• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

[W:183]Let's have a real discussion about abortion

Re: Let's have a real discussion about abortion

maquiscat said:
Sadly, there are South American countries where not even the mother's life makes it legal. They are arresting and prosecuting women who have had miscarriages.

Sent from my cp3705A using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

I know they exist.



They are far from paradises
 
Re: Let's have a real discussion about abortion

code1211 said:
You did not respond to my question.

Here it is again:

"If a thing is not sentient, what, exactly, does being "kept comfortable" mean?"
Click to expand...

Who said it wasn't sentient?
 
Re: Let's have a real discussion about abortion

code1211 said:
Under what circumstance do you recommend that a healthy new born be euthanized?
Click to expand...

If it will very likely be terminal in a short period of time or it is already brain dead
 
Re: Let's have a real discussion about abortion

code1211 said:
According to Governor Black Face, it can also be done for any reason and/or for no reason at all AND be legalized under provisions of Abortion legislation.

We are NOT talking about Euthanasia or legislation regulating it. We are talking about abortion and the legislation proposed to regulate it..
Click to expand...

Factually incorrect. Prove it
 
Re: Let's have a real discussion about abortion

code1211 said:
You seem to be confused on the differences that separate Abortion and euthanasia.

Is the "it" in your statement in regard to Euthanasia or Abortion?
Click to expand...

No I'm not
 
Re: Let's have a real discussion about abortion

code1211 said:
So now Euthanasia is a synonym, in your understanding, for Abortion? Interesting. Also wrong.

Separate but equal was legal in all states. Also immoral.

Legality and morality are not synonyms. Incidentally, neither are Abortion and Euthanasia.
Click to expand...

There is no abortion post birth. It then is euthanasia. But these are simply semantics
 
Re: Let's have a real discussion about abortion

vegas giants said:
If it will very likely be terminal in a short period of time or it is already brain dead
Click to expand...
Wouldn't that by definition be not healthy?

Sent from my cp3705A using Tapatalk
 
Re: Let's have a real discussion about abortion

maquiscat said:
Wouldn't that by definition be not healthy?

Sent from my cp3705A using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Well yes of course. In Virginia the measure allowed termination in cases where there may be severe deformities or when there is a foetus that's not viable outside the womb.
 
Last edited:
Re: Let's have a real discussion about abortion

RaleBulgarian said:
code1211 lying continues.
Click to expand...

That particular sentence you quote is actually true. What we are discussing is euthanasia of a born fetus.


Which I support in the right circumstances
 
Re: Let's have a real discussion about abortion

vegas giants said:
That particular sentence you quote is actually true. What we are discussing is euthanasia of a born fetus.


Which I support in the right circumstances
Click to expand...
To be clear, are you saying that Northam was discussing euthanasia?
 
Re: Let's have a real discussion about abortion

RaleBulgarian said:
To be clear, are you saying that Northam was discussing euthanasia?
Click to expand...

I am saying that is what it is. He may not call it that but there is no post birth abortion. Once the fetus is born technically it would be euthanasia
 
Re: Let's have a real discussion about abortion

tosca1 said:
Speaking of right privacy - I have an opinion that I think would make for an interesting discussion. I just have to formulate my OP to present the argument I have rattling loosely in my head - then maybe, I'll create a thread for it.
Click to expand...

Nobody is stopping you. I would be interested.
 
Re: Let's have a real discussion about abortion

vegas giants said:
I am saying that is what it is. He may not call it that but there is no post birth abortion. Once the fetus is born technically it would be euthanasia
Click to expand...
As has already been explained to you, making someone as comfortable as possible while allowing them to die isn’t at all the same as euthanasia.
 
Re: Let's have a real discussion about abortion

code1211 said:
He said what he said.

The proposed legislation said what it said.

They are discussing the termination of life of a new born baby that may, and of course, may not, be suffering from some form of disability or deformity.

You can dress up a pig in any outfit you like, but the pig is still a pig.
Click to expand...

You did not read everything he said or anything the bill sponsor said. What you posted is only a tiny part of the whole thing.

I am not dressing up anything, just stating the totally unbiased, proven, undeniable facts.
 
Blue Donkey said:
With all of that said, let's begin. The United States Constitution is very clear that zygotes, blastocysts, embryos, and fetuses have no rights and all girls and women have the rights to privacy, bodily autonomy, and lifestyle choices. This can't be denied. Also undeniable are the definitions of murder and homicide, which have always been limited to killing born humans for malicious reasons in both English dictionaries and books about law. So the abortion debate is not about if the right to have abortions does exist, but everything else - sociology, biology, maternity, crimes, and personal finance.
Click to expand...

