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[W:585:651]]Doctor's Viewpoint on Being Transgender

Re: Doctor's Viewpoint on Being Transgender

roguenuke said:
Most people with genetic chromosome disorders live their whole lives or a good portion of their lives never knowing they have such a condition. It isn't something that causes issues or is necessarily identifiable. Especially things like chimerism.

And they are less rare (as a whole) than being transgender, by almost twice the amount of occurrence within the population as a whole.
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Chimerism is where a person has two distinct but complete genomes. It is not a sexual chromosome disorder. People with sexual chromosome disorders do typically have traits that make it apparent, if they even live to be born.
 
Re: Doctor's Viewpoint on Being Transgender

CLAX1911 said:
its still irrelevant.

start another thread and talk about it.

that's exactly how synonyms work.

8
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This thread is perfect since you were the one who brought up that those conditions are rare, but failed to also note that they are not as rare as transgenderism is. If they are acceptable because of their rareness, then it doesn't make sense to reject being transgender, since it is more rare.

And no, synonyms do not work that way. There are many words that are synonyms that you cannot substitute for each other in every situation.

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/some-scientific-journals-are-still-confusing-sex-and-gender-180949424/

In fact, the definitions are clearly distinguished as showing two different, although related, concepts.

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/sex

"either the male or female division of a species, especially as differentiated with reference to the reproductive functions."

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/gender?s=t

"either the male or female division of a species, especially as differentiated by social and cultural roles and behavior:"

They are different words. Just like some synonyms for "racism" are prejudice, discrimination, unfairness, bias, yet those things are not always interchangeable.

https://www.thesaurus.com/browse/racism
 
Re: Doctor's Viewpoint on Being Transgender

Anarchon said:
Chimerism is where a person has two distinct but complete genomes. It is not a sexual chromosome disorder. People with sexual chromosome disorders do typically have traits that make it apparent, if they even live to be born.
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They all can be considered intersexed and not have DNA that matches their genitalia and/or personal gender identity.
 
Re: Doctor's Viewpoint on Being Transgender

roguenuke said:
There is still an opposite version. That would mean that they could be added to the total when it comes to those who are intersexed, making the number far more than those who are transgender.
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Why is that relevant, even if it were accepted as true?
 
Re: Doctor's Viewpoint on Being Transgender

Anarchon said:
Why is that relevant, even if it were accepted as true?
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Why else even bring up the fact that such things are rare when discussing how to consider those who do not match the binary of "XX" or "XY" throughout their body? That is proven to not be the case by 1% of the population having some sort of issue with their DNA that means their chromosomes do not all match their physical presentation or the binary. So if chromosomes do not determine our actual sex, nor can physical organs/makeup, then there is no reason that thoughts and feelings on it should not also play a role.
 
Re: Doctor's Viewpoint on Being Transgender

roguenuke said:
Technically, we are all mutants. Human fetuses go through an average of 150-250 genetic mutations during gestation. Even identical twins are not actually completely identical.
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I'd be surprised if it weren't more than that, given that we have around 20-25k genes in a cell, and around 37.2 trillion cells in a body, most of which replicate throughout life, even moreso during gestation. The relevant point is if those mutations are propagated or not. Most of the errors just die off because there are protections against them (i.e. Ras proteins, tumor suppressors, etc.).

In people with sexual chromosome disorders, the mutations typically have propagated and been accepted as part of their genome in all the cells in their body. I suspect that's not the case with the mutations you're referring to.
 
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Re: Doctor's Viewpoint on Being Transgender

...funny how edited the video is BUT ill be sticking with facts and the vast majority of the medical science community

transgender =/= delusion


facts win and bigotry and lies fail again
 
Re: Doctor's Viewpoint on Being Transgender

roguenuke said:
Why else even bring up the fact that such things are rare when discussing how to consider those who do not match the binary of "XX" or "XY" throughout their body? That is proven to not be the case by 1% of the population having some sort of issue with their DNA that means their chromosomes do not all match their physical presentation or the binary. So if chromosomes do not determine our actual sex, nor can physical organs/makeup, then there is no reason that thoughts and feelings on it should not also play a role.
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The rarity of sexual chromosome disorders speaks to the fact that they are errors, and as such are exceptions to the binary rule. That doesn't discount the fact that gender/sex is binary. It only says that if someone isn't binary, they are an error. The rarity of transgenderism isn't relevant because it isn't a sexual chromosome disorder.
 
Re: Doctor's Viewpoint on Being Transgender

Anarchon said:
The rarity of sexual chromosome disorders speaks to the fact that they are errors, and as such are exceptions to the binary rule. That doesn't discount the fact that gender/sex is binary. It only says that if someone isn't binary, they are an error. The rarity of transgenderism isn't relevant because it isn't a sexual chromosome disorder.
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Being transgender is more rare though. And since that would be part of a personality, which also can be very much affected by our chromosomes, then there is no reason not to compare the two. Not to mention, due to the limited nature and use of DNA testing for such things (even the 23&Me thing wouldn't pick up chimerism unless the test came back showing that the person had the opposite DNA than they thought), then we really don't know how much of an overlap there is. Nor does anyone except the person and possibly their doctor even have a right to know.
 
Re: Doctor's Viewpoint on Being Transgender

Anarchon said:
I'd be surprised if it weren't more than that, given that we have around 20-25k genes in a cell, and around 37.2 trillion cells in a body, most of which replicate throughout life, even moreso during gestation. The relevant point is if those mutations are propagated or not. Most of the errors just die off because there are protections against them (i.e. Ras proteins, tumor suppressors, etc.).

