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Walmart is where the trade war comes home

Grand Mal said:
Do you think tariffs will create jobs? It's a tax paid by consumers when the tariff is on manufactured goods and a tax on manufacturers when it's on raw materials (steel and aluminum, for example).
Unemployment has been at a twenty-year low in the US but that might change now. Thing is, if unemployment does go up Trump will be pointing at everyone else in the world and his followers will just get even madder at whoever he points at.
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Tariffs will create domestic jobs and yes the costs will be passed on to the consumers. It works in our situation because of how much consumer demand there is.

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KevinKohler said:
True. But it begins with manufacturing. If a made in China, sold in Walmart sneaker costs 30 bucks instead of 20, that might be enough to entice someone to make sneakers, here in the US, to be sold for the same 30 bucks.
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Wont happen in the US, the shoe factory would be move to one of three countries. Vietnam, Bangladesh, Indonesia at this point in time. US labor rates would still be too high for commodity level shoes. If however it was a $120 pair of shoes, then it might. But I doubt Nike is going to make shoes in the US and lose $5 in profit per pair of shoes to make them in the US
 
People aren't getting this yet, the American consumer pays the tariffs in the end, not China. Walmart is a big player, that's for sure, and it's because of Walmart that the 'mom and pop' stores got pushed out in the first place. There's no going back from that, those days are over forever. The competition from chains like Target and Walmart have pushed independent boutique outlets in big American malls out of those venues and malls are beginning to shut down all over the US.

Amazon is where the majority of Americans are going to be paying the price for Trump's tariff war on China. Amazon is the e-market giant and thousands upon thousands of independent merchants that sell their products through Amazon are going to be directly affected and they're going to pass that right back onto their customers by an increase in prices.
 
trouble13 said:
Tariffs will create domestic jobs and yes the costs will be passed on to the consumers. It works in our situation because of how much consumer demand there is.

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It now costs more to manufacture anything out of steel or aluminum in the US than anywhere else in the world. That's not the way to make America more competetive.
 
Grand Mal said:
It now costs more to manufacture anything out of steel or aluminum in the US than anywhere else in the world. That's not the way to make America more competetive.
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Canadian grocery bills are going up. Compromise time?
 
Lord Tammerlain said:
No need for a prediction when it comes straight from the horses mouth
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So, the "we told you so" BS isn't going to fly. Right?

Personally, I'm not feeling the pain. So what, a suitcase costs $25 instead of $20? I doubt that will have the crippling effect that Leftists are hoping for.
 
HenryChinaski said:
I'm not defending Walmart, I don't shop there. I'm kickin' back and laughing over how he's ****ing his base whom many do shop there and all the while they keep asking for more. :lol:
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"Thank you, Sir. May I have another?"
 
HumblePi said:
People aren't getting this yet, the American consumer pays the tariffs in the end, not China. Walmart is a big player, that's for sure, and it's because of Walmart that the 'mom and pop' stores got pushed out in the first place. There's no going back from that, those days are over forever. The competition from chains like Target and Walmart have pushed independent boutique outlets in big American malls out of those venues and malls are beginning to shut down all over the US.

Amazon is where the majority of Americans are going to be paying the price for Trump's tariff war on China. Amazon is the e-market giant and thousands upon thousands of independent merchants that sell their products through Amazon are going to be directly affected and they're going to pass that right back onto their customers by an increase in prices.
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Who isn't getting this? Republicans have been saying this for years, any tax and regulation placed on businesses is ultimately passed on to the consumer.
 
KevinKohler said:
True, but mom and pops are used to lower margins. Hinge, my first sentence in my post. In addition, increased cost of made in China crap will increase demand for more locally sourced crap. When locally sourced crap is readily available, the mom and pops will be able to start carrying it long before the targets and walmarts of world can.
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What makes you think that mom and pops work off a lower margin?
 
HenryChinaski said:
https://money.cnn.com/2018/09/19/news/companies/walmart-tariffs-trump-china/index.html I can't take all of this winning. I do find it hysterical that Trump has convinced his base that he's the "working class president" for the little guy. :lol:
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I like that it mentions grills, but the last time I went to walmart nearly all of them were us made, as were stanley toolboxes, infact lately I see more and more american made at walmart, they will adapt just fine as other sellers fill the gap, much of it may not be american made, but will move away from chinese made. Do not be surprised if tarrifs continue that in a year you will be seeing light sets made in taiwan and your kitchenware made in germany.
 
celticwar17 said:
The whole point is to get these companies to stop producing out of CHina... So yea, of course they are going to be more expensive, THIS is the incentive to go elsewhere for your buisness...
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Sad thing is chinese goods have become more expensive naturally, trump is just pushing their market dominance off the cliff faster. Under obama anerican manufacturing started returning, not from any of his own policies, but from market correction. Cheap chinese goods require transport to stay cheap, tarrifs to stay low, and in many cases the chinese govt to subsidise the product to be below market cost, which favors chinese companies but hurts american companies outsourcing to china.

The transport cost in recent years has been the dealbreaker, everyone orders from online, things get shipped. The problem is there is a major shortage of truck drivers to handle all this nationwide shipping to individuals that used to be handled by shipping to local stores that catered to buyers. This has meant that wages for that industry are rising in order to keep drivers there, as the shortage means simply replacing those that leave is not a simple solution and damaging to profit and demand.
 
