[W:585:651]]Doctor's Viewpoint on Being Transgender

[VanceMack]

Re: Doctor's Viewpoint on Being Transgender

It is not a statement of fact though since there is no research to show that they don't have genes that could show they are transgender or not. The most you could factually say is that no evidence shows that most transgender people have genetic abnormalities. You did not say this.

And no, we shouldn't since we don't know what, if any genes actually affect gender aspects of our personality (although there is some evidence of at least one). Not to mention, that would be an invasion of medical privacy. They shouldn't need to do that just because you and others cannot accept that they are different, and want to live their lives differently than you want them to.

It IS a statement of fact that we DO know the number per 100,000 diagnised with Turners. And no...we dont know the genetic makeup of transgenders and...shocking...you dont want to know because the whole genetic confusion argument you are offering is bull****. OF COURSE you dont want a genetic test as a standard to a MEDICAL procedure based on something you CLAIM is genetically influenced.

See ...this is what I was talking about earlier. People like you **** up those that are trans by disrespecting their 'choice'...their feelings...their societal right to believe in gender as fluid, something they have a right to choose and to be, for no other reason more than its what they believe. And so you drag in the intersex bull****. You drag in Turners. You drag in other known genetic defects and abnormalities to try to prove a point...but you dont even have the guts or strength of conviction to stand behind your argument.

Its why I so seldom bother reading anything you write.

 

[AGENT J]

Re: Doctor's Viewpoint on Being Transgender

so 126 posts in and so far nothing LMAO
another instantly failed OP

can ANYBODY support what the OP claims? so far theres nothing to support the OP, not one fact that makes what was said true....

fact remains

Transgender =/= delusional

please let us know when that fact changes and it can be proven otherwise, thanks

 

[roguenuke]

Re: Doctor's Viewpoint on Being Transgender

It IS a statement of fact that we DO know the number per 100,000 diagnised with Turners. And no...we dont know the genetic makeup of transgenders and...shocking...you dont want to know because the whole genetic confusion argument you are offering is bull****. OF COURSE you dont want a genetic test as a standard to a MEDICAL procedure based on something you CLAIM is genetically influenced.

See ...this is what I was talking about earlier. People like you **** up those that are trans by disrespecting their 'choice'...their feelings...their societal right to believe in gender as fluid, something they have a right to choose and to be, for no other reason more than its what they believe. And so you drag in the intersex bull****. You drag in Turners. You drag in other known genetic defects and abnormalities to try to prove a point...but you dont even have the guts or strength of conviction to stand behind your argument.

Its why I so seldom bother reading anything you write.

No, your statement said that the vast majority of transgenders were not genetically malformed, not simply that they did not have Turners, which is only one single intersexed condition possible.

And no, I didn't bring in specifically any of those. They were already apart of the discussion when I joined the thread.

I don't believe in violating other people's medical privacy for something that does not matter. I do not feel any need, like you and others seem to have, to verify someone has a genetic condition to live their life as they want to when it doesn't actually affect me or anyone else negatively for them to do that.

 

[CLAX1911]

Re: Doctor's Viewpoint on Being Transgender

Post #25 you said "variation is quite rare" in response to another poster bringing up that variation. You brought up how rare it is, as if that matters.

No, I dismissed it.

 

[roguenuke]

Re: Doctor's Viewpoint on Being Transgender

No, I dismissed it.

You brought up the rarity aspect, which was never mentioned by the other poster, as an attempt to dismiss the point being made. It was not a good attempt though, since they were rightfully pointing out that the "doctor" wrongly tried to say that sex chromosome combinations were binary. They aren't. That is a fact that they aren't. So it was an important aspect as to what made the doctor one (at least in one instance). The fact that those abnormalities are rare doesn't change the fact that they still do exist. They exist far more often than being transgender, which could also be caused by a genetic abnormality.

 

[Anarchon]

Re: Doctor's Viewpoint on Being Transgender

I only expect common respect.