In people with sexual chromosome disorders, the mutations typically have propagated and been accepted as part of their genome in all the cells in their body. I suspect that's not the case with the mutations you're referring to.
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And you cannot show that being transgender is not carried on one or more chromosomes, as a disorder. Personality does have a genetics factor. The only question is how much of our personality is affected by genetics, not whether the factor is present.
 
Re: Doctor's Viewpoint on Being Transgender

Renae said:
You want people to suffer because you think that's a good thing. Your words hoss.
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That's just a stupid reading and interpretation of the words. Sorry, hoss...I cant own that.
 
Re: Doctor's Viewpoint on Being Transgender

CLAX1911 said:
what conditions?
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The variations in sex chromosomes, which would cause someone to be considered "intersexed", which you mentioned as being "quite rare".
 
Re: Doctor's Viewpoint on Being Transgender

spud_meister said:
Sex is biological, gender is how we perceive sex. Gender is the roles and rules and stereotypes we build around sex. Trans people can't change their sex, so they do their best to change their gender.



Up to them? How do you think they would decide? A person with Turner syndrome is physiologically female, they have ovaries and a vagina and everything. Do you think one could decide they want to identify as male simply based on sex chromosome abnormalities, irrespective of physiology?
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Science describes Turners as a genetic defect, mistake, or abnormality. Regardless of the reaction TO the disorder, its a lousy straw to grasp in the debate. Its no different than trying normalize epilepsy or any other physical abnormality and it CERTAINLY doesnt relate to the gender debate where the extensively vast majority of individuals expressing trans ideation are NOT genetically malformed.
 
Re: Doctor's Viewpoint on Being Transgender

VanceMack said:
Science describes Turners as a genetic defect, mistake, or abnormality. Regardless of the reaction TO the disorder, its a lousy straw to grasp in the debate. Its no different than trying normalize epilepsy or any other physical abnormality and it CERTAINLY doesnt relate to the gender debate where the extensively vast majority of individuals expressing trans ideation are NOT genetically malformed.
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How do you know that? Have you personally seen their DNA tests? Have you personally tested every possibility of genetic misalignment or malformity possible to effect such things, including gender identity that could be part of personality that is affected by genetic makeup?
 
Re: Doctor's Viewpoint on Being Transgender

roguenuke said:
How do you know that? Have you personally seen their DNA tests? Have you personally tested every possibility of genetic misalignment or malformity possible to effect such things, including gender identity that could be part of personality that is affected by genetic makeup?
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Ridiculous arguments dont help your cause.
 
Re: Doctor's Viewpoint on Being Transgender

VanceMack said:
Ridiculous arguments dont help your cause.
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You tried to make a statement of fact, that the majority of transgender do not have any sort of genetic abnormality leading to their being transgender. You do not know that. They haven't even really done effective research in that, since a) most transgenders are not genetically tested at all, b) it would require genetic samples from every possible different type of cell in a person's body to rule out chimerism, and c) we don't know what, if any, genes actually affect the gender aspect of our personality. If you don't want to be called out on such a comment, maybe you should ensure that it is accurate first.
 
Re: Doctor's Viewpoint on Being Transgender

roguenuke said:
You tried to make a statement of fact, that the majority of transgender do not have any sort of genetic abnormality leading to their being transgender. You do not know that. They haven't even really done effective research in that, since a) most transgenders are not genetically tested at all, b) it would require genetic samples from every possible different type of cell in a person's body to rule out chimerism, and c) we don't know what, if any, genes actually affect the gender aspect of our personality. If you don't want to be called out on such a comment, maybe you should ensure that it is accurate first.
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I didnt try...I DID make a statement of fact.

Lets make it simple and come to a healthy agreement. Shall we agree that ANYONE that seeks to undergo gender reassignment surgery should be genetically tested and if their genetic makeup is found to be 'normal' male or 'normal' female, their procedure shall be denied...even from voluntary assignment.

Agreed?
 
Re: Doctor's Viewpoint on Being Transgender

CLAX1911 said:
They are quite rare and they are beside the topic.
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Referencing inter-sexed genetic abnormalities is no different than those defending abortion attempting to use the instances of rape or incest as a defense of abortion (and this is NOT an abortion argument-please...no one take it that direction). Instances of rape and or incest (whole very real) in the total number of abortion cases is statistically insignificant...it makes for an emotional diversion.

Heres the conundrum...is the claim of trans ideation genetic or is gender TRULY a flexible social construct-an 'idea' that can be determined and decided individually at will?

Its not one box they paint themselves into its a bunch of them.
 
Re: Doctor's Viewpoint on Being Transgender

VanceMack said:
I didnt try...I DID make a statement of fact.

Lets make it simple and come to a healthy agreement. Shall we agree that ANYONE that seeks to undergo gender reassignment surgery should be genetically tested and if their genetic makeup is found to be 'normal' male or 'normal' female, their procedure shall be denied...even from voluntary assignment.

Agreed?
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It is not a statement of fact though since there is no research to show that they don't have genes that could show they are transgender or not. The most you could factually say is that no evidence shows that most transgender people have genetic abnormalities. You did not say this.

And no, we shouldn't since we don't know what, if any genes actually affect gender aspects of our personality (although there is some evidence of at least one). Not to mention, that would be an invasion of medical privacy. They shouldn't need to do that just because you and others cannot accept that they are different, and want to live their lives differently than you want them to.
 
Re: Doctor's Viewpoint on Being Transgender

Anarchon said:
You can call yourself whatever you like. The problems come when you make demands as to what others must call you.
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I only expect common respect.
 
Re: Doctor's Viewpoint on Being Transgender

CLAX1911 said:
In which post?
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Post #25 you said "variation is quite rare" in response to another poster bringing up that variation. You brought up how rare it is, as if that matters.
 
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