• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

[W:222]World's Thickest Mountain Glacier Is Finally Melting,

Re: World's Thickest Mountain Glacier Is Finally Melting,

Just continuing to cite bogus science from fake scientists writing on rightwing science-denying political blogs just makes you more ridiculous that you already are, Jack, and that's more than fine with me. Saves me time and energy.
Had you read the blog, you would have seen it referenced actual peer reviewed papers.
Error - Cookies Turned Off
 
Re: World's Thickest Mountain Glacier Is Finally Melting,

But, I'm betting you're still--in the face of all the facts about that glacier's shrinkage--going to stick to the lie that the pictures were doctored or just show the same glacier in reduced size even though those are the photos used in the Post's article which came from the original report. I'd like to lose that bet but I doubt I will.

The pictures look the same, bro. I even imported them into Photoshop for a closer look, lol. Pixel by pixel.
 
Re: World's Thickest Mountain Glacier Is Finally Melting,

The post cites (and links) four peer-reviewed papers. Stop deflecting.

Hilarious bull**** from you yet again. Don't ever stop playing the clown, Jack. And the projection.....oh, that ever-strong projection.
 
Re: World's Thickest Mountain Glacier Is Finally Melting,

The pictures look the same, bro. I even imported them into Photoshop for a closer look, lol. Pixel by pixel.[/QUOTE

Just as I predicted: You're sticking to your BS no matter how much it's proved to be BS. I note, though, that you at least hedged by saying they "looked" the same. At least you recognize your BS at some level. And now you're using the term "bro" so you've revealed that you're, what, 16--or 40 and still talking like a teenager?
 
Re: World's Thickest Mountain Glacier Is Finally Melting,

I won't go into whether it's stupidity, gullibility or just plain old lying that causes CAGW deniers to push their BS but whatever it's due to it's a pure pleasure to demolish it. That they'd think a blog called the No Tricks Zone was anything but a shill for anti-science BS should have been enough for any self-respecting human to steer clear. But not our boys. They fall for anything that hits their lizard brains' trigger centers. The most hilarious thing they've tried pushing in this discussion is how the articles cited at NTZ are "peer-reviewed" is not that they probably don't have a clue what "peer review" means but that the articles are being misrepresented and falsified on the blog:

On 24 October 2017, Breitbart.com’s James Delingpole published a story appearing to report that hundreds of scientific papers published in 2017 “prove” that global warming is a myth. This post followed Delingpole’s June 2017 clickbait success falsely alleging that 58 published papers proved the same thing.

Both stories primarily consisted of regurgitated material from a blog called the “No Tricks Zone” (NTZ), which highlights out-of-context sentences from (in most cases) legitimate scientific studies that the author of the blog incorrectly thinks dispute the tenets of anthropogenic global warming. The 400 studies in this latest piece cover topics wholly irrelevant to the question of anthropogenic global warming, including, for example, a study on the effect of wind turbines upon the viability of migratory bat populations.


The first time that Breitbart ran a NTZ based-story, numerous scientists listed in the report pointed out their their graphs had been digitally altered by NTZ to omit data, and that NTZ had either misinterpreted their papers or read them so superficially that the author of the post did not realize he was sometimes quoting from general background material and not the actual findings of the papers themselves.

Despite these deficiencies, a 23 October 2017 NTZ post upped the alleged tally of climate change-disproving papers from 58 to 400 (which, to be clear, still includes those previous misrepresented studies).

We emailed Delingpole to ask how long it took him to research his piece, given that less than 24 hours elapsed between the original NTZ post and his Breitbart piece. Rather than write back, Delingpole published our query on Breitbart, along with the following response (which read in part):

As little time as I possibly could.

Speaking of his unyielding faith in Kenneth Richard, the author of the New Tricks Zone post, Delingpole said:

Obviously, if it turns out that Kenneth Richard has misrepresented these papers, then yes, I can be criticized for having lazily helped promulgate a lie.

Richard misrepresents and misinterprets these papers in many instances. For example, NTZ misrepresented a graph from a 2017 paper that intentionally removed the long term global warming trend so researchers could investigate other trends in the record — a fact that went unmentioned in his post. NTZ reported on the graph (below) as if it were evidence that global temperatures were flat, despite the fact that the post had intentionally and explicitly removed that signal:

[DP would not load image]



Without the removal of the longer term warming trend, that above figure would have looked like this, as presented by the study’s author in a figure plotted for Climate Feedback:


[DP would not load image]


NTZ employs three main strategies: straw man arguments that falsely change the evidence for global warming into something that is easier to refute; the inclusion of papers wholly irrelevant to the reality of anthropogenic climate change; and the inclusion of papers (or conference abstracts) that almost certainly underwent little or no peer review process.

continued......
 