You have no reason to expect respect. No one does. Nor should respect be common. Respect is a very strong word that implies reverence. It should be earned, and not given to anyone.

re·spect
rəˈspekt/Submit
noun
1.
a feeling of deep admiration for someone or something elicited by their abilities, qualities, or achievements.
"the director had a lot of respect for Douglas as an actor"
synonyms: esteem, regard, high opinion, admiration, reverence, deference, honor
"the respect due to a great artist"

 

[CLAX1911]

Re: Doctor's Viewpoint on Being Transgender

You brought up the rarity aspect,

in order to dismiss irrelevant off topic nonsense.

I still dismiss it.

I'm not interested in irrelevant nonsense I don't care if you are go ahead and talk up a storm with someone else I refuse.

 

[Renae]

Re: Doctor's Viewpoint on Being Transgender

That's just a stupid reading and interpretation of the words. Sorry, hoss...I cant own that.

Vance, you said that "she" needs to look in the mirror and realize HE is a man, and is lying to himself and others. That by accepting that reality, he will then find happiness.

Correct?

 

[Renae]

Re: Doctor's Viewpoint on Being Transgender

You have no reason to expect respect. No one does. Nor should respect be common. Respect is a very strong word that implies reverence. It should be earned, and not given to anyone.

re·spect
rəˈspekt/Submit
noun
1.
a feeling of deep admiration for someone or something elicited by their abilities, qualities, or achievements.
"the director had a lot of respect for Douglas as an actor"
synonyms: esteem, regard, high opinion, admiration, reverence, deference, honor
"the respect due to a great artist"

That's why I said common respect versus "I expect people to respect me".

Common courtesy and general respect are things we need to show every human, animal and being. It should not merely be something we choose to reserve for a select few who we feel deserve it. Deep, personal respect for another being is something that is earned over time. But, general respect should always be granted to everyone...even individuals who we may feel have lost our deep respect.

Showing general respect for others is considering their feelings, thoughts, opinions and beliefs before we act, react, speak or otherwise express ourselves. It is being aware of our own words, actions and expressions and how they may affect those around us. The best way to show general respect to others is to think about how we would feel if we were standing in their shoes.

https://gypsywolf.weebly.com/courtesy-and-respect.html

Perhaps you'd prefer the other way to say this. Common courtesy. (same diff in my book but I suppose that might not apply to all)

 

[Renae]

Re: Doctor's Viewpoint on Being Transgender

It IS a statement of fact that we DO know the number per 100,000 diagnised with Turners. And no...we dont know the genetic makeup of transgenders and...shocking...you dont want to know because the whole genetic confusion argument you are offering is bull****. OF COURSE you dont want a genetic test as a standard to a MEDICAL procedure based on something you CLAIM is genetically influenced.

See ...this is what I was talking about earlier. People like you **** up those that are trans by disrespecting their 'choice'...their feelings...their societal right to believe in gender as fluid, something they have a right to choose and to be, for no other reason more than its what they believe. And so you drag in the intersex bull****. You drag in Turners. You drag in other known genetic defects and abnormalities to try to prove a point...but you dont even have the guts or strength of conviction to stand behind your argument.

Its why I so seldom bother reading anything you write.

We do know that brain differences in Transgenders matches the preferred gender over the birth sex.

That Standford video I posted above discusses this truth.

 

[wellwisher]

Re: Doctor's Viewpoint on Being Transgender

Transgender is analogous to one of the many characters of Halloween, where people of all ages dress up as their fantasy character. The difference is the transgender, does not take off the costume when the holiday is over. He/she is more like the child that wears the costume year round.

A transgender style costume was not uncommon, at halloween, before this costume became a political position. It was a costume that had shock value. It was also a costume that could trick people and/or make them look foolish, if they reacted to the costume instead of the reality of the person.

I would trace the change from this being a conscious holiday fantasy, to a perpetual fantasy, to the internet and especially on things like Facebook. On the internet, people do not have to be honest with each other or with themselves. One is not face to face, reading body language. Peo can lie or acc self important and escape eye to eye censor.

