[W:914,1223] Robert Mueller's report is out

[Saladin4]

Keywords... Trump campaign did not conspire or coordinate with the Russian government in its election interference activities. :usflag2:

You're celebrating, right? Doing the happy dance? :2dancing::ind: Good day for our country, right?

Key word:...He is NOT exonerated......Keep up the Bootlicking....It is all you have

 

[trixare4kids]

I don't think he's off the hook at all.

You may see it as minutia. It isn't. I know you want to bury it, but you can't. This report is actually pretty damning to Trump and shows some serious corruption. The court of public opinion is the judge on polling day. Hillary Clinton can tell you that too.

Bottom line, like Clinton, he was legally cleared.
Clinton didn't win because she got lazy. Even when the anti-Hillary people kept it alive, that is the reason she lost the election. She was told Trump would lose, and she actually believed her own press.
M/O, there is nobody who can beat Trump now... Keeping this alive with hurt the left.

 

[ettoremathedi]

you can't be serious.you mean the millionaire bernie sanders with 3 residences.
Who gave just a hair over 3 % of his income last year to charity.compared to president
trump who gave around 20 %.
Same thing with this beto o'dourke creep.gave way under 1 % to charity.

what? Trump gave 20% of his income to charity? :lol:

 

[Keridan]

Looking through this thread I see a whole lot of people quoting big sections of various pages - bear in mind "Fair Use" limits what can be posted - and describing the various bits of corrupt behavior they describe.

But then I see a whole lot of other people running dishonest victory laps, making sure to avoid the quoted sections at all cost, generally just trolling anyone who is trying to discuss it, and if they do a little of that it's to proclaim Trump's complete innocence on all fronts (not the report says or supports). I don't think those are the kind of people worth worrying about. The only way one could reach the desperation conclusion is if one is starting from the position that Trump is completely innocent and therefore there is nothing in the report to discuss, full stop. So, I suspect someone who the Dems need in 2020 and whose support is worth aiming for is not going to look at this ****storm and conclude the people who discussed the report are being desperate. Those that do are almost certainly in the second category.

As for impeachment, I think you'll find most people are nothing that Trump was never going to be convicted on articles of impeachment, but if this was the 90s he would at least have to answer such charges. Thus far, it sounds like Trump did a whole lot more than Clinton did to cover up the BJ and interfere in the civil suits. There were a few here insisting on impeachment even before the report. I recall one person announcing that Mueller was a "traitor". But those are a small minority.

Bear in mind, each candidate in the main 2020 election was the most unfavored of their party for several decades before, and even then Hillary got the popular vote. Her loss was ultimately down mainly to strategic incompetence (failure to campaign in a few key states or even coordinate with a ground operation), despite the huge contribution of her unlikability. They do have to play their cards right. But.....but not in minimizing the report.

I get where you are coming from. I'm not sure you see what I'm saying. I'm seeing victory laps on both sides. I'm seeing multiple quotes (here and in OP EDs) where it says almost the opposite and claiming "There is your proof right there! He's so guilty! We were right all along!" Then making a great effort to mock those who read it otherwise.

I'm not saying minimize the report, but use it more wisely. There is plenty in there to put shade on the administration, but SO much has been dumped into this thing that anything short of indictments of the first family is not going to be considered a real win. Every single part I've read (and it's too long for me to read in full right now) has qualified any statement that suggests guilt and seems to make a real effort to make allusions to it without committing. It's becoming a win for Trump supporters because they said it was an attack on him that failed to make the kill and that's what these early discussions are looking like. It needs to be painted and used better.

You talk about strategic errors in 2016 (I assume that's what you meant, not 2020). I actually agree. The problem is I'm seeing the corrections as going all the wrong direction. Chasing off the moderates on the assumption they will go far left rather than vote for Trump. Just assuming he can't win and running farther left to try and take advantage. Courting moderates and seeming like it's measured and they have nothing to worry about would go a lot farther.

 

[Obscurity]

Well color me wrong, but I am proud to be an American today.

