[W:344:1201]License to Kill

[AGENT J]

Re: [W:344]License to Kill

What you advocate is the most elitist possible act.

aaaaaand another delisious dodge LMAO the questions just keep piling up exposing your false clais over an dover

a.) Who here is advocating its a right to kill born babies?
b.) who claimed killing a born baby is not murder?
c.) what am "i" factually advocating?

let us know when you can answer, thanks!

 

[Bodi]

Re: [W:344]License to Kill

The moment it leaves the woman's body and is alive it is murder.

No it is not.

First, it is not murder as murder is a legal term applied to a person and a fetus is not a person.

Second, if the fetus can not survive on its own outside the womb then it is also not murder.

And the process of aborting the baby inside the woman is like the captain of the airliner coming into the passenger cabin and killing one of the passengers.

Wrong again... it is nothing like that as each person in the plane is an individual person not connected to the plane or dependent on the plane for survival.

 

[babalu]

Re: [W:344]License to Kill

aaaaaand another delisious dodge LMAO the questions just keep piling up exposing your false clais over an dover

a.) Who here is advocating its a right to kill born babies?
b.) who claimed killing a born baby is not murder?
c.) what am "i" factually advocating?

let us know when you can answer, thanks!

You deny the rights of the embryonic baby because you are bigger and more capable. You can try to legitimize bullying, but it is clear that ya'll only get away with murdering babies because there are so many who fail to be responsible about their sexuality and others because it is so thrilling to be able to end lives without consequence.

There are some accounts I have heard of random killers doing it to see what it would feel like.

 

[AGENT J]

Re: [W:344]License to Kill

1.) You deny the rights of the embryonic baby because you are bigger and more capable.
2.) You can try to legitimize bullying, but it is clear that ya'll only get away with murdering babies because there are so many who fail to be responsible about their sexuality and others because it is so thrilling to be able to end lives without consequence.
3.)There are some accounts I have heard of random killers doing it to see what it would feel like.

aaaaaand more dodging

1.) I do? how do "i" do that? what factual rights are you referring too?
2.) murder? who is legitimizing murder?
3.) cool meaningless story

so ill ask you again and ill add the new question


a.) Who here is advocating its a right to kill born babies?
b.) who claimed killing a born baby is not murder?
c.) what am "i" factually advocating?
d.) who here is legitimizing murder?
e.) what factual rights of the rights of the embryonic baby are you referring too?


let us know when you can answer, thanks!

 

[Angel]

Re: [W:344]License to Kill

You have not proven your claim that abortion is immoral. It is immoral to YOU and you are free to not abort if you find yourself pregnant and don't want to be.

On the contrary, I believe I've acquitted myself of my burden of proof more than adequately to the satisfaction of any reasonable person. The morality I've put forward is grounded in evolutionary biology and issues in the moral principle that taking a human life for any other reason than defense of human life is immoral. That's irrefutable except by the standards of a-morality. That talking-point pro0choices refuse to acknowledge the reasonableness of my view is not surprising since this political camp is not interested in morality at all.

To wit:

Morality and Moral Judgmentt

Morality is Objective
Moral Judgment is Subjective

Morality is biologically grounded in the survival instinct
Life is the fundamental value of morality

The value of Life informs the emotions of Fear and Disgust, Sympathy and Empathy
Emotions are objective measurable states of being

Feeling is the consciousness of emotion
With feeling subjectivity enters moral dynamics

Moral judgment (subjective) derives from Feeling (subjective),

Feeling from Emotion (objective),

Emotion from the Survival Instinct (objective)

The Survival Instinct from the Value of Life (hardwired)


PostScript
Moral Intuition is a form of Moral Judgment
​

 

[Angel]

Re: [W:344]License to Kill

The Key Exchange​

The Woman does not have the right to kill the baby once it leaves her body any more than an airline captain has the right to kill his or her passengers after having carried them awhile and feeding them.

I waited a thousand posts for your post! Yes, that is the point no one else has thought to raise. I was not surprised that the talking-point pro-choicers did not think to raise this question, but that no pro-lifer raised it was surprising.

