[W:183]Let's have a real discussion about abortion

[Patriotic Voter]

Re: Let's have a real discussion about abortion

Dayton, let's go through the process of understanding what weaver was doing.

Governor Ralph Northam made a confusing comment that pro-lifers interpret to mean he supports infanticide because they pick intentionally take it out of context. This happens all the time. Pro-lifers pull out sentences or paragraphs that fit their relgioius agenda. If their cherry-picking is successful, we end up getting the kinds of comments you posted. But Northam made other comments that emphasize he does not support infanticide at all. What he really wants clearly is a woman's right to not bear a fatally defective baby, which will, if you think about it, prevent infant deaths via "pulling the plug" or euthanasia. Did you ever think about the financial losses and distress both parents have while a suffering baby who cannot live on its own is on life support? The loving thing to do is abort it when they know there is no chance the baby will be viable. The only possible way you could not understand this is to be less intelligent than the people you claim are stupid, such as weaver.

 

[Dayton3]

Re: Let's have a real discussion about abortion

Dayton, let's go through the process of understanding what weaver was doing.

Governor Ralph Northam made a confusing comment that pro-lifers interpret to mean he supports infanticide because they pick intentionally take it out of context. This happens all the time. Pro-lifers pull out sentences or paragraphs that fit their relgioius agenda. If their cherry-picking is successful, we end up getting the kinds of comments you posted. But Northam made other comments that emphasize he does not support infanticide at all. What he really wants clearly is a woman's right to not bear a fatally defective baby, which will, if you think about it, prevent infant deaths via "pulling the plug" or euthanasia. Did you ever think about the financial losses and distress both parents have while a suffering baby who cannot live on its own is on life support? The loving thing to do is abort it when they know there is no chance the baby will be viable. The only possible way you could not understand this is to be less intelligent than the people you claim are stupid, such as weaver.

I never said weaver2 was stupid. I said her personal attacks indicated her argument was "intellectually bankrupt". That is what I was taught in debate class. When I was on the debate team, if your side uttered a personal insult clearly directed at a member of the other side, you automatically lost the debate no matter how compelling or convincing your argument was otherwise.

 

[Patriotic Voter]

Re: Let's have a real discussion about abortion

The idea of a woman having control over her reproduction abilities is tied to liberty of the individual.

So is her right to choose motherhood. Nothing in the Constitution forces every pregnant citizen to keep her baby.

 

[Patriotic Voter]

Re: Let's have a real discussion about abortion

I never said weaver2 was stupid. I said her personal attacks indicated her argument was "intellectually bankrupt". That is what I was taught in debate class. When I was on the debate team, if your side uttered a personal insult clearly directed at a member of the other side, you automatically lost the debate no matter how compelling or convincing your argument was otherwise.

Anyone who has taken a debate class certainly would know this: If you can't prove your argument, which weaver did in many threads, you have no argument to prove. And you are always the one who can't prove anything.

 

[jghiretire]

After countless petty arguments that break down into personal attacks in almost every abortion thread, we are long overdue for real, constructive discussions here. That means no matter how you feel about every pregnant citizen's right to have a legal abortion, you must avoid letting emotions rule and totally ignore the facts. Emotions are great, but facts always come first. If your opinions are based on emotions, they are worthless because there are no facts to support them. Yes, I am talking to the anti-choicers here, but pro-choicers have to do their part too. On both sides, the rule is, "If you can't prove it, you're wrong."

With all of that said, let's begin. The United States Constitution is very clear that zygotes, blastocysts, embryos, and fetuses have no rights and all girls and women have the rights to privacy, bodily autonomy, and lifestyle choices. This can't be denied. Also undeniable are the definitions of murder and homicide, which have always been limited to killing born humans for malicious reasons in both English dictionaries and books about law. So the abortion debate is not about if the right to have abortions does exist, but everything else - sociology, biology, maternity, crimes, and personal finance.

You must be hoping for a miracle...........

 

[Patriotic Voter]

You must be hoping for a miracle...........

It was working before Dayton joined in.

 

[jghiretire]

Re: Let's have a real discussion about abortion

Your opinion is based on someone else's opinion of what the "law" should be. Once upon a time we had a law that said it was ok to own another person and do with them as you like. Abortion is sort of like that. According to your opinion a woman owns that "fetus" and can do with it what ever she likes. Chose to kill it or to let it live. We wisely did away with that law that allowed us to own other people and do with them whatever we wanted. Hopefully we will get rid of the current one that allows us to "own" another person, (born or not).

Men discussing abortion...........you know nothing and will never have to deal with it yourselves. :roll::roll::roll:

 

[Scrabaholic]

Re: Let's have a real discussion about abortion

He said euthanasia is appropriate in some circumstances

No, he did not.

 

[Dayton3]

Re: Let's have a real discussion about abortion

Men discussing abortion...........you know nothing and will never have to deal with it yourselves. :roll::roll::roll:

Oh yeah because no man has ever had a mother, sister, wife, girlfriend...

 

[vegas giants]

Re: Let's have a real discussion about abortion

No, he did not.

Essentially he did. That's what this is. Euthanasia

 

[code1211]

Re: Let's have a real discussion about abortion

Actually in some states we do this legally at any age. We need to make it a federal law

We abort offspring in some states regardless of age? Which states?

 

[code1211]

Re: Let's have a real discussion about abortion

I support euthanasia as moral and appropriate in some circumstances

You response has no connection in any way to my question.

This is what I asked:

"Are you asserting that the lack of legality makes this a moral act?

Are those recommending that it be legal standing on a strong moral footing?"