Re: World's Thickest Mountain Glacier Is Finally Melting,

I won't go into whether it's stupidity, gullibility or just plain old lying that causes CAGW deniers to push their BS but whatever it's due to it's a pure pleasure to demolish it. That they'd think a blog called the No Tricks Zone was anything but a shill for anti-science BS should have been enough for any self-respecting human to steer clear. But not our boys. They fall for anything that hits their lizard brains' trigger centers. The most hilarious thing they've tried pushing in this discussion is how the articles cited at NTZ are "peer-reviewed" is not that they probably don't have a clue what "peer review" means but that the articles are being misrepresented and falsified on the blog:



continued......

Unlinked and false.
 
Re: World's Thickest Mountain Glacier Is Finally Melting,

Straw Man Arguments

A majority of the papers that allegedly prove that “global warming is a myth” rest primarily on false representations of what climatologists actually expect to see in the climate system. NTZ is peddling three main false representations:

Straw Man One: The concept of anthropogenic global warming requires there be no other drivers of climate whatsoever.

The categories that fall under this classic straw man argument are the studies highlighting the role of the sun in the climate system (“It’s the sun stupid”), studies that demonstrate natural oscillations in the climate system (“Climate influenced by natural oscillation”), and studies that show that volcanoes or tectonics have in some way affected the climate in the past (“Volcano/Tectonic Influence on Climate”).

To be clear, climate science has never required there to be no influence on the climate from the sun, from volcanoes, or from short term oscillations such as El Niño; in fact, much of climatology involves teasing apart these relationships. However, most of the studies NTZ highlights attempt to use such investigations as evidence that anthropogenic climate change is a myth. Zeke Hausfather, a research scientist at the independent Berkeley Earth research group, which was initially (but is no longer) skeptical of global warming, and was originally funded by the Koch brothers, told us:

Climate scientists study things like volcanoes, changes in solar output, changes in the Earth’s orbit, multidecadal natural variability in the Atlantic and Pacific, and other factors that impact climate change. They find that natural factors alone would have resulted in a modest cooling over the past 50 years or so, compared to the dramatic warming that we’ve experienced.

Ernesto Tejedor Vargas, whose study “Temperature Variability in the Iberian Range Since 1602 Inferred from Tree-ring Records” was featured in both the June Breitbart article and in the current iteration, told Climate Feedback in June that he “would like the author of the No Tricks Zone post to remove my name from the blog since it is not reflecting our research conclusion”. His request went unheeded, and his work reappears in Breitbart’s October post:



continued.............
 
Last edited:
Re: World's Thickest Mountain Glacier Is Finally Melting,

end of article:

The article […] is not a climate-change-denying paper. It is a paleoclimate paper showing, first, a new maximum temperature reconstruction for the last 400 years (including the current warming) and second, a new standardization method in dendrochronology to remove the non-climatic trend. The image in the post does not by any means reflect the message of the paper.[/B]

Does the existence of anthropogenic global warming require the pre-industrialized Iberian Peninsula to be unresponsive to volcanic and solar influences? Only if you are aggressively uninterested in trying to understand the science.

Straw Man Two: The concept of anthropogenic global warming requires every location on earth to respond to climatic variables in the same way.

A number of studies cited by both Breitbart and NTZ use records from a specific, narrow geographic location to suggest that the world as a whole is not warming. No reasonable climate scientist, however, would argue that this is the case, as Hausfather told us:

In fact, we expect different parts of the world to warm at different rates (e.g. land warming faster than oceans), and things like precipitation changes have distinct regional patterns. Similarly, not every year will be warmer than the last. Short-term variability driven by El Nino and La Nina cycles can have a big impact on individual year’s temperatures, though it averages out over longer time periods.

Jessica Conroy, whose paper investigating fluctuations in Monsoon precipitation on the Southern Tibetan Plateau was presented by Breitbart, also told us:

I do not agree with Breitbart’s assessment of my work. My paper does not discuss 20th century anthropogenic warming trends, but decadal to centennial variability in the monsoon precipitation of the southern Tibetan Plateau.


Such variability has the ability to amplify or attenuate anthropogenic trends in precipitation, and leads to greater uncertainty in projections of future precipitation change. It is certainly not evidence to use to claim that anthropogenic greenhouse gas emissions are not changing the climate


The study of past and present regional short term climatic variability is an active field within climatology. The finding that precipitation fluctuates in complicated and not fully understood ways that are both independent of, and related to, global warming is by no means proof that the world is not warming due to increased greenhouse emissions.

