[W:183]Let's have a real discussion about abortion (1 Viewer)

[cpwill]

Re: Let's have a real discussion about abortion

the United States is an outlier, here, in that we have so few (if any) restrictions.

Canada has less than US.

And in China they will actually force abortions if your child isn't authorized by the State.

and in most places, they are more restrictive. For example:

Most countries in the European Union allow abortion on demand during the first trimester, with Sweden and the Netherlands having more extended time limits. After the first trimester, abortion is generally allowed only under certain circumstances, such as risk to woman's life or health, fetal defects or other specific situations that may be related to the circumstances of the conception or the woman's age. For instance, in Austria, second trimester abortions are allowed only if there is a serious risk to physical health of woman (that cannot be averted by other means); risk to mental health of woman (that cannot be averted by other means); immediate risk to life of woman (that cannot be averted by other means); serious fetal impairment (physical or mental); or if the woman is under 14 years of age. Some countries, such as Denmark, allow abortion after the first trimester for a variety of reasons, including socioeconomic ones, but a woman needs an authorization to have such an abortion...​

As I stated - the United States is an outlier in that we have so few (if any) restrictions.

 

[vegas giants]

Re: Let's have a real discussion about abortion

And in China they will actually force abortions if your child isn't authorized by the State.

and in most places, they are more restrictive. For example:

Most countries in the European Union allow abortion on demand during the first trimester, with Sweden and the Netherlands having more extended time limits. After the first trimester, abortion is generally allowed only under certain circumstances, such as risk to woman's life or health, fetal defects or other specific situations that may be related to the circumstances of the conception or the woman's age. For instance, in Austria, second trimester abortions are allowed only if there is a serious risk to physical health of woman (that cannot be averted by other means); risk to mental health of woman (that cannot be averted by other means); immediate risk to life of woman (that cannot be averted by other means); serious fetal impairment (physical or mental); or if the woman is under 14 years of age. Some countries, such as Denmark, allow abortion after the first trimester for a variety of reasons, including socioeconomic ones, but a woman needs an authorization to have such an abortion...​

As I stated - the United States is an outlier in that we have so few (if any) restrictions.

Yet abortion in some form is available in almost every country on earth.

 

[cpwill]

Re: Let's have a real discussion about abortion

Yet abortion in some form is available in almost every country on earth.

In some form, yes - life of the mother, for example, which most Pro-Lifers would keep. The United States is an outlier in that we have so few - if any - restrictions, putting us well outside the norm when it comes to abortion law.

 

[Patriotic Voter]

Re: Let's have a real discussion about abortion

Restricted Abortion is legal in almost every country on earth. The United States is one of only a small handful of countries that allows it at any time during the pregnancy and effectively on-demand.

Where did you get this information from?

It is only true if you are able to post a link to it.

 

[vegas giants]

Re: Let's have a real discussion about abortion

In some form, yes - life of the mother, for example, which most Pro-Lifers would keep. The United States is an outlier in that we have so few - if any - restrictions, putting us well outside the norm when it comes to abortion law.

Countries with only life of the mother are very very rare. They are the outlier. Any reason at all in the first trimester is the norm

 

[cpwill]

Re: Let's have a real discussion about abortion

Where did you get this information from?

It is only true if you are able to post a link to it.

Well, no. Things can be true without links (for example: "I am enjoying watching my kids work on the yard; it's good to see them grow into youths who can be reliably assigned tasks and complete them without constant oversight" is true, but I couldn't link it for you, nor could you really expect me to).

But, fortunately for you, a link to the Wikipedia article outlining abortion law across the globe shortly followed.

 

[RaleBulgarian]

Re: Let's have a real discussion about abortion

It's how scotus currently sees it

Correctly, I’d say.

 

[cpwill]

Re: Let's have a real discussion about abortion

Countries with only life of the mother are very very rare.

Indeed. Roughly as rare as countries with rule like ours are.

They are the outlier.

About as much as we are.

Any reason at all in the first trimester is the norm

A restriction that most Americans would prefer to our current law:
...

... more than six in 10 of those who say they are pro-choice (61 percent) join the three-quarters of all Americans in wanting abortion restricted to – again, at most – the first trimester. So do about six in 10 Democrats (59 percent), eight in 10 independents (78 percent) and nine in 10 Republicans (92 percent)....​

 

[vegas giants]

Re: Let's have a real discussion about abortion

A restriction that most Americans would prefer to our current law:
...

... more than six in 10 of those who say they are pro-choice (61 percent) join the three-quarters of all Americans in wanting abortion restricted to – again, at most – the first trimester. So do about six in 10 Democrats (59 percent), eight in 10 independents (78 percent) and nine in 10 Republicans (92 percent)....​

View attachment 67277163

Surveys are nice. I can find lots of surveys online.


Most surveys say say a majority of Americans support abortion.

 

[cpwill]

Re: Let's have a real discussion about abortion

Surveys are nice. I can find lots of surveys online.


Most surveys say say a majority of Americans support abortion.

Most Survey's say a majority of Americans want abortion sharply restricted

 

[vegas giants]

Re: Let's have a real discussion about abortion

Most Survey's say a majority of Americans want abortion sharply restricted

Not in the first trimester

Trimesters Still Key to U.S. Abortion Views

 

[cpwill]

Re: Let's have a real discussion about abortion

Not in the first trimester

Trimesters Still Key to U.S. Abortion Views

Sort of.

 

[vegas giants]

Re: Let's have a real discussion about abortion

Sort of.

View attachment 67277165

Not according to gallup

Trimesters Still Key to U.S. Abortion Views

 

[Lursa]

Re: Let's have a real discussion about abortion

We abort offspring in some states regardless of age? Which states?

WA St for one It's allowed by law, but none take place.

Because women dont have elective abortions that late.

 

[Lursa]

Re: Let's have a real discussion about abortion

Did you read the pull quote?

He clearly says the baby would be delivered and kept comfortable.

When your dentist pulls your tooth, does he assures that it is kept comfortable?

Yes...and if the baby is delivered, it's not an abortion :doh

Kind of a huge 'duh!' to not understand that.

And then, as been explained to you before, the law is no different than when any other preemie or newborn is born with severe defects: the parents have the option of choosing it be kept comfortable until it dies naturally (comfort care, hospice, palliative care) or taking extreme measures to try and save it. This is current law in every or nearly every state.

Do you object to the current law? If not, then why are you misconstruing this delivery of the severely defective newborn into something else? If so, then what are your morally-based reasons for objecting to the current laws?

 

[Lursa]

Re: Let's have a real discussion about abortion

I rarely discuss abortion because the subject tends to evolve into attacks and recriminations. This has been the case since my first vote cast in 1972.
However, because I am often at odds with other evangelical Christians, I am adding my two cents.

1) America is a democracy in which the majority of her citizens support a woman's right to make her own personal decision to bring her pregnancy to term. Or not.

2) As a Christian I believe human life is a gift from our creator God. Many intellectuals have proven that God exists because our complex universe could not have come from nothingness.

3) The teachings of Jesus Christ make clear that each human being will be judged--both the living and the dead--based on sum of our life.

4) Therefore, any woman who chooses of her own free will to abort her pregnancy within the currently legal parameters, does so facing God's ultimate judgement of her actions.

5) It is a woman's right under the law of the United States to have access to a safe, medically humane abortion, even though I personally do not support her making such a choice.

6) My rationale is that I am both a Christian and an American citizen. If I am willing to defend your right to free speech, or to a impartial trial, I should also support a woman's rights under the law.

Ehhhhhhhhhhhh. Wrong. That's a joke. I'm also a practicing Christian and I dont need there to be proof of Our Lord...I believe on faith...which is what He demands.