 

[vegas giants]

Re: Let's have a real discussion about abortion

We abort offspring in some states regardless of age? Which states?

Euthanasia is legal in Washington, vermont, Oregon and California

 

[vegas giants]

Re: Let's have a real discussion about abortion

You response has no connection in any way to my question.

This is what I asked:

"Are you asserting that the lack of legality makes this a moral act?

Are those recommending that it be legal standing on a strong moral footing?"

Those recommending it be legal are standing on strong moral footing

 

[tosca1]

Re: Let's have a real discussion about abortion

It is explicit in the 14th Amendment.

Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

Unless you have no idea what the word "born" means, it could not be more obvious.

Hahahaha :lamo That's about citizenship.

No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life

liberty, or property, without due process of law;

nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws. ,

Why do you think pro-choice doesn't want to recognize the fetus as a person?

In the end, it's the interpretation of the Supreme Court that may or may not overturn Roe vs Wade.

 

[code1211]

Re: Let's have a real discussion about abortion

I’ve read the entire transcript of the interview, several times, and nowhere in it does Northam propose or support murdering a baby that survives an attempted abortion.

“When we talk about third trimester abortions … it’s done in cases where there may be severe deformities, there may be a fetus that is non-viable,” Northam said. “If a mother is in labor, I can tell you exactly what would happen. The infant would be delivered. The infant would be kept comfortable. The infant would be resuscitated if that’s what the mother and the family desired, and then a discussion would ensue between the physicians and the mother.”

Again, STOP LYING.


Please explain how I have misrepresented your comments.

Don't you realize that you are destroying you own argument with the pull quote you post?

Part of the Roe v Wade Decision is based on the contrived interpretation of the words in the Constitution's 14th Amendment which refer to the definition of a citizen:

14th Amendment | The National Constitution Center

Section 1
All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.
<snip>

Prior to being born, the unborn have no Constitutionally protected rights.

If the child is delivered, as Governor Black Face clearly defines in his imagined scenario, then the child is a US Citizen and automatically possess all of the Constitutionally guaranteed rights and privileges citizens possess.

Among the rights guaranteed by the 14th Amendment is LIFE.

He acknowledges the life of the new born by saying that the baby be "kept comfortable". Do inanimate objects need to be kept comfortable?

 

[tosca1]

Re: Let's have a real discussion about abortion

The idea of a woman having control over her reproduction abilities is tied to liberty of the individual.

That may be how you want to see it. But, it'll be up to the Supreme Court.

 

[vegas giants]

Re: Let's have a real discussion about abortion

That may be how you want to see it. But, it'll be up to the Supreme Court.

It's how scotus currently sees it

 

[marke]

After countless petty arguments that break down into personal attacks in almost every abortion thread, we are long overdue for real, constructive discussions here. That means no matter how you feel about every pregnant citizen's right to have a legal abortion, you must avoid letting emotions rule and totally ignore the facts. Emotions are great, but facts always come first. If your opinions are based on emotions, they are worthless because there are no facts to support them. Yes, I am talking to the anti-choicers here, but pro-choicers have to do their part too. On both sides, the rule is, "If you can't prove it, you're wrong."

With all of that said, let's begin. The United States Constitution is very clear that zygotes, blastocysts, embryos, and fetuses have no rights and all girls and women have the rights to privacy, bodily autonomy, and lifestyle choices. This can't be denied. Also undeniable are the definitions of murder and homicide, which have always been limited to killing born humans for malicious reasons in both English dictionaries and books about law. So the abortion debate is not about if the right to have abortions does exist, but everything else - sociology, biology, maternity, crimes, and personal finance.

The Constitution, unlike deluded abortionists, does not contradict science by claiming fetuses with beating hearts are not human and should not be treated as such.

 

[vegas giants]

The Constitution, unlike deluded abortionists, does not contradict science by claiming fetuses with beating hearts are not human and should not be treated as such.

Opinion noted and dismissed

 

[RaleBulgarian]

Re: Let's have a real discussion about abortion

Don't you realize that you are destroying you own argument with the pull quote you post?

Part of the Roe v Wade Decision is based on the contrived interpretation of the words in the Constitution's 14th Amendment which refer to the definition of a citizen:

14th Amendment | The National Constitution Center

Section 1
All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.
<snip>

Prior to being born, the unborn have no Constitutionally protected rights.

If the child is delivered, as Governor Black Face clearly defines in his imagined scenario, then the child is a US Citizen and automatically possess all of the Constitutionally guaranteed rights and privileges citizens possess.

Among those rights is LIFE.

Your ignorance knows no limit.

Parents have the legal right to make medical decisions for their infant children.

 

[code1211]

Re: Let's have a real discussion about abortion

Yep nothing wrong with that

Are you saying that the abortion described by Governor black Face is NOT POST BIRTH?

 

[vegas giants]

Re: Let's have a real discussion about abortion

Are you saying that the abortion described by Governor black Face is NOT POST BIRTH?

I am saying there is nothing wrong with euthanasia in some circumstances.


This is just euthanasia which we do at any age

 

[code1211]

Re: Let's have a real discussion about abortion

Why are you lying? Northam did not say that at all.

Did you read the pull quote?

He clearly says the baby would be delivered and kept comfortable.

When your dentist pulls your tooth, does he assures that it is kept comfortable?

 

[code1211]

Re: Let's have a real discussion about abortion

Abortion is termination of pregnancy. Once the child is born, there is no pregnancy to terminate.

And nothing was said about ending the life of the child. Stop lying.

You are suffering from an ongoing delusion.

Read the article and listen to the radio interview.