On the internet, where fake news rules, it is all about perception and imagination, that cannot be formally investigated. Everyone knows this so everyone is part of the game. Before the internet, one would have to answer directly to others in an honest way, since face to face allows people to use their inner radar. Face to computer monitor allows one to fool themselves and others. This has made the brain less rational and has weakened contact with reality.

 

[VanceMack]

Re: Doctor's Viewpoint on Being Transgender

We do know that brain differences in Transgenders matches the preferred gender over the birth sex.

That Standford video I posted above discusses this truth.

No we dont. What we know is there are a lot of people desperately trying to find ways to make studies match their social agenda. If you dont think that is what happens, you know nothing about University research.

But what you are claiming...the 'truth' then...so you would agree that gender is in fact NOT a social construct, and that peoples gender is NOT selective but driven purely by their genetics? Great. So would you also agree that only those with genetic tests that CONFIRM their 'female' genes should be allowed to have gender reassignment surgery?

 

[VanceMack]

Re: Doctor's Viewpoint on Being Transgender

Vance, you said that "she" needs to look in the mirror and realize HE is a man, and is lying to himself and others. That by accepting that reality, he will then find happiness.

Correct?

Indeed. That IS correct. 100%. Because no matter how much Zoey try's to convince herself she is a woman, Bob Tur is still the first person that says hello to her in the morning. And Bob is unpretty. IN fact, Bob...really looks like Bob. Please dont make me post the pictures to illustrate the point. Even when Bob is Zoey, Zoey is...well...Bob.

And thats the point. Accept it. You are a genetic 'man'. For whatever reason, you feel or even truly believe you SHOULD have been born a woman, regardless of the fact that you lived most of your life as a man, married, I assume had children. But for whatever reason...reasons as indefinable as sexual attraction...you believe you are supposed to be a woman. Great starting point. Accept that. Theres LITERALLY nothing BUT positive from that. Love yourself as a person. What you do cosmetically to help the exterior more closely align with your slected gender...have a ball.

 

[Renae]

Re: Doctor's Viewpoint on Being Transgender

No we dont. What we know is there are a lot of people desperately trying to find ways to make studies match their social agenda. If you dont think that is what happens, you know nothing about University research.

But what you are claiming...the 'truth' then...so you would agree that gender is in fact NOT a social construct, and that peoples gender is NOT selective but driven purely by their genetics? Great. So would you also agree that only those with genetic tests that CONFIRM their 'female' genes should be allowed to have gender reassignment surgery?

No one said anything about genes. Do scroll up and watch the video. What they are finding is that there is a physical indicator showing that Trans people aren't delusional but are actually TRANSGENDER.

 

[Renae]

Re: Doctor's Viewpoint on Being Transgender

Indeed. That IS correct. 100%. Because no matter how much Zoey try's to convince herself she is a woman, Bob Tur is still the first person that says hello to her in the morning. And Bob is unpretty. IN fact, Bob...really looks like Bob. Please dont make me post the pictures to illustrate the point. Even when Bob is Zoey, Zoey is...well...Bob.

And thats the point. Accept it. You are a genetic 'man'. For whatever reason, you feel or even truly believe you SHOULD have been born a woman, regardless of the fact that you lived most of your life as a man, married, I assume had children. But for whatever reason...reasons as indefinable as sexual attraction...you believe you are supposed to be a woman. Great starting point. Accept that. Theres LITERALLY nothing BUT positive from that. Love yourself as a person. What you do cosmetically to help the exterior more closely align with your slected gender...have a ball.

Okay, well here's something for you.

You're wrong. Bob was a miserable SOB who looked in the mirror and saw a stranger, a false mask she had to wear to make hateful and intolerant people like yourself comfortable.

Zoey, is a happy woman, she looks in the mirror and sees herself, and no longer cares about people like you who choose to remain spiteful and ignorant of the issue and embraces her true self.


I know when I look in the mirror, I see Renae, not "Mr.Vicchio". I hated seeing him, I hated him. I hated that I feared people like YOU. I hated that people like YOU made me afraid to be myself.