Here's the way I see it. Morality and law are distinguishable, of course. And law is not always on the side of morality: 1850s law on slave ownership is the locus classicus. In the case of abortion law, once again law and morality do not coincide. The law on abortion condones an immoral act, the taking of a human life. There are political reasons for this, but my thesis is not concerned with politics. Or law for that matter. My thesis is concerned only with the morality of the case, and I've made my argument throughout this thread for the immorality of taking human life except to defend human life, and on that basis abortion except to save the life of the pregnant woman is immoral.

Nevertheless, my moral argument recognizes the freedom of the moral agent in all cases to choose to commit an immoral act. For moral freedom cannot be abridged or constrained without abandoning morality altogether. So the woman has the moral freedom to choose to have an abortion though her life is not at risk, but in so choosing chooses to commit an immoral act. The law does not punish this immoral act.

The airline pilot of your example is also morally free to kill his passengers -- anyone is morally free to kill anyone else in fact -- but the law against homicide will punish him for his immoral action.

What it is!​

 

[babalu]

Re: [W:344]License to Kill

The Key Exchange





What it is!​

Thanks for your well thought out response.

I am not able to get that deep on this matter, at least not this early in the morning.

I consciously decided to end my relationships with two people I have known.

A buddy from childhood who moved to a different state and decades later moved back home and he shared with me that when he was arrested for something, the State Trooper was marching him to a secluded spot to kill him and somehow, he turned the tables and killed the Trooper. He was acquitted and after he told me the story, I had no further interest in his acquaintanceship.

And a woman I was very involved with at one time had a series of abortions (none of them mine) and I grew increasingly unable to see or speak to her without thinking badly of her, so I have chosen never to see or speak to her again.

To me, they were roughly the same.

 

[year2late]

Re: [W:344]License to Kill

What you advocate is the most elitist possible act.

e·lite or é·lite (ĭ-lēt′, ā-lēt′)
n. pl. elite or e·lites or élite or é·lites
1.
a. A group or class of persons considered to be superior to others because of their intelligence, social standing, or wealth:

Person is a legal term.

A fetus is not a person.

 

[Quag]

Re: [W:344]License to Kill

To wit:

nothing but your personal subjective moral opinion

 

[Scrabaholic]

Re: [W:344]License to Kill

On the contrary, I believe I've acquitted myself of my burden of proof more than adequately to the satisfaction of any reasonable person. The morality I've put forward is grounded in evolutionary biology and issues in the moral principle that taking a human life for any other reason than defense of human life is immoral. That's irrefutable except by the standards of a-morality. That talking-point pro0choices refuse to acknowledge the reasonableness of my view is not surprising since this political camp is not interested in morality at all.

Prove it. Morality is subjective. What I find moral, you may not and vice versa.

 

[Scrabaholic]

Re: [W:344]License to Kill

The moment it leaves the woman's body and is alive it is murder.

Incorrect. Murder is the ILLEGAL killing of a person by a person. First, the zef is not a person. Second, abortion, where legal, CANNOT be murder. This is FACT.

 

[Scrabaholic]

Re: License to Kill

Really? I must have missed the explanation or speculation or whatever it was. Do babies begin to sense pain before or after their hearts start beating for the first time?

I posted when fetal pain is felt in post 1093.

 

[Scrabaholic]

Re: [W:344]License to Kill

To wit:

That is not proof. It is opinion.

 

[marke]

Re: License to Kill

I posted when fetal pain is felt in post 1093.

OK. We can agree that unborn babies begin sensing pain at 24 weeks or so. That means babies aborted during the 3rd trimester are subject to cruel, painful and unusual deaths.

 

[year2late]

Re: License to Kill

OK. We can agree that unborn babies begin sensing pain at 24 weeks or so. That means babies aborted during the 3rd trimester are subject to cruel, painful and unusual deaths.

Why do abortions usually occur in the third trimester?

Use your factual words.

 

[marke]

Re: License to Kill

Why do abortions usually occur in the third trimester?

Use your factual words.