1. Referencing the Constitution is an appeal to authority. The Constitution at one time gave no rights to blacks and they were counted as 3/5th of a person in the census. That's just one example. There are endless examples that can be provided showing governments throughout history have not been the proper arbiters of what is right. So you're correct in that these statements cannot be denied, but they are also irrelevant to the discussion.

2. Homicide is not, in fact, limited to born humans. See below:

Unborn Victims of Violence Act - Wikipedia
 
Re: Let's have a real discussion about abortion

RaleBulgarian said:
As has already been explained to you, making someone as comfortable as possible while allowing them to die isn’t at all the same as euthanasia.
Click to expand...

Actually often it is. They will stop extraordinary measures. That is euthanasia. There is no such thing as post birth abortion
 
Fishking said:
1. Referencing the Constitution is an appeal to authority. The Constitution at one time gave no rights to blacks and they were counted as 3/5th of a person in the census. That's just one example. There are endless examples that can be provided showing governments throughout history have not been the proper arbiters of what is right. So you're correct in that these statements cannot be denied, but they are also irrelevant to the discussion.

2. Homicide is not, in fact, limited to born humans. See below:

Unborn Victims of Violence Act - Wikipedia
Click to expand...

The law you cite specifically excludes abortion providers. In writing. Why?
 
Re: Let's have a real discussion about abortion

vegas giants said:
You dont understand euthanasia. In most cases we remove a feeding tube and let the person starve to death. Nature takes its course. We turn off a ventilator and let nature take its course. We stop extraordinary measures and nature takes its course.

Dont try to lecture me on a topic you know nothing about
Click to expand...

Scrabaholic is correct. The specific euthanasia procedure is injecting a lethal anesthetic drug to make the heart stop beating in less than a minute. The patient may be hooked up to an iV tube, but this is generally unnecessary. Literally, the word means "good death." So people use it two different ways, the other being "pulling the plug" if a patient is on life support.
 
Re: Let's have a real discussion about abortion

Blue Donkey said:
Scrabaholic is correct. The specific euthanasia procedure is injecting a lethal anesthetic drug to make the heart stop beating in less than a minute. The patient may be hooked up to an iV tube, but this is generally unnecessary. Literally, the word means "good death." So people use it two different ways, the other being "pulling the plug" if a patient is on life support.
Click to expand...

Wrong. The most common form of euthanasia is to remove a feeding tube of a brain dead person. The next is not to use extraordinary measures to save the patient if they are not breathing or have a heart attack. The third is to turnnoff a ventilator or pull the plug. In a few states they also allow active measures to stop the heart like an injection.


The baby in this case is given the second option. Comfort care only
 
Re: Let's have a real discussion about abortion

vegas giants said:
Actually often it is. They will stop extraordinary measures. That is euthanasia. There is no such thing as post birth abortion
Click to expand...
We have no disagreement regarding false assertions of “post birth abortion”. Only idiots or liars would argue such a thing is possible.

You may think that euthanasia and palliative/hospice care are the same, but factually they are not. Although the person is dead at the end of both processes, those processes are different legally and (in my opinion) morally.
 
Re: Let's have a real discussion about abortion

RaleBulgarian said:
We have no disagreement regarding false assertions of “post birth abortion”. Only idiots or liars would argue such a thing is possible.

You may think that euthanasia and palliative/hospice care are the same, but factually they are not. Although the person is dead at the end of both processes, those processes are different legally and (in my opinion) morally.
Click to expand...

We can agree to disagree
 
Re: Let's have a real discussion about abortion

vegas giants said:
Wrong. The most common form of euthanasia is to remove a feeding tube of a brain dead person. The next is not to use extraordinary measures to save the patient if they are not breathing or have a heart attack. The third is to turn off a ventilator or pull the plug. In a few states they also allow active measures to stop the heart like an injection.

The baby in this case is given the second option. Comfort care only
Click to expand...

I do not consider that one euthanasia because the word makes me think of an active procedure.
 
Re: Let's have a real discussion about abortion

Blue Donkey said:
I do not consider that one euthanasia because the word makes me think of an active procedure.
Click to expand...

I think we are really splitting hairs here. Its largely semantics.


Either way I find the virginia law to be constitutional, moral and appropriate
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom