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[W:#23,579]Ukraine War Thread

JANFU said:
True the last ones were useless.
If the Finnish Parliament approves, it will not take years for NATO to approve.
Finns in their history have had a few wars with Russia.
Now the Finnish people realize it
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I've been to Finland on business lots in years past.

Even the young have always described the country's relationship with Russia o me as being a love/hate one, meanwhile maybe not so much stress on the hate but affection?

No way.

Never directed much against the Russian people but always against the Kremlin.

And Putin has certainly helped that along.
 
maxparrish said:
Remember the days of the Soviet Union, where they had to beg, borrow, and steal western technology, ignore international patent law, and even tried making Soviet blue jeans as a sub for Levi's?

Deje Vue all over again:



No way sanctions should be removed if Russia returns to type.
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He can't get his envisioned Arctic shelf oil out of the ground without Western technology.

Not that it matters because by the time he could, given (not) that the technology would be sullied, nobody will want that oil anymore anyway.
 
Someone needs to alert Joe, the DOD, and a few others in NATO:

 
Chagos said:
I've been to Finland on business lots in years past.

Even the young have always described the country's relationship with Russia o me as being a love/hate one, meanwhile maybe not so much stress on the hate but affection?

No way.

Never directed much against the Russian people but always against the Kremlin.

And Putin has certainly helped that along.
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Indeed he has. From what I have gathered, joining NATO did not have high public support- bounced around the 40's/low 50% of the population. I could be quite wrong on those numbers

Finland has a complicated history with Russia.Some links in the OP

Yes, Putin's gamble on western weakness is in a shambles
The west, their is high popular support to punish Russia/Putin

I am sure President Xi is not at all happy with Vlad
 
No idea if authentic, that said, would not be surprising
 
Reports starting that Finland/Sweden will apply to join NATO in the next few weeks, approved with 24 Hrs.
Must have been a lot of back talks on this.

 
This

apnews.com

White House: Intel shows Putin misled by advisers on Ukraine

The White House says U.S. intelligence officials have determined that Russian President Vladimir Putin is being misinformed by advisers about his military's poor performance in Ukraine.
apnews.com apnews.com

And this

apnews.com

Russia bombards areas where it pledged to scale back

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy says his country is at a “turning point” in the war with Russia.
apnews.com apnews.com

Nobody can take any peace talks with the Putin regime seriously.

Or anything else the Putin regime says about anything at all, really.
 
Chagos said:
I'll disagree on the point of NATO making any guarantees that would be even remotely similar to its article 5., on any peace deal.

When (not IF) Russia goes for Ukraine again, it would involve NATO in a direct war with Russia, just as much as if Ukraine were a NATO member.
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The problem is that a NATO guarantee of Ukraine pits nuclear powers against each other. Perhaps a defensive alliance with countries that border Russia including Ukraine that will support each other in case of a Russian incursion. This way NATO would only be involved if the incursion is into a NATO member.
 
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craig said:
The problem is that a NATO guarantee of Ukraine pits nuclear powers against each other. Perhaps a defensive alliance with countries that border Russia including Ukraine that will support each other in case of a Russian incursion. This way NATO would only be involved if the bordering country is a NATO member.
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Or we could let the Ukraine into NATO and tell Putin to eat the peanuts out of our shit.

One or the other.
 
craig said:
The problem is that a NATO guarantee of Ukraine pits nuclear powers against each other. Perhaps a defensive alliance with countries that border Russia including Ukraine that will support each other in case of a Russian incursion. This way NATO would only be involved if the bordering country is a NATO member.
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Which non NATO counties bordering on Ukraine will join such an alliance and fight against Russia? Belarus? Moldavia?
NATO.webp
 
JANFU said:
No idea if authentic, that said, would not be surprising
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Oh, that would have been so stupid. I hope this is fiction.
 
JANFU said:
Reports starting that Finland/Sweden will apply to join NATO in the next few weeks, approved with 24 Hrs.
Must have been a lot of back talks on this.

Click to expand...

LOL Sweet!
 
Quag said:
Which non NATO counties bordering on Ukraine will join such an alliance and fight against Russia? Belarus? Moldavia?
View attachment 67383097
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NATO countries can have other defensive alliances. Finland, Sweden, Poland, Latvia, Estonia, Lithuania, Moldavia, Georgia, and Turkey. Should be enough.
 
MaryP said:
Oh, that would have been so stupid. I hope this is fiction.
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It is likely fiction. Every other forest mammal seems to be doing fine and background levels are very low. Several years might be a problem but in just days?

On the other hand, there is always a chance they hit a hot spot, some debris from the fire and explosion that got buried somehow and they got near it?
 
craig said:
NATO countries can have other defensive alliances. Finland, Sweden, Poland, Latvia, Estonia, Lithuania, Moldavia, Georgia, and Turkey. Should be enough.
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Looks like Putin has pushed Finland into joining NATO. Sweden doesn't actually share a border with Russia, which leaves Moldavia and Georgia as the only non NATO members there. Moldavia is frankly irrelevant as a military and Georgia is too isolated from the anyone but Turkey (a NATO member) to be of any use to, or receive help from Ukraine
 
MaryP said:
Oh, that would have been so stupid. I hope this is fiction.
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10's of thousands traveled thru the area to attack Kiev.
Shortest route to Kiev runs thru Chernobyl
You must consider all the whelked. tracked vehicles that travlled thru.

This would raise dust levels, how toxic, no idea? I would say cancer risk increases and will increase.

Russians were holding the area. Strategic point as they have stored highly radioactive materials there. Some from what I recall need intensive tending by trained technicians

I am sure soldiers there were not rotated out, or using any protective gear.
Add in the fires, the risks just keep on getting higher for inhaling radioactive dust to skin contamination
Could be a fair number that will be impacted over the long term. And we know Russia looks after their soldiers.

For me, more dead Russians the better
Sad fact is many did not want to be there
Yes I feel for them and their families.
That said I can't tell the difference, so the more Russian KIA/WIA the better.
This road to a peace deal will be long and bloody
What a waste of lives.
 
Quag said:
Looks like Putin has pushed Finland into joining NATO. Sweden doesn't actually share a border with Russia, which leaves Moldavia and Georgia as the only non NATO members there. Moldavia is frankly irrelevant as a military and Georgia is too isolated from the anyone but Turkey (a NATO member) to be of any use to, or receive help from Ukraine
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A defensive alliance says we will unite to help defend your country if attacked. If Ukraine needs a defensive guarantee but can't join NATO to get a peace treaty with Russia, this is a way to do it. A member of the defensive alliance would not need to directly border Russia.
 
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