What happened to the GOP I once voted for?

[Cordelier]

Oh ....definitely corrupt.

Well, that's basically the crux of the article you linked to, isn't it? If we all agree on that fact, then why would any of us seek to refute it?

 

[Cordelier]

I studied the war. The US and Britain let the Russians slug it out with the Germans to weaken Germany. Instead of launching a second front immediately we went into Africa to try and get our troops battle ready before taking on the Germans. The problem is FDR promised the second front before talking to his military leaders. FDR was informed that our troops with so little training had no chance in hell of going up against a crack German Army. The fact that so much of the German military was tied up in or already died in Russia was the only reason D-day didn't stand for defeat day. We were lucky most of the German army was tied up in Russia or spread too thin trying to defend the European continent. Either way we lost only 1/2 as many men in all of WW2 fighting the Germans and the Japanese as Russia lost in few single battles. If we lost a million men on D-day the way Russia did at Stalingrad or Kursk we most likely would have given up.

Well, as a student of World War II then you know that staying out of the war in order to let the Germans and Soviets batter each other would have been the policy of a Halifax Government, not a Churchill one. Was that not the crux of the proposal Rudolf Hess intended to make when he took his flight to Scotland in May of 1941? And undoubtedly, it was Stalin's intent to take the same course when he entered into the Non-Aggression Pact with the Germans in 1939 and participate as a willing co-conspirator in the German invasion of Poland and the subjugation of the Baltic States. Perhaps such burns should be expected as a matter of course when one chooses to dance with the devil?

In point of fact, when the Soviet Union invaded Finland, was it not argued within the Chamberlain War Cabinet by then-First Lord of the Admiralty Churchill that the UK and France should intervene on the side of the Finns?

 

[PIPEWRENCH]

Well, as a student of World War II then you know that staying out of the war in order to let the Germans and Soviets batter each other would have been the policy of a Halifax Government, not a Churchill one. Was that not the crux of the proposal Rudolf Hess intended to make when he took his flight to Scotland in May of 1941? And undoubtedly, it was Stalin's intent to take the same course when he entered into the Non-Aggression Pact with the Germans in 1939 and participate as a willing co-conspirator in the German invasion of Poland and the subjugation of the Baltic States. Perhaps such burns should be expected as a matter of course when one chooses to dance with the devil?

In point of fact, when the Soviet Union invaded Finland, was it not argued within the Chamberlain War Cabinet by then-First Lord of the Admiralty Churchill that the UK and France should intervene on the side of the Finns?

I was just stating fact that did not make it into our government run schools. We will never know for sure what was going on behind closed doors back then.

Russia was in a no win scenario. Japan attacked Russia on one side and anyone with half a brain knew Germany needed the resources of Russia to achieve their world domination. Russia was poor with barely the GDP of California and at the mercy of Germany with Japan on the other front. They had to sign a non aggression pact and cooperate to some degree with the powers to be. They could not depend on us to be of much help. At least until our backside was next anyway. Stalin was buying time to try and get Russia ready for the inevitable. I wonder how this country would fair in similar circumstances. The way Japan so easily destroyed our pacific fleet is proof how inept our leaders were at the time. Could you imagine Trump letting our pacific fleet get destroyed by a supposed surprise attack during a world war by Japan when they were attacking every island in the Pacific. It doesn't get much more inept than that.

 

[Cordelier]

I was just stating fact that did not make it into our government run schools. We will never know for sure what was going on behind closed doors back then.

Russia was in a no win scenario. Japan attacked Russia on one side and anyone with half a brain knew Germany needed the resources of Russia to achieve their world domination. Russia was poor with barely the GDP of California and at the mercy of Germany with Japan on the other front. They had to sign a non aggression pact and cooperate to some degree with the powers to be. They could not depend on us to be of much help. At least until our backside was next anyway. Stalin was buying time to try and get Russia ready for the inevitable. I wonder how this country would fair in similar circumstances. The way Japan so easily destroyed our pacific fleet is proof how inept our leaders were at the time. Could you imagine Trump letting our pacific fleet get destroyed by a supposed surprise attack during a world war by Japan when they were attacking every island in the Pacific. It doesn't get much more inept than that.

The Soviet Union made it's bed starting with it's purges in the 1930's that essentially wiped out their top military minds - Generals like Tukhachevsky, Shtern and Smushkevich and many others were an irreplaceable loss to their military readiness. Then they compounded that by cozying up to the Germans with the 1939 Non-Aggression pact and their willingness to conspire in the invasion of Poland. And then, as if that wasn't enough, they were so docile that they didn't use the time they bought themselves to prepare for the inevitable war to come and were caught completely by surprise by Operation Barbarosa. I think that was pretty much the height of ineptitude.

As for Pearl Harbor, we can debate that all you want... I will point out, though, that although the Japanese had been tied down in their land war in China for the better part of a decade, they weren't "attacking every island in the Pacific" until after December 7.