Crovax said:
I think you underestimate how much product a single Walmart sells vs a mom and pop
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I don't at all. I work in the industry. I understand very clearly the deals and contracts that get made in order to offer a certain product and brand, at a certain price.
 
OrphanSlug said:
If we are going to be real, then we need to be real about all of it.

There is no doubt that we have a few very large companies out there that have a business model dependent on cheap offshore labor manufacturing products sold here using retail labor also in the lowest income quintile. There is no doubt that these business models, like Walmart or Target or others, created for themselves C level executive pay structures that are off the chart.

Here is the issue and it boils down to economic behavior.

You are already admitting that it took time to get to this point, in this case opening up China several decades back to the point we are at now. And with that came a few consequences, in this case who is harmed first by tariffs. What we know is these giant organizations have enough pull in the market place to increase prices as their costs increase. We also know that it is extremely unlikely that higher costs because of these tariffs will be absorbed by margins.

So what that really means is the consumer sees the impact first, and in the case of these large retail chains that means the lowest income quintiles end up most vulnerable to Trump's actions.

In this case Walmart is specifically telling Trump what they will do because of these tariffs, and that is raise prices. Because of market share conditions and whom primarily frequents these shops it puts the consumer into a position of buying less of those products because of higher prices or dealing with the price increases by consumption at a smaller level. Either way, what is not happening is Walmart telling Trump margins are harmed. Demand has not really changed for these products even with aggregate shifts in the price outcome, mainly because we are not talking about strict market economics here. Demand might see that eventual shift as well but we are talking about products solidly in the basket of common goods purchased. Small business might be able to respond, the question is when and how much do they absorb in that opportunity.

It took time to develop an economic model dependent on cheap offshore labor, going with tariffs drops a bomb on that model. We know, not suspect... know, when that happens wealth ends up protected first and the lowest income quintile is harmed the fastest. And we are proving that now.

So of course we are critical of Trump, the trade war is that bomb that causes more immediate changes in behavior. In this case, the lowest income quintile... a group Republicans love to not give a **** about until they need to employ them, jail them, or lie to them to obtain a vote from them.
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Well reasoned, and not wrong.


If we were able to snap our fingers, and destroy all drugs, who would be most affected? Those addicted to drugs. It would suck for them. Hell, some would die. In the end, though, the addicts would benefit.

Cheaply made, currency manipulated, artificially cheap Chinese **** is a drug. And it's not a healthy one.
 
Lord Tammerlain said:
Wont happen in the US, the shoe factory would be move to one of three countries. Vietnam, Bangladesh, Indonesia at this point in time. US labor rates would still be too high for commodity level shoes. If however it was a $120 pair of shoes, then it might. But I doubt Nike is going to make shoes in the US and lose $5 in profit per pair of shoes to make them in the US
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Saddly, I have to completely agree with this.

Gotta start somewhere, though, and step one is getting ourselves unaddicted to cheap Chinese crap.
 
Crovax said:
You have that backwards. Just look at a the innovative technology employed in the Walmart inventory line and look at a mom and pop store that runs virtually the same as it did 30 years ago. Walmart and Target are always changing
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Walmart does used much more sophisticated tools. Mom and pops are just beginning to use DCP, or in some cases, paper inventories, still. Walmart and Target are using SAP or newer. Symbol guns. Tablets/zebra devices, etc. Doesn't make them more reactive. Their size prevents that. It takes them a week just to roll out a sign change download for price changes on just one category. That same thing takes a mom and pop less than an hour.
 
beerftw said:
Sad thing is chinese goods have become more expensive naturally, trump is just pushing their market dominance off the cliff faster. Under obama anerican manufacturing started returning, not from any of his own policies, but from market correction. Cheap chinese goods require transport to stay cheap, tarrifs to stay low, and in many cases the chinese govt to subsidise the product to be below market cost, which favors chinese companies but hurts american companies outsourcing to china.

The transport cost in recent years has been the dealbreaker, everyone orders from online, things get shipped. The problem is there is a major shortage of truck drivers to handle all this nationwide shipping to individuals that used to be handled by shipping to local stores that catered to buyers. This has meant that wages for that industry are rising in order to keep drivers there, as the shortage means simply replacing those that leave is not a simple solution and damaging to profit and demand.
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I understand that's it's a challenge we are going to have to overcome... I am happy we are starting to hold China accountable for what they have been doing. I am optimistic this will help us ween ourselves away from China.

We really shouldn't be trading with China at all in my opinion.
 
celticwar17 said:
I understand that's it's a challenge we are going to have to overcome... I am happy we are starting to hold China accountable for what they have been doing. I am optimistic this will help us ween ourselves away from China.

We really shouldn't be trading with China at all in my opinion.
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I use plenty of chinese made goods and have no issue with trade with china other than chinas dirty practices like subsidizing products below cost to put competition out of business knowing they can not make a profit until the competitors go under, or their currency manipulation, which is downright wrongs, they are not controlling inflation or deflation, they are intentionally devaluing their currency to remain cheap.
 
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