How can you be proud? A foreign entity succeeded in a completely tragic and absurd way in influencing the election through a well coordinated attack on our electoral process, and big tech companies are culpable.

In addition, the report clearly displays what a ****ing idiot Trump truly is, ordering people around to break the law. Do you recall the Cohen hearing, where Cohen clearly stated Trump directed him to break the law? Any doubt about that is out the window now that the report has dropped and shows clearly the President is an uneducated fething moron.

In finality, it shows how derelict relations have become, when a president can literally direct a swathe of the electorate to ignore and slander a report that was drawn up for completely different reasons. Admit it. Before this report dropped you were convinced Trump was vindicated. You were convinced he was innocent. Just like rabid leftists were convinced he was guilty.

At the end of the day, this is a SHAMEFUL day to be an American. Our president is directing people around him to break the law, and has done ABSOLUTELY nothing to prevent future meddling in our elections by foreign entities. To top it all off, the quid-pro-quo attitude of the president and his menagerie of elitist clowns with regard to russia.

It's not a good day to be an american, of any stripe.

 

[Slavister]

You can't be serious.You mean the Millionaire Bernie Sanders ... Who gave just a hair over 3 % of his income last year to Charity.Compared to President
Trump who gave around 20 %.
Same thing with this Beto O'Dourke creep.Gave way under 1 % to charity.

You mean compared to Trump who used charity to lower his taxes while his charity money (from both his and others donations) was used as his (and his family's) own personal checkbook... that one?

 

[apdst]

Why is she even part of this thread?

But...but...Benghaziiiiiii! :lamo

 

[Obscurity]

You can't be serious.You mean the Millionaire Bernie Sanders with 3 residences.
Who gave just a hair over 3 % of his income last year to Charity.Compared to President
Trump who gave around 20 %.
Same thing with this Beto O'Dourke creep.Gave way under 1 % to charity.

Sanders is a millionaire who has had the same consistent pro worker message and voting record his entire life.

Trump is a billionaire whos POLICIES do not benefit workers.

I care about policies. Personality contests are for those with weak stomachs and small balls.

 

[Saladin4]

How can you be proud? A foreign entity succeeded in a completely tragic and absurd way in influencing the election through a well coordinated attack on our electoral process, and big tech companies are culpable.

In addition, the report clearly displays what a ****ing idiot Trump truly is, ordering people around to break the law. Do you recall the Cohen hearing, where Cohen clearly stated Trump directed him to break the law? Any doubt about that is out the window now that the report has dropped and shows clearly the President is an uneducated fething moron.

In finality, it shows how derelict relations have become, when a president can literally direct a swathe of the electorate to ignore and slander a report that was drawn up for completely different reasons. Admit it. Before this report dropped you were convinced Trump was vindicated. You were convinced he was innocent. Just like rabid leftists were convinced he was guilty.

At the end of the day, this is a SHAMEFUL day to be an American. Our president is directing people around him to break the law, and has done ABSOLUTELY nothing to prevent future meddling in our elections by foreign entities. To top it all off, the quid-pro-quo attitude of the president and his menagerie of elitist clowns with regard to russia.

It's not a good day to be an american, of any stripe.

For the angry white people that support trump, they'll claim it is a good day for their cult leader...But even they know, it is not

 

[apdst]

You clearly cannot read. I said BEFORE the report, and clearly I meant before he was president.

And Mueller didn't uncover that?

 

[Geoist]

You know nothing about "most of the people who voted for Trump".

Most people in my direct and extended family voted for Trump, so I know from personal experience what I am talking about.

 

[Chomsky]

I am about 2/3rd of the way though this now as a few things are becoming clear.

Mueller was very careful on dealing with the account of Collusion and Conspiracy. He did go so far as to say that "(they) did not find that the Trump campaign or anyone associated with it conspired" with Russia to influence the outcome of the 2016 Campaign, it left open a lack of conclusion on the idea of collusion in terms of trying to cover up other crimes. The one thing that Trump lawyers did well was keep him away from Mueller in a direct interview, that the written answers were "inadequate."