See, I tried that whole "Love yourself" approach. It doesn't work. Maybe for some out there it might, but for many of us, it just makes us more miserable.

YOU have the problem, not Zoey, not me.

Your approach is uncaring, inconsiderate and rude. There is no love in your words, just hate and bigotry dressed in flowers. The sooner more people reject the approach you have, the better.

 

[Lethargic Aptitude]

Re: Doctor's Viewpoint on Being Transgender

This video will no doubt create tons of controversy but this is a doctor's view on being transgender, not that I agree or disagree with her.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2-e_wJthmk

Dr. Michelle Cretella, President of American College of Pediatricians is basing her so called professional opinion, on religious bias.

"Zanga, the ACP's founder, describes his organization as one with Judeo-Christian, traditional values that is open to pediatric medical professionals of all religions who hold true to the group's core beliefs: that life begins at conception; and that the traditional family unit, headed by an opposite-sex couple, poses far fewer risk factors in the adoption and raising of children." https://catholicexchange.com/pro-li...to-established-american-academy-of-pediatrics

The American College of Pediatricians is the less than 200 pediatricians, that broke from the 66,000-member American Academy of Pediatrics. Their big reason for breaking from the AAP is over their anti-LBTQ beliefs, not science. In other words this so called doctor is spreading a groups beliefs over actual science.

 

[Lethargic Aptitude]

Re: Doctor's Viewpoint on Being Transgender

Okay, well here's something for you.

You're wrong. Bob was a miserable SOB who looked in the mirror and saw a stranger, a false mask she had to wear to make hateful and intolerant people like yourself comfortable.

Zoey, is a happy woman, she looks in the mirror and sees herself, and no longer cares about people like you who choose to remain spiteful and ignorant of the issue and embraces her true self.


I know when I look in the mirror, I see Renae, not "Mr.Vicchio". I hated seeing him, I hated him. I hated that I feared people like YOU. I hated that people like YOU made me afraid to be myself.

See, I tried that whole "Love yourself" approach. It doesn't work. Maybe for some out there it might, but for many of us, it just makes us more miserable.

YOU have the problem, not Zoey, not me.

Your approach is uncaring, inconsiderate and rude. There is no love in your words, just hate and bigotry dressed in flowers. The sooner more people reject the approach you have, the better.

Here is the problem: You may believe anything that you want about yourself, but it is impossible for you to convince strangers that you are correct. When you walk through a public space the people there do not know your story, they only know what they see. Outside of rare cases most men who dress like women, look like men that dressed like women. And further there is the trying to act like a women. The attempts to change your voice for example, or mimicking female behaviors. Try as they might it still comes off as an act. Even if the act is perfect it is still an act. And everyone around knows its an, no matter how much they flatter you. In most peoples minds they reason it out upon meeting the person and noting that this seems to be a guy dressed and acting like a women (or the opposite).

What it boils down to is the huge lack of science to back up their beliefs. There is no transgender gene or any real indicator medically other than psychological evidence. People do indeed believe that they are the wrong sex, but you cannot force people to believe what you do. Of course it is ethical to accept what you believe as long as that belief is benign and does not affect other people in a negative way. But you need to come to terms that you have a belief and that those who do not agree with your belief, are not automatically ignorant or even spiteful.

Back in the 70's when I was a little kid I had long hair (because 70's) countless times I was mistaken for a little girl. I used to chalk that up to prejudices back then of males with long hair. I told myself that I didnt look like a little girl, they were just being assholes. I held that belief up until I was going through my Moms stuff after she died, I found these photos of a little girl. It took me a little bit of time to realize that it was me. They were not assholes they were just telling the truth of what they saw.

 

[VanceMack]

Re: Doctor's Viewpoint on Being Transgender

No one said anything about genes. Do scroll up and watch the video. What they are finding is that there is a physical indicator showing that Trans people aren't delusional but are actually TRANSGENDER.

Where did I say anything about 'Delusional'? The only delusion comes from people claiming they really ARE women, and not men that for whatever reason, really feel like they should be women.

 

[VanceMack]

Re: Doctor's Viewpoint on Being Transgender

Okay, well here's something for you.

