. Farm subsidies, tax breaks, lower rates for some investment income, the right to incorporate, these and other things are breaks Republicans give to their supporters. Of course they pay taxes as do those who get free stuff. And what’s your beef with helping those who make less, given that we help those who make more?

 

[gdgyva]

It happens with a keystroke. Where exactly do you think money comes from anyway? Are you imagining a stack of bills that gets sent around? Do you think there is a fixed amount of money out there? Where did all that money that was lent out by banks come from? You need to connect the dots since you seem to be aware of fractional reserve banking. If I deposit 1000 bucks in a bank, they can loan another 900 bucks out with a keystroke and get an IOU in return. That 900 bucks is then deposited in a bank that considers it an asset. They then loan out another 800 of it which is then deposited and before you know it, that 1000 bucks turns into a hell of a lot of new money like magic.

can we talk about government notes and debt...that is how OUR conversation started

i understand about banking...that is for another thread, another conversation

your comment was about government debt.....i dont want this going off on a tangent about the other things

stop trying to turn the conversation....really simple....

what happens to the debt, and the worlds economies when you "poof" away the 22 trillion in debt as you said with a keystroke?

can you answer those questions? yes or no

 

[Vadinho]

can we talk about government notes and debt...that is how OUR conversation started

i understand about banking...that is for another thread, another conversation

your comment was about government debt.....i dont want this going off on a tangent about the other things

stop trying to turn the conversation....really simple....

what happens to the debt, and the worlds economies when you "poof" away the 22 trillion in debt as you said with a keystroke?

can you answer those questions? yes or no

I guess you have never understood what I am trying to say so I will make it plain for you. If the government wanted to pay it all off, they could do it with a keystroke. Why? Because fiat money allows you to do that anytime you want. I should ask you a question though so you see the magnitude of the disinformation spread about this topic. How do you think under the current structure all 23 trillion will be paid off especially since we run a deficit every year? Are you going to tax us for it? Cut expenses to create a surplus to pay it? Come on, lets hear the possible ways you think it could ever become zero.

 

[Vadinho]

I am sure that very few of us fully grasp that all of us can have everything we want if we understand the true nature of money and banking. Folks, our system was set up by bankers for bankers. Everything you were ever taught about money was created by people who think money is a way to make more money by loaning it to you with interest. History proves that humanity once thought this to be one of the worst forms of oppression, witness Jesus throwing the money changers out of the temple. Interest was forbidden for thousands of years in many civilizations. Some created concepts like jubilees that forgave all debts on a cycle. All of us are now targets of bankers, we cannot escape it because we accept it as if it was an axiom. If you want fiat money, you have to borrow it. Well I am here to tell you that if we all say enough is enough, we can change things. If you do not know what MMT is, go check it out on youtube. Don't be a sucker.

 

[gdgyva]

I guess you have never understood what I am trying to say so I will make it plain for you. If the government wanted to pay it all off, they could do it with a keystroke. Why? Because fiat money allows you to do that anytime you want. I should ask you a question though so you see the magnitude of the disinformation spread about this topic. How do you think under the current structure all 23 trillion will be paid off especially since we run a deficit every year? Are you going to tax us for it? Cut expenses to create a surplus to pay it? Come on, lets hear the possible ways you think it could ever become zero.

ok

as i thought

you have no answer for the question

i gave you every opportunity to enlighten

as far as the debt...IT CAN BE PAID OFF

but the people have to want that to happen

we actually have to live within our means, like actual families do....

we bring in 4 trillion, we spend 4 trillion...NOTHING MORE.....

we have xxx set aside for the inevitable emergencies, floods, hurricanes, earthquakes....and if that isnt enough, we depend on charity

we cut government by 30% across the board....including defense....

and we have to deal with the 800 lb gorillas in the room...social security and medicare

it can be done....would take approx 25-30 years and a LOT of austerity....but it can be done

 

[foolardi]

I think that, to some degree, all of these these things should be provided free of charge to certain people.

My general philosophy is that there should be safety nets in place to provide basic necessities to those who are unable to provide them for themselves. And to some degree or another, most of the things on that list are basic necessities.

Now there are a few exceptions here. Basic medical care should be provided to everyone, free of charge, without exception. No only those who don't have access to other coverage.

College education I don't consider a basic necessity, but I do consider having a more educated populace to be a very reasonable idea. But I don't know that simply sending everyone to college for free is exactly how I'd go about it. I'd make it more like getting a business loan. If you want to apply for free post-secondary education, you need to submit a plan and some documentation that shows you're a wise investment. There should be some leniency obviously since we're dealing with 18 and 19 year old kids here, but if your plan is to go to a $50,000 a year private college and become an author, or you're a solid C- student who plans to go to medical school, you shouldn't be approved for a free education. I also think free education shouldn't necessarily stop at college. Take disabled people for example. A lot of people who are receiving disability could probably still work. Maybe part time, maybe even full time, but for a lot of them the problem is that they can't continue doing the work they currently have the qualifications and experience to do. Those people should receive a free education to help them transition to a new career that they're capable of managing with whatever their disability is.

Safety Nets exist Outside the purview of Big Brother Government.
Like Soup Kitchens and the YMCA and CAtholic Charities.Obama knows that.
That is why His ObamaCare was basically a popular way of Expanding Medicaid
and make it appear as if some Magic wand.Many people who did not have Health Coverage
were either too dumb or lazy or both to know how to enlist and qualify for Medicaid.
In My State of Kentucky the Governor { a big Liberal } Beshear was lauding the
greatness of ObamaCare.Basically all it entailed was an expansion of the States Medicaid.
Yet Beshear was used by Obama of an example of a State done Proud by his ObamaCare.
You seldom heard the Word medicaid when talking about ObamaCare.

 

[molten_dragon]

Safety Nets exist Outside the purview of Big Brother Government.
Like Soup Kitchens and the YMCA and CAtholic Charities.

Social safety nets should not depend on charity for a number of reasons.

 

[foolardi]

Social safety nets should not depend on charity for a number of reasons.

NO ... Actually to the contrary.Charities are one of the most traditional benefactors in a
Free World and economy.Where did you learn this contrary.
Whereas Climate Change { changed from Global Warming } has Yet to prove
helping One individual.This entire debate is rife with Political hypocrisy.
Charities are crucial and free hand-outs like Food Stamps are exploitable.
Of course we know how the Clinton Foundation { Charitable } operated.
They used less than 10% of incoming monies to help others.
90 % to help themselves { Pay salaries and operating costs }.

 

[Aristaeus]

As the Democrats now engage in picking between candidates who promise the most free stuff - meaning forcing other people work for them - what do you claim a person can demand other people buy for them?

MULTIPLE CHOICE POLL - check everything that you claim other people can demand you buy for them.

Faulty question as working people would also have access to these amenities.

 

[perthbum]

If a person cannot work due to illness or a medical condition they have food, shelter, free medical for his family, enough money to feed and look after his children, this is basic humanity, if a person denies them this he is not a human being IMO

 

[perthbum]

So if you add all the ones that think he should get something against those who say he should not get anything the ones who have empathy are winning by a large margin, glad Americans realise people need help.