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Walmart is where the trade war comes home

Superfly said:
Many of us have said all along that Trump will hurt his base more than anything. This is just more proof of that. 69% of Walmart shoppers identify as Republicans.

Wish they could have seen this before, but it's not like we didn't tell them, over and over.
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You predicted tariffs? Link us to that post.
 
I will say this, though:

If the GOP are now the party of controlled economy, consumer taxes, authoritarianism, and Constitutional encroachment - and the Dems are now fighting against these things - this is a good thing for the Dems! They would be reverting towards Classical Liberalism, and I'm all for that as long as it doesn't slide into Libertarianism.

(despite my having to chose "Libertarian-Left" as my lean, due to limited choices)
 
KevinKohler said:
Anyone care to post a graph of the margin on the majority of these companies products?

Looks to me like they will have to up their prices to maintain those margins...which, of course, makes smaller entities (mom and pops) more competitive.


Why do you guys hate small businesses?
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Not many “mom & pop” operations in the same zip-code as a Walmart, anymore........
 
Chomsky said:
I will say this, though:

If the GOP are now the party of controlled economy, consumer taxes, authoritarianism, and Constitutional encroachment - and the Dems are now fighting against these things - this is a good thing for the Dems! They would be reverting towards Classical Liberalism, and I'm all for that as long as it doesn't slide into Libertarianism.

(despite my having to chose "Libertarian-Left" as my lean, due to limited choices)
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That seems to be exactly what's happening. I'm not sure if this makes me happy or sad...I was kinda hoping both of those parties would burn to the ground, and we could begging really voting on substance, rather than party affiliation.
 
Rexedgar said:
Not many “mom & pop” operations in the same zip-code as a Walmart, anymore........
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True. But it begins with manufacturing. If a made in China, sold in Walmart sneaker costs 30 bucks instead of 20, that might be enough to entice someone to make sneakers, here in the US, to be sold for the same 30 bucks.
 
KevinKohler said:
True, but mom and pops are used to lower margins. Hinge, my first sentence in my post. In addition, increased cost of made in China crap will increase demand for more locally sourced crap. When locally sourced crap is readily available, the mom and pops will be able to start carrying it long before the targets and walmarts of world can.
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What makes you think that? Why would a us retailer sell 100 units to a few mom and pop stores that won’t guarantee a rebuy when they can continually sell 10000 units to Walmart on a quarterly basis. Scale allows things to be produced cheaper, Walmart and Target will have local stuff faster and cheaper than the mom and pops and it will hurt them even more than before since now they won’t have a “but our stuff is made in the USA” talking point advantage
 
KevinKohler said:
Did you read my others?


Why blame increased prices on tariffs, when the company selling those products posts record setting profit margins year after year? That same company that won't pay their employees enough to live, so they sustain themselves with government subsidies?

It's like....you guys are republicans now, lol.
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It's a fast moving thread, but I did catch bit & pieces in a quick read, However I think you're missing a point: Tariffs are blanket taxes on all Americans & all American entities. Mom & Pops will still have pay the same tariffs the big-boxes do. As you pointed-out, tariffs may stimulate domestic production, but it's not going to help Mom & Pop retailers.
 
KevinKohler said:
Average Walmart shopper (around here, anyway) is an EBT customer.

Can't fathom there are too many of them who voted Trump.
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Lots of them are overweight white trash...pretty much trump's base as far as I can tell
 
Crovax said:
What makes you think that? Why would a us retailer sell 100 units to a few mom and pop stores that won’t guarantee a rebuy when they can continually sell 10000 units to Walmart on a quarterly basis. Scale allows things to be produced cheaper, Walmart and Target will have local stuff faster and cheaper than the mom and pops and it will hurt them even more than before since now they won’t have a “but our stuff is made in the USA” talking point advantage
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Because Walmart already has millions of units bought and paid for from China, negotiated in a deal likely made 2 years previous. Can't sell the new ****, till you figure out what to do with the old ****.
 
Saladin4 said:
Lots of them are overweight white trash...pretty much trump's base as far as I can tell
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There you go. That's how you win hearts and minds. Tell the governed how you really feel about them.
 
There will indeed be some changes to economic patterns with the tariffs. As one commentator suggested, the tariffs will encourage local businesses to produce things now made in China.

But with many Chinese people losing their jobs because not as many things are exported to the USA, China could see enhanced social unrest. That would not be a good thing for China--or the rest of the world.
 
Chomsky said:
It's a fast moving thread, but I did catch bit & pieces in a quick read, However I think you're missing a point: Tariffs are blanket taxes on all Americans & all American entities. Mom & Pops will still have pay the same tariffs the big-boxes do. As you pointed-out, tariffs may stimulate domestic production, but it's not going to help Mom & Pop retailers.
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It will. Mom and pops are like speed boats. Walmarts are barges. When the time to change directions comes, mom and pops will not be left in the wake.
 