You're wrong. Bob was a miserable SOB who looked in the mirror and saw a stranger, a false mask she had to wear to make hateful and intolerant people like yourself comfortable.

Zoey, is a happy woman, she looks in the mirror and sees herself, and no longer cares about people like you who choose to remain spiteful and ignorant of the issue and embraces her true self.


I know when I look in the mirror, I see Renae, not "Mr.Vicchio". I hated seeing him, I hated him. I hated that I feared people like YOU. I hated that people like YOU made me afraid to be myself.

See, I tried that whole "Love yourself" approach. It doesn't work. Maybe for some out there it might, but for many of us, it just makes us more miserable.

YOU have the problem, not Zoey, not me.

Your approach is uncaring, inconsiderate and rude. There is no love in your words, just hate and bigotry dressed in flowers. The sooner more people reject the approach you have, the better.

Zoey is not happy. Zoey is a rage-aholic that ****ing flipped when someone pointed out his lie and his genetics.

You cant 'try' to love yourself. You either do or you dont. The reason WHY people fail so often at loving themselves (all people...not specifically trans people) is that they 'try' rather than accepting themselves with all their perfect imperfections. Love is a choice.

As Yoda says...

THAT is why you fail.......

 

[Lord Tammerlain]

Re: Doctor's Viewpoint on Being Transgender

The most absurd thing I've ever heard there are two sexes. It's not just the a valid argument it is a biological factual argument.

I guess you're just science denier.

Hermaphrodites

YYX
XXY

Science says there are more than two genders and two sexes.

 

[CLAX1911]

Re: Doctor's Viewpoint on Being Transgender

Hermaphrodites

YYX
XXY

Science says there are more than two genders and two sexes.

No it doesn't.

What do you think the sexes are for?

 

[roguenuke]

Re: Doctor's Viewpoint on Being Transgender

Here is the problem: You may believe anything that you want about yourself, but it is impossible for you to convince strangers that you are correct. When you walk through a public space the people there do not know your story, they only know what they see. Outside of rare cases most men who dress like women, look like men that dressed like women. And further there is the trying to act like a women. The attempts to change your voice for example, or mimicking female behaviors. Try as they might it still comes off as an act. Even if the act is perfect it is still an act. And everyone around knows its an, no matter how much they flatter you. In most peoples minds they reason it out upon meeting the person and noting that this seems to be a guy dressed and acting like a women (or the opposite).

What it boils down to is the huge lack of science to back up their beliefs. There is no transgender gene or any real indicator medically other than psychological evidence. People do indeed believe that they are the wrong sex, but you cannot force people to believe what you do. Of course it is ethical to accept what you believe as long as that belief is benign and does not affect other people in a negative way. But you need to come to terms that you have a belief and that those who do not agree with your belief, are not automatically ignorant or even spiteful.

Back in the 70's when I was a little kid I had long hair (because 70's) countless times I was mistaken for a little girl. I used to chalk that up to prejudices back then of males with long hair. I told myself that I didnt look like a little girl, they were just being assholes. I held that belief up until I was going through my Moms stuff after she died, I found these photos of a little girl. It took me a little bit of time to realize that it was me. They were not assholes they were just telling the truth of what they saw.

This is stereotyping though. There are men who naturally walk, move like women and vice versa. There are women who sound as if they can be men, have low voices or middle voices. There is plenty of overlap. And a voice can be changed.

Hell, have you ever heard Kathleen Turner talk. She sounds like a man, hence why she was given the role as Chandler's father on Friends. I've been startled by a voice that sounded like a woman but really belonged to a man, a male Sailor in fact. So people need to learn how to not base their behaviors towards someone, how they treat someone, based off of their personal assumptions. Honest mistakes are fine, but if they are corrected, they need to accept that.

 

[Lethargic Aptitude]

Re: Doctor's Viewpoint on Being Transgender

This is stereotyping though. There are men who naturally walk, move like women and vice versa. There are women who sound as if they can be men, have low voices or middle voices. There is plenty of overlap. And a voice can be changed.

Hell, have you ever heard Kathleen Turner talk. She sounds like a man, hence why she was given the role as Chandler's father on Friends. I've been startled by a voice that sounded like a woman but really belonged to a man, a male Sailor in fact. So people need to learn how to not base their behaviors towards someone, how they treat someone, based off of their personal assumptions. Honest mistakes are fine, but if they are corrected, they need to accept that.

Again, when one walks into a room and see's another human being you have to make assumptions on outward appearances. That person may identify as whatever they like but the reality is that the outward appearance is impossible to ignore.

We can accept an explanation by the individual and respect their point of view. I have no arguments against an individuals choice to identify how ever they please. But there is no rational reason that I must accept that the man dressed in womens clothing is actually a real women. You can pretend to be a women or even believe that you are women, but the body that I see says otherwise. There is no slight or anything wrong with seeing what you see. At best you can accept that the person who looks like a guy wants to be thought of as a gal. In most cases you would need the person to explain their position since there exists many examples of people who's plumbing matches their gender identity, that chose to wear socially opposite clothing for whatever reason. There just isnt any real way to know how person identifies unless they tell you. And once they tell you, you will categorize them based on your own outlook and opinions. Right or wrong those opinions cannot be forced onto the other individual in either direction, that is to say if my opinions differ from yours, you need not accept my opinions, though you could tolerate them.

Personally I accept and respect however a person identifies them self. My opinion that, that person may look like a guy, even though they tell me they are a women does not change anything. It would be rude for me to tell them that, but I can think it without any harm as long as I do not treat them any differently than any other person there is no problem. I just cannot lie to myself and pretend that what I see isnt what I see. I mean a person is called transgender for a reason, there is no rational reason that I must pretend that they are not transgender, and asserting that one must accept that a person is a women rather than a transgender women seems a bit delusional. And much confusion could be avoided if transgender people used transgender in front of the gender that they identify with. Take Bruce Jenner for example, he now identifies as a transgender women and thus changed his name and wants to be referred to as a her. In person I would just avoid using words like him and her or whatever to not hurt him and respect his wishes. But no matter how much Jenner tries to convince everyone that he is now a her, the reality is that Jenner is transgender. The proper way to categorize Jenner is as a transgender women. A male that chose to be identified as female for personal reasons. Lets not insult peoples intelligence and pretend that transgenderism does not exist, either you are transgender or not. You cannot magically become the opposite sex, but you can identify as the opposite sex. You can have reconstructive surgery to look like the opposite sex but that is not going to magically make one the opposite sex either. Identity is the key to being transgender, someone who's gender identity matches their plumbing cannot be transgender. So it should be rational for me to identify transgender people as transgender. Rather than pretending that they are not transgender.

 

[RamFel]

Re: Doctor's Viewpoint on Being Transgender

This video will no doubt create tons of controversy but this is a doctor's view on being transgender, not that I agree or disagree with her.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2-e_wJthmk

Boy, has this lady doctor got it right. And it's what I've been saying all along. This discussion has me going around in circles the way people INSIST that they are really women in men's bodies. So I wanted to respond with this (since this is a trick the left loves to pull on us....

If you truly believe this and you INSIST on it, then please prove it. Take all the facts (xx, xy, mutilation, and everything else (including everything I forgot to mention) and make the best case you can EXCEPT a curse at me, insults, FUs, because experience has taught me that those things do not convince me. I want proof.

OH, another one is anything to do with churches. Some of you out there try to tell those of us who know, that they have the churches on their side. I won't buy it.

Thanks
RamFel

 

[RamFel]

Re: Doctor's Viewpoint on Being Transgender

This video will no doubt create tons of controversy but this is a doctor's view on being transgender, not that I agree or disagree with her.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2-e_wJthmk

To Debate Challenger,

You put this out then you backed away to observe, but if I had been you, I would have taken a stand. This world is crazy and everyone needs to be put in their place and told the truth. But on the other hand, I can understand your decision because the crazies do push back very hard. Thanks for posting.