Let me supply you with a reference source:

The Gospel Coalition (TGC)

 

[Angel]

Re: [W:344]License to Kill

That is not proof. It is opinion.

That is an argument. Please apprise yourself of the difference.

 

[Angel]

Re: [W:344]License to Kill

Prove it. Morality is subjective. What I find moral, you may not and vice versa.

You conflate moral judgment and morality. I've explained the difference several times over. Please try to keep up.

 

[Angel]

Re: [W:344]License to Kill

Thanks for your well thought out response.

I am not able to get that deep on this matter, at least not this early in the morning.

I consciously decided to end my relationships with two people I have known.

A buddy from childhood who moved to a different state and decades later moved back home and he shared with me that when he was arrested for something, the State Trooper was marching him to a secluded spot to kill him and somehow, he turned the tables and killed the Trooper. He was acquitted and after he told me the story, I had no further interest in his acquaintanceship.

And a woman I was very involved with at one time had a series of abortions (none of them mine) and I grew increasingly unable to see or speak to her without thinking badly of her, so I have chosen never to see or speak to her again.

To me, they were roughly the same.

I understand. Immorality is like a noxious odor.

 

[year2late]

Re: License to Kill

Let me supply you with a reference source:

The Gospel Coalition (TGC)

So for the health of the mother.

Did I miss that they omitted what is probably a more overwhelming reason? Severe genetic and other catastrophic fetal defects?

More frequently than not, when a woman has a severe medical issue in pregnancy where the fetus is past the point of viability...they just deliver the baby early. Happens a lot.

When I was pregnant and my complications arose....I was told that if I got worse, abortion would be a possible choice....and would likely reverse much of my conditions. I was told later on that if I got worse, I would be rushed to the hospital to likely have an emergent C-section (meaning an intentional premature delivery) I was lucky enough to have great insurance and great access to well resourced facilities.

But like I said, it is funny that the reason many happen - the genetic or catastrophic physiologic condition is not really addressed.

And please don't bring up the intentional misrepresentation of Governor Northam's remarks.

 

[year2late]

Re: [W:344]License to Kill

You conflate moral judgment and morality. I've explained the difference several times over. Please try to keep up.

An individual has their own morality based on their own beliefs and situation. You do not need to explain anymore. We know you believe this...but that is your belief. Others need not apply.

 

[Scrabaholic]

Re: License to Kill

OK. We can agree that unborn babies begin sensing pain at 24 weeks or so. That means babies aborted during the 3rd trimester are subject to cruel, painful and unusual deaths.

More like 29 weeks, according to the source I posted. (that fetuses feel pain) Show me an example of a woman actually aborting at 29+ weeks without compelling reason.

BTW, I believe the fetus is killed with a shot of some drug to the heart before the abortion begins. IIRC, Minnie has information on this.

 

[Scrabaholic]

Re: [W:344]License to Kill

You conflate moral judgment and morality. I've explained the difference several times over. Please try to keep up.

You've lost the argument. You have failed to prove that morality is objective or that abortion is immoral.

 

[Angel]

Re: [W:344]License to Kill

An individual has their own morality based on their own beliefs and situation. You do not need to explain anymore. We know you believe this...but that is your belief. Others need not apply.

You've lost the argument. You have failed to prove that morality is objective or that abortion is immoral.

Sorry, ladies. Your wishes aren't arguments, anymore than your contrary assertions. My argument stands unchallenged. Moral judgments are subjective, but they derive from a moral sense that is universal and objective, the morality innate to human beings, itself derivative of evolutionary biology. I understand why you don't like talk of biology and morality, but unless you have a counterargument to my argument or an argument of your own, you're just posting wishes.

 

[AGENT J]

Re: [W:344]License to Kill

1.)You conflate moral judgment and morality. I've explained the difference several times over.
2.) Please try to keep up.

1.) and your feelings lost to facts and definition each and every time.
2.) sweet irony, anybody keeping up knows #1 and nothign has changed

FACTS:
morals are subjective
Biology is meaningless to morality

When you or anybody has any facts that show otherwise please present them . . . .just ONE fact is all that is needed, thanks!