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Was Trump right to back the firing of Capt. Crozier

eohrnberger said:
cpwill said:
Agreeably I haven't followed this closely, but I am a bit of a stickler for that. I have seen folks in this thread suggest that he put classified communications into the hands of the public.... but no one actually demonstrate that he has done so. Can you provide that, please?
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Link cited above.
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Behind a Paywall :shrug:

If you mean this quote:

Modly said that Crozier showed “poor judgment” by sending the letter by email to 20 or 30 people. He did not directly accuse Crozier of leaking the letter but noted that it appeared in Crozier’s hometown newspaper.

then

1. This has no reference to classified information

2. I'm sorry, but I laugh at the notion that someone exercised poor judgement by putting 20-30 people onto a message like that. That is a pathetic, obvious, lie. :) Executive Comms routinely have that many people (and more) attached in CC lines, often in distribution lists (example, if a CG puts out such a message, he'll have his SGM on there, his CAG, his Deputy, his Chief of Staff, his J/G-Staff Directors and their SGM's, and that's only within his command - recipients will also have their support offices on the cc' line).

If that is the metric by which they are going to start firing Senior Officers (you put people on the cc line of something important!!!), then they need to fire every officer in the military above the grade of 04, and change all the training that emphasizes flat communications. :p
 
apdst said:
The service has rules. The captain violated those rules. As a senior officer, he knew better. He got what he deserved. He oughta be drummed out of the service.
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None of the fools who screwed up on 9/11 got fired.
 
So a Captain can announce to the world that an aircraft carrier is off line or should be at his discretion?

Wondering how many sailors are in that high risk category ; over 65 with underlying conditions? Nurses, doctors, EMTs, fire, police, grocery clerks and other essential workers are in combat every day. Not a good optic for the Navy.

Charges should be pressed against the Skipper.



Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk
 
ldsrptcvt said:
None of the fools who screwed up on 9/11 got fired.
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How many of them violated the rules and regulations of the service?

Unless any of our officers and NCO's did that, there was no reason to relieve anyone.
 
Eriech said:
So a Captain can announce to the world that an aircraft carrier is off line or should be at his discretion?

Wondering how many sailors are in that high risk category ; over 65 with underlying conditions? Nurses, doctors, EMTs, fire, police, grocery clerks and other essential workers are in combat every day. Not a good optic for the Navy.

Charges should be pressed against the Skipper.



Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk
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The navy was stalling him


He put his crew first


Hes a hero
 
Eriech said:
So a Captain can announce to the world that an aircraft carrier is off line or should be at his discretion?

Wondering how many sailors are in that high risk category ; over 65 with underlying conditions? Nurses, doctors, EMTs, fire, police, grocery clerks and other essential workers are in combat every day. Not a good optic for the Navy.

Charges should be pressed against the Skipper.



Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk
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Charges? Hell, if a Democrat wins the election he'll have a carrier named after him.
 
apdst said:
No other ship in The United States Navy is infected; at least not infected on the scale of The Roosevelt. The captain should have done a better job of protecting his ship.
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The Reagan CVN is tied up pierside at Yokosuka Naval Base in Tokyo Bay because there's Convid-19 among its crew. Sounds like the Navy is giving the Reagan crew the herd immunity treatment from top to bottom, ie, everyone gets sick until no more sailors get sick. The herd immunity approach is also called the Captain Bligh treatment. U.S. Forces at Yokosuka are on lockdown.

Pentagon has meanwhile stopped releasing info about numbers of infected sailors on named ships, saying only total infections across the Navy and in each service. At Aviano Air Base in Italy the USAF 31st Fighter Wing has 134 people in isolation or self-quarantine.



As of March 30, 182 airmen have tested positive for COVID-19, an increase of 18 people compared to the previous day. Twelve airmen have been hospitalized for the illness and 11 have recovered, according to data released by the Air Force on Tuesday. The number of Air Force dependents, contractors and civilians with coronavirus is also rising, with positive cases logged for 60 civilians, 51 dependents and 16 contractors.

Despite the rise in cases, [AF Chief of Staff] Goldfein said he remains confident that wing commanders at Air Force installations are best equipped to make decisions on what social distancing parameters to implement, which training to cancel and which risks to endure. “Tinker [Air Force Base, Okla.] doesn’t look like Goodfellow [AFB, Texas], which doesn’t look like Kunsan [Air Base in South Korea] which doesn’t look like Ramstein [Air Base in Germany],” he said, pointing to differences in geographic area, proximity to cities and number of COVID-19 cases. “Every base has got a unique dynamic. … A one size fits all approach for every installation is doomed to fail.” Brig. Gen. Daniel T. Lasica, the wing commander, said he knows that many are concerned about the virus and some are struggling to take care of children on their own, or pay for child care. He urged airmen to talk to their leaders if they needed help.

Over 100 at Aviano Air Base in self-quarantine, others told to keep their distance in public as coronavirus precaution - Europe - Stripes
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That would be leaders such as Capt. Crozier of course.