Straw Man Three: The evidence for anthropogenic global warming is entirely model-based

Many of the studies included in the NTZ suite of papers include critiques of or refinements to climate models. These studies generally highlight the fact that disagreements and flaws exist in the computer programs used to model an entire heterogeneous global system. NTZ and Breitbart present these studies in a way meant to imply that the reality of global warming is dependent on those models, which is wholly false, as Hausfather said:

Our understanding of the reality of global warming really doesn’t depend on climate models. Basic physics going back to the mid-1800s tells us that CO2 is a greenhouse gas, and increased atmospheric concentrations of CO2 will warm the Earth. While modern science has added lots of nuance like carbon cycle feedbacks, ice sheet dynamics, and other complexities of the Earth’s climate, the basics are pretty much unchanged.

A great example of this tactic uses a paper by Erica Rosenblum and Ian Eisenman that investigates problems computer models have in accurately predicting Arctic and Antarctic sea ice cover. While the paper may be an indictment of a particular aspect of a particular model, it is in no way an indictment of the reality of global warming.

Rosenblum told us that the sentences excerpted by Delingpole and NTZ actually came from basic introductory material that “our field already agreed on before we published this paper”:

Our paper certainly does not say that “global warming is a myth”. It does not say that “‘global warming’ — as in the big scare story that the planet is heating up at a catastrophic unprecedented rate because of man-made CO2 emissions — is bunk; or that the methods being used to combat the problem are bunk.”

Our main results showed that the models appear to be too conservative and simulate Arctic sea ice that is not sensitive enough to changes in global temperatures.

Refinements to climate models are not evidence of controversy among those who study climate science; instead, they are the heart of how these models are improved over time.
 
Re: World's Thickest Mountain Glacier Is Finally Melting,

The way I see it, the author at Live Science intentionally altered the NASA photos, to give the visual effect of shrinking, when there is almost not change. Here are the two original photos from the NASA Earth Observatory site:

takuglacierretreat_oli_2014232_lrg.jpg



takuglacierretreat_oli_2019221_lrg.jpg


They are the same size and scale. It's too easy to crop the exact same size and area, especially when the original picture covers exactly the same area and scale.

These guys at Live Science are either idiots, or intentionally being deceptive.

These images are 5031 x 4542. If you "view image" on your browser, and magnify with the "+", you can crop out the area of both in equal scale and compare yourself.

But wait, we don't know if the satellite was in the same position or if these were taken on the same day. Do you see how ridiculous your previous (different thread) was?
 
Re: World's Thickest Mountain Glacier Is Finally Melting,

Subjective at best, put a number on it and see if it stands up?
Also Skeptical Science is not a valid reference.

There are links to all the (not subjective) studies represented in the graph. So, of course, you're not going to go to the actual data but just continue to lie away on climate change. I expected nothing different from that. It's a given that whenever you deniers ask for data that you will summarily ignore it. But I just wanted to make sure that you knew the data is out there, that it's solid and no amount of lying or ignorance on the part of science-denying liars can ever change that.
 
Re: World's Thickest Mountain Glacier Is Finally Melting,

But wait, we don't know if the satellite was in the same position or if these were taken on the same day. Do you see how ridiculous your previous (different thread) was?

Actually, we do know 1) the satellite was in the same position; 2) they were not taken on the same day; and 3) the top photograph is noticeably older than the bottom photograph.

You can see the Mendenhall Glacier in the bottom photograph is noticeably shorter than the top photograph. How old I couldn't say, but more than just a few days because there is a noticeable and measurable receding going on with the Mendenhall Glacier. The bottom photograph is also at a lower tide than the top photograph, so they were photographed at different times of the day. Judging from the snow melt, the bottom photograph is much newer than the top photograph, by at least several weeks.
 
Re: World's Thickest Mountain Glacier Is Finally Melting,

Since all NTZ citations are linked to the original papers, the accusation is obviously false.

And no, there's no lie.

Damn Jack... how many times does the truth about NTZ's BS have to be pointed out to you before you get a clue and go look for yourself? Here is a tip that I have found very useful when debunking NTZ misinformation... start at the end of the list. Most of the outright lying is further down.
 
Re: World's Thickest Mountain Glacier Is Finally Melting,

Damn Jack... how many times does the truth about NTZ's BS have to be pointed out to you before you get a clue and go look for yourself? Here is a tip that I have found very useful when debunking NTZ misinformation... start at the end of the list. Most of the outright lying is further down.

Nope. They're good from top to bottom.
 
Re: World's Thickest Mountain Glacier Is Finally Melting,

Nope. They're good from top to bottom.

Good for misinforming the gullible.
 
Back
Top Bottom