KevinKohler said:
Because Walmart already has millions of units bought and paid for from China, negotiated in a deal likely made 2 years previous. Can't sell the new ****, till you figure out what to do with the old ****.
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I think you underestimate how much product a single Walmart sells vs a mom and pop
 
KevinKohler said:
That seems to be exactly what's happening. I'm not sure if this makes me happy or sad...I was kinda hoping both of those parties would burn to the ground, and we could begging really voting on substance, rather than party affiliation.
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I can't say I disagree with the bolded. I was hoping to see the rise of a third party, but it seems Duverger's Law is holding out.

I used to be a Dem, and extremely active locally. But I now am pleased enough to see some of the renewal taking place within the party, enough so that I rejoined them recently - but that is mostly an anti-Trump move on my part.
 
KevinKohler said:
It will. Mom and pops are like speed boats. Walmarts are barges. When the time to change directions comes, mom and pops will not be left in the wake.
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You have that backwards. Just look at a the innovative technology employed in the Walmart inventory line and look at a mom and pop store that runs virtually the same as it did 30 years ago. Walmart and Target are always changing
 
HenryChinaski said:
https://money.cnn.com/2018/09/19/news/companies/walmart-tariffs-trump-china/index.html I can't take all of this winning. I do find it hysterical that Trump has convinced his base that he's the "working class president" for the little guy. :lol:
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It is Democratic Party policy that Americans in the private sector should lose their job and income, relying instead on government assistance, to allow them to pay less for cheap child slave labor imports with their government welfare money. After all, everyone wants to give up having any income if they can pay 7% less at WalMart.
 
KevinKohler said:
It will. Mom and pops are like speed boats. Walmarts are barges. When the time to change directions comes, mom and pops will not be left in the wake.
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I only see that with niche products and in services added though, as we currently see now.

Margins are margins, and consumers won't pay more for a product unless they are getting an added-on quality that they desire. Mom & Pops still will pay the same tariff, killing their margins and forcing them to raise prices to their customers.
 
trouble13 said:
Really does not matter how much something costs if you don't have a job.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I467 using Tapatalk
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Do you think tariffs will create jobs? It's a tax paid by consumers when the tariff is on manufactured goods and a tax on manufacturers when it's on raw materials (steel and aluminum, for example).
Unemployment has been at a twenty-year low in the US but that might change now. Thing is, if unemployment does go up Trump will be pointing at everyone else in the world and his followers will just get even madder at whoever he points at.
 
KevinKohler said:
Let's be real...that's the source of income inequality. Pay has remained stagnant, while corporate margins are flying to the moon.

And yet, instead of attacking the company for increasing prices despite knowing that this has been going on since the 80s, and got a huge dose of speed in 2008, rather than simply settling back for a meager 300% increase for a few years...you're attacking Trump and his "trade war"?


Strange times.
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If we are going to be real, then we need to be real about all of it.

There is no doubt that we have a few very large companies out there that have a business model dependent on cheap offshore labor manufacturing products sold here using retail labor also in the lowest income quintile. There is no doubt that these business models, like Walmart or Target or others, created for themselves C level executive pay structures that are off the chart.

Here is the issue and it boils down to economic behavior.

You are already admitting that it took time to get to this point, in this case opening up China several decades back to the point we are at now. And with that came a few consequences, in this case who is harmed first by tariffs. What we know is these giant organizations have enough pull in the market place to increase prices as their costs increase. We also know that it is extremely unlikely that higher costs because of these tariffs will be absorbed by margins.

So what that really means is the consumer sees the impact first, and in the case of these large retail chains that means the lowest income quintiles end up most vulnerable to Trump's actions.

In this case Walmart is specifically telling Trump what they will do because of these tariffs, and that is raise prices. Because of market share conditions and whom primarily frequents these shops it puts the consumer into a position of buying less of those products because of higher prices or dealing with the price increases by consumption at a smaller level. Either way, what is not happening is Walmart telling Trump margins are harmed. Demand has not really changed for these products even with aggregate shifts in the price outcome, mainly because we are not talking about strict market economics here. Demand might see that eventual shift as well but we are talking about products solidly in the basket of common goods purchased. Small business might be able to respond, the question is when and how much do they absorb in that opportunity.

It took time to develop an economic model dependent on cheap offshore labor, going with tariffs drops a bomb on that model. We know, not suspect... know, when that happens wealth ends up protected first and the lowest income quintile is harmed the fastest. And we are proving that now.

So of course we are critical of Trump, the trade war is that bomb that causes more immediate changes in behavior. In this case, the lowest income quintile... a group Republicans love to not give a **** about until they need to employ them, jail them, or lie to them to obtain a vote from them.
 
apdst said:
You predicted tariffs? Link us to that post.
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Predicted is too strong a word. Read that Trump wanted tariffs is more accurate

Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump threatened on Wednesday to slap tariffs on Chinese products to show Beijing that the U.S. is “not playing games anymore” when it comes to leveling the field on trade.

Addressing a rally in Tampa, Trump said that if he was elected in November, he would instruct the U.S. trade representative to bring cases against China both in the U.S. and at the World Trade Organization.

Tariffs would be necessary in some cases “because they have to understand that we’re not playing games anymore,” he added. Trump had previously pledged a 45% tariff on Chinese goods.
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From Aug 2016

Donald Trump Threatens to Slap Tariffs on Products Made in China | Fortune
 
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