OTOH you arrive in some contorted way in the pro-choice position. (No one 'likes' abortion). Actually, it's not that contorted, I apologize...you are recognizing that God gave us all free will and we will answer for our sins someday if we dont repent. However nowhere in the Bible does the Lord discuss abortion yet scripture does show that he values women more than their unborn. So I also dont believe it's a sin...all women have justifiable reasons for why they need an abortion and as you point out, the Lord will be that Judge.

 

[Scrabaholic]

Re: Let's have a real discussion about abortion

Essentially he did. That's what this is. Euthanasia

Show where you think he said it.

 

[Scrabaholic]

The Constitution, unlike deluded abortionists, does not contradict science by claiming fetuses with beating hearts are not human and should not be treated as such.

Who is saying that fetuses are not human?

 

[Scrabaholic]

Re: Let's have a real discussion about abortion

Did you read the pull quote?

He clearly says the baby would be delivered and kept comfortable.

When your dentist pulls your tooth, does he assures that it is kept comfortable?

That is NOT "post birth abortion". Good grief.

 

[Scrabaholic]

Re: Let's have a real discussion about abortion

You are suffering from an ongoing delusion.

Read the article and listen to the radio interview.

There is NOTHING about ending the life of the child. NOT.ONE.SINGLE.SENTENCE.

 

[Scrabaholic]

Re: Let's have a real discussion about abortion

There are people in this thread that actually support the legalization of abortion.

Think about that for a moment.

Abortion IS legal, as it should be.

 

[cpwill]

Re: Let's have a real discussion about abortion

Not according to gallup

Trimesters Still Key to U.S. Abortion Views

:facepalm:


Ever heard the term, "You get what you measure"?

In this poll, Gallup allowed only three answers - first trimester, first and second, all three.

And then wrote an article about how - aha! - 100% of respondents had an opinion on the trimester at which abortion should be allowed/not allowed.


They get better here, where they note that 50% of Americans want to restrict or allow Abortion based on "certain circumstances".

...The result is that 43% of Americans say abortion should be legal in all (29%) or most (14%) circumstances, while a majority of 53% say it should be legal in only a few (35%) or no circumstances (18%). No fewer than 51% of Americans have favored more restrictive abortion laws since 1994...​

 

[Lursa]

Re: Let's have a real discussion about abortion

There is NOTHING about ending the life of the child. NOT.ONE.SINGLE.SENTENCE.

What form of insanity is that? To read over and over and still 'see' that? To translate the written word into something completely not there?

 

[Patriotic Voter]

Re: Let's have a real discussion about abortion

Ehhhhhhhhhhhh. Wrong. That's a joke. I'm also a practicing Christian and I dont need there to be proof of Our Lord...I believe on faith...which is what He demands.

OTOH you arrive in some contorted way in the pro-choice position. (No one 'likes' abortion). Actually, it's not that contorted, I apologize...you are recognizing that God gave us all free will and we will answer for our sins someday if we dont repent. However, nowhere in the Bible does the Lord discuss abortion, yet Scripture does show that he values women more than their unborn. So I also dont believe it's a sin...all women have justifiable reasons for why they need an abortion and as you point out, the Lord will be that Judge.

Incorrect. One chapter can be used for both the pro-life and pro-choice arguments.

Job 10 NIV

Some other verses describe ripping a pregnant woman's body apart to remove the fetus.

 

[RaleBulgarian]

Re: Let's have a real discussion about abortion

You are suffering from an ongoing delusion.

Read the article and listen to the radio interview.

Wrong. You are deluded. Self deluded.

People like you criticize those who are pro-choice for being callous and uncaring when, in fact, it’s people like you who are callous and uncaring.

If you had your way, babies born with severe congenital defects that could not be treated/repaired would be forced to endure whatever extraordinary and painful measures necessary to extend their lives, even for a short time, just so you could satisfy your sick need to feel like you’re doing god’s work.

Disgusting.