At the same time the report does nullify something Trump supporters have been adamant about for years, Russia actively tried to influence the 2016 campaign with false narrative social media campaigns even if they were not successful in actually changing a vote via hacking.

Worse it confirms Trump expected to benefit from the information received, and Russia expected to be better off with Trump in office over Hillary (business dealings included.)

What is damning is Trump expected his efforts to obtain information on Hillary during 2016 as meaningful to his efforts, and the report definitely suggests Trump Jr. is a moron. "Willfully violated the law" regarding Trump Jr, meaning aligned with previous Attorney General dealings with intention and expectation (think Hillary and the email server fiasco.) The report suggests Trump Jr. might not have realized what he was doing or intended to do (ref to emails and texts gathered.)

Collusion then was left up to that nebulous explanation that suggests not enough intent but not a total lack of either.

"Unable to conclude no criminal conduct occurred" in terms of Obstruction of Justice was also the bit about "while this report does not conclude that the President committed a crime, it also does not exonerate him." This is more entertaining, Mueller concluded that because members of Trump's Administration did not do what he wanted he was not quite guilty of that crime. Basically that Trump tried to get them to go along with not participating thus intent was there. But Trump was not so successful, those around him "refused" his instructions. So Mueller left open a qualifier about Congress, in that the House "has the ability" (legal means) to find that the President did obstruct justice (meaning start impeachment in the House and let it play out in the Senate.)

A significant explanation in the report suggested that Mueller and team spent a reasonable time considering what they call the "obstructive act" standard. The report does say that Trump "repeatedly" and "intentionally" reached out the Intelligence Agencies looking for anything about the Investigation, and further repeatedly asked to have the "investigation stopped" (presumably on his authority alone directing either Coats or Comey do make it happen.) The report also shows, rather conclusively, that Trump thought the Investigation would "damage him personally" and make worse the question of the "legitimacy" of his Presidency. It even goes so far as to illustrate that Trump was concerned about Obstruction of Justice all along. And his calls to McGhan were very ill advised.

The point being "intent" was found far more than not when it came to what Trump was trying to do about this investigation.

There really was a spider web of questionable activity and shady dealings throughout the campaign season, well into Trump's Presidency, into late 2017. It does conclude that Trump could be found of doing just enough to have articles of Impeachment drawn up in the House on the point of Obstruction of Justice.

The report tells me the question of legality and next steps is on Congress, it was never on Mueller to definitively say prosecute or not. BuConcerning t regardless of the outcome in Congress, "total exoneration" is epic garbage and Trump really is the piece of **** we assumed him to be.

The report itself is far more than the "nothing burger" the right is pimping.

*BUT,* there is another huge problem. By these standards and applicability of the very laws referenced, Hillary should be facing some other legal outcome herself for the nonsense she pulled.

Thanks for this excellent post! :thumbs:

From my current understanding, I believe your thorough synopsis is right on the money.

Concerning obstruction, I still am blown away that when we take all the obstruction attempts in totality, how can it not be obstruction? In addition, as Trump attempts and fails to obstruct the investigation, how can it not be conspiracy to obstruct? Additionally, there may be state charges possible.

And yes, as with yourself I believe Trump suffers legal exposure after his time in office. Specifically, I'm thinking with SDNY in the Cohen-Daniels matter, along with possibly improprieties in his and his organization's business dealings, including the Inauguration Committee.

 

[Conservative]

So you are denying these other legal actions exist?

I have no idea nor do I care

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

 

[apdst]

I don't have to defend her. No indictments, no crimes. She was cleared by the FBI and the DOJ, and according to one of your fellow Trump fans, they know more than we do.

Was Clinton exonerated?

 

[foolardi]

Yes, Wallace said this, (he is a never-Trumper after all), but how does this change my point above? Think about it before replying.