It also could sound like Gen. Goldfein is giving out information to anyone listing.
 
sjmay said:
Like I said,

Damned if he does, damned if he doesn't. I guarantee you, he comes out saying this was wrong, you and everyone else would be ****ing screaming that he doesn't believe in the people he put in charge, he's not backing up the Sec Nav etc....
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I would have applauded Trump for over-ruling a petty decision. Capt. Crozier was a trusted and liked leader for his crew, unconvinced the brass were going to help in time. It was his responsibility to fight for his crew, not worry how it might reveal administrative shortcomings. It's all part of the cover-up for elite officials who are slow to act. The elite can never be criticized; smacks of Stalin to me.
 
cpwill said:
Behind a Paywall :shrug:
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Not a paywall here. I think you may have to disable ad block for see washingtonpost.com articles. :shrug:

If you mean this quote:

Modly said that Crozier showed “poor judgment” by sending the letter by email to 20 or 30 people. He did not directly accuse Crozier of leaking the letter but noted that it appeared in Crozier’s hometown newspaper.

then

1. This has no reference to classified information
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Combat unit's combat preparedness is not classified? Interesting. You'd think that would be. :shrug:

2. I'm sorry, but I laugh at the notion that someone exercised poor judgement by putting 20-30 people onto a message like that. That is a pathetic, obvious, lie. :) Executive Comms routinely have that many people (and more) attached in CC lines, often in distribution lists (example, if a CG puts out such a message, he'll have his SGM on there, his CAG, his Deputy, his Chief of Staff, his J/G-Staff Directors and their SGM's, and that's only within his command - recipients will also have their support offices on the cc' line).

If that is the metric by which they are going to start firing Senior Officers (you put people on the cc line of something important!!!), then they need to fire every officer in the military above the grade of 04, and change all the training that emphasizes flat communications. :p
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Not being a military officer I can't evaluate the content of your post. Like I posted above, it would seem to me that combat preparedness would be something that the military wouldn't want to be public, else where do you think the enemy would target an attack? Against the most combat prepared units?
 
ldsrptcvt said:
I would have applauded Trump for over-ruling a petty decision. Capt. Crozier was a trusted and liked leader for his crew, unconvinced the brass were going to help in time. It was his responsibility to fight for his crew, not worry how it might reveal administrative shortcomings. It's all part of the cover-up for elite officials who are slow to act. The elite can never be criticized; smacks of Stalin to me.
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But hes not a war criminal.
 
apdst said:
How many of them violated the rules and regulations of the service?

Unless any of our officers and NCO's did that, there was no reason to relieve anyone.
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Incompetence is no barrier to job security in the GOP. In fact, they seem to prefer it. All the better to sour Americans on their government.
 
eohrnberger said:
Not a paywall here. I think you may have to disable ad block for see washingtonpost.com articles. :shrug:



Combat unit's combat preparedness is not classified? Interesting. You'd think that would be. :shrug:



Not being a military officer I can't evaluate the content of your post. Like I posted above, it would seem to me that combat preparedness would be something that the military wouldn't want to be public, else where do you think the enemy would target an attack? Against the most combat prepared units?
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An aircraft carrier with 5000 sick sailors is not "combat prepared."
 
ldsrptcvt said:
I would have applauded Trump for over-ruling a petty decision. Capt. Crozier was a trusted and liked leader for his crew, unconvinced the brass were going to help in time. It was his responsibility to fight for his crew, not worry how it might reveal administrative shortcomings. It's all part of the cover-up for elite officials who are slow to act. The elite can never be criticized; smacks of Stalin to me.
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Yes, I think you're right. Ironically, it was Trump's Deep State at work here.
 
Michael Cole said:
An aircraft carrier with 5000 sick sailors is not "combat prepared."
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I wouldn't think so either. But 5K sailors isn't what's being reported as the number of afflicted, and the Navy is air lifting them to a medical facility that can care for them. Let's just hope that the air lift is faster than the on board spreading of infections, and that on the flight to the carrier, they are bringing replacement crew.
 
apdst said:
How did his ship get infected, to begin with? That's on him.
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How did the U.S. get infected to begin with? That's on Trump. (by your reasoning)
 
Anyone that believes Trump didn’t sign off on the relief of Capt. Crozier hasn’t been paying attention.


The ACTING SECNAV relieved the Captain; you think he doesn’t ask before he farts, I have a deal for you........
 
grip said:
But all he did was bring attention to a growing problem. I guess it didn't fit the Admins narrative of "speak no evil."
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This isn't even worth debating. All commanders are to follow the chain of command otherwise our military organization breaks down. If all commanders started doing what they wanted instead of following proper procedures we would have a serious national security issue. His removal from command was 100% valid. Sucky situation for him to be in but he didn't follow orders and thats a guaranteed firing and thats exactly what happened. A good lesson for all commanders who think they can defy protocol.
 
AlphaOmega said:
This isn't even worth debating. All commanders are to follow the chain of command otherwise our military organization breaks down. If all commanders started doing what they wanted instead of following proper procedures we would have a serious national security issue. His removal from command was 100% valid. Sucky situation for him to be in but he didn't follow orders and thats a guaranteed firing and thats exactly what happened. A good lesson for all commanders who think they can defy protocol.
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Of course you have a link?
 
AlphaOmega said:
This isn't even worth debating. All commanders are to follow the chain of command otherwise our military organization breaks down. If all commanders started doing what they wanted instead of following proper procedures we would have a serious national security issue. His removal from command was 100% valid. Sucky situation for him to be in but he didn't follow orders and thats a guaranteed firing and thats exactly what happened. A good lesson for all commanders who think they can defy protocol.
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He got the job done. He got his crew off that ship.


Crew before career
 
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