Far cry from an Eric Holder who publically bragged how he was " still the President's wingman ".
Holder being THE Only active cabinet member in U.S. history to be found guilty of Contempt.

 

[Obscurity]

And Mueller didn't uncover that?

Mueller didn't have to uncover that. It was uncovered before he was president. Mueller's report was about Russian interference. Get with the ****ing times and stop playing dumb.

 

[ettoremathedi]

How can you be proud? A foreign entity succeeded in a completely tragic and absurd way in influencing the election through a well coordinated attack on our electoral process, and big tech companies are culpable.

In addition, the report clearly displays what a ****ing idiot Trump truly is, ordering people around to break the law. Do you recall the Cohen hearing, where Cohen clearly stated Trump directed him to break the law? Any doubt about that is out the window now that the report has dropped and shows clearly the President is an uneducated fething moron.

In finality, it shows how derelict relations have become, when a president can literally direct a swathe of the electorate to ignore and slander a report that was drawn up for completely different reasons. Admit it. Before this report dropped you were convinced Trump was vindicated. You were convinced he was innocent. Just like rabid leftists were convinced he was guilty.

At the end of the day, this is a SHAMEFUL day to be an American. Our president is directing people around him to break the law, and has done ABSOLUTELY nothing to prevent future meddling in our elections by foreign entities. To top it all off, the quid-pro-quo attitude of the president and his menagerie of elitist clowns with regard to russia.

It's not a good day to be an american, of any stripe.

Just imagine if there was a report showing that Obama (or Bill Clinton) DIRECTED multiple people to obstruct justice and commit high crimes but because those people refused to do it/resigned before obeying him, now it's perfectly fine! That's the new standard for POTUS!

I'm sure they'd be just fine

 

[Geoist]

No need to fret. We'll have a weenie liberal in office sooner or later to get us back on tract of pandering to illegals and letting hairy 40 year old men into the women's bathroom.

Lol, that is all you cons have: FEAR.

 

[apdst]

Nope. I never defended Hillary. That's another problem with partisans. They have no idea how to deal with actual integrity, so they just have to make assumptions, drive by posts, and completely ignore the point of an argument.

lol

Was she exonerated?

 

[Saladin4]

I have no idea nor do I care

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

I have No idea...Pretty much the mantra of the trump bootlicker

 

[Obscurity]

For the angry white people that support trump, they'll claim it is a good day for their cult leader...But even they know, it is not

Spare me the identity politics. I have no stomach for it and it muddles the conversation. I don't give a **** what color your skin is.

 

[apdst]

Mueller didn't have to uncover that. It was uncovered before he was president. Mueller's report was about Russian interference. Get with the ****ing times and stop playing dumb.

Why no charges?

 

[Keridan]

And because some of us react on this thread to how this is currently being played, as you have said above, just wrongly.... we are personally disparaged for supporting a president who has been cleared of wrong-doing. This is a good day for our country, but we're the ones who are being told we are wrong for showing happiness.

Well color me wrong, but I am proud to be an American today.

I see nothing wrong with your point of view. I don't share it because you know I'm not a fan of Trump, but I understand it. Trump supporters take a lot of flak, as if feeling the good outweighs the bad somehow makes them stupid. As you say, for 2 years, supporters have said this would end up much like this and been given grief all over. The investigation did not find collusion with Russia and the leader of our country.

I'd rather see Trump lose next election, but that doesn't mean I wanted him impeached or proven to be treasonous. There's a large gap between the two.

As I say, I definitely understand why you feel the way you do.

 

[Saladin4]

Was she exonerated?

Your slobbering what about what about Hillary won't save trump

 

[Obscurity]

Just imagine if there was a report showing that Obama (or Bill Clinton) DIRECTED multiple people to obstruct justice and commit high crimes but because those people refused to do it/resigned before obeying him, now it's perfectly fine! That's the new standard for POTUS!

I'm sure they'd be just fine

I have ZERO doubt in my mind if Obama was on record acting like a king ordering people around to break the law, the republicans would have -immediately- impeached him.