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[W:171]FBI chief Wray refutes Barr, says no 'spying' on Trump campaign

Barnacle said:
Age.

The older guys call it "spying" (as in: "Go and look what he is doing without him knowing that we are snooping around in his private/business life.",

and the younger guys call it "surveillance" (as in: Go and look what he is doing without him knowing we are snooping around his his private/business life."


May 3, 2019 - James Clapper (older guy): "... Clapper admitted that spying had occurred. When asked by Wolf Blitzer whether spying had occurred, Clapper said that “it’s not a term of art used by intelligence people“ but admitted that “I guess it meets the dictionary definition of surveillance or spying, a term I don't particularly like.”

James Clapper backtracks: FBI's actions meet 'dictionary definition of spying'
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Accusers VS. defendants...not age of participants.
 
Athanasius68 said:
Ok-- so what was the probable cause that Donald Trump was conspiring with Russians to fix the election?
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That wasn't the issue. The issue was simply Russian interference into the election through the twump campaign.

You truly have no idea of any of the details of this.
 
Tanngrisnir said:
That wasn't the issue. The issue was simply Russian interference into the election through the twump campaign.

You truly have no idea of any of the details of this.
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So why not tell the Trump campaign their concerns?
 
haymarket said:
That is the way Trump wants it for his Trumpkins.
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Don't you just hate it when idiots edit your posts for no other reason than to change the meaning and then present them as it they have not been edited?
 
Tanngrisnir said:
Please cling to that desperate fantasy. Pretty please?
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You cling to the thought that sending someone with a false identity and cover story to secretly gather information on a unaware person isn’t spying. :lol: Cling to that as hard as you can because that is all you have. :lol:
 
SLC said:
You cling to the thought that sending someone with a false identity and cover story to secretly gather information on a unaware person isn’t spying. :lol: Cling to that as hard as you can because that is all you have. :lol:
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Gathering info on an unaware American by the American gov't, no less....But, it's just the wrong word....:lamo
 
SLC said:
You cling to the thought that sending someone with a false identity and cover story to secretly gather information on a unaware person isn’t spying. :lol: Cling to that as hard as you can because that is all you have. :lol:
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It's fun to watch you desperately cling to that fantasy. You simply cannot demonstrate that anything that was done was illegal.

In this thing that rational, sober adults collectively recognize as 'reality', your 'argument' doesn't exist.
 
code1211 said:
Did Wray say that no spying occurred or that he was distressed by the use of the word spying?
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See, it's a little word game that is being played now. The misleading headline is all about the wording of the activities that took place, not if the activities themselves took place. Whatever you want to call it, it has to be investigated to see if any crimes were committed by the Obama administration.

As it is now, looks like the dossier was used and presented as something it wasn't in order to justify placing operatives in and to watch (not spy!) what the Trump campaign was doing. Was the FISA court mislead? What were the FBI's intentions? Why did they use a document that they knew was unverified and paid opposition research as the basis to get warrants?

I'm sure there is a reasonable explanation.
 
Xelor said:
FBI chief Wray refutes Barr, says no 'spying' on Trump campaign

Last month Bill Barr expressly stated he was of the mind that spying on the Trump campaign occurred:
Barr: "We’re worried about foreign influence in elections ... I think spying on a political campaign — it’s a big deal, it’s a big deal. I’m not suggesting that [rules enacted to ensure there's adequate basis for investigative actions] were violated, but I think it’s important to look at that. I’m not talking about the FBI necessarily, but intelligence agencies more broadly."
Sen. Shaheen: "You’re not suggesting that spying occurred?"
Barr: "I think spying did occur."
(Source)​

Yet later in the same hearing he remarked: "I’m not saying if improper surveillance occurred." (Source) Furthermore, Barr asserted the DoJ is investigating the FBI's investigation of Trump.

Today, Trump's handpicked FBI Director, Chris Wray, declared under oath:
I was very concerned by [Barr's] use of the word spying, which I think is a loaded word," Shaheen said. "When FBI agents conduct investigations against alleged mobsters, suspected terrorists, other criminals, do you believe they're engaging in spying when they're following FBI investigative policies and procedures?"

"That's not the term I would use," Wray said of "spying." "So, I would say that's a no to that question."
-- FBI chief Wray refutes Barr, says no 'spying' on Trump campaign​

So here we are:
  • Trump's handpicked AG says he "thinks" there spying occurred, but fails to identify who (what organization) performed it, but he's not investigating the FBI.
  • Trump's handpicked FBI Dir., in substance, asserts that no FBI surveillance or investigative policy-compliant activities are spying.

So what must one rationally conclude from the above?
  • The AG was taking out of two sides of his mouth.
  • Spying isn't what the FBI does.
  • So-called "spying" occurred, but neither Barr nor Wray has identified who was spied upon and who did the spying.
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So Wray is the darling of the Left now. :lamo You actually are falling for dictionary games. Wray never said spying wasn't going on, he said he wouldn't use that term. He never denied that people were involved in a surveillance operation that Trump wasn't informed of; as Feinstein was.
 
code1211 said:
He seems to dislike the word. He didn't say they did not commit the act.

What does the FBI do when they conduct a Counter Intelligence Operation?

How does a Counter Intelligence Operation differ from spying? How could the FBI NOT employ "spying" when they conduct such an operation?
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It was not a "Counter Intelligence Operation," it was a counterintelligence INVESTIGATION. Words matter.

Spying is a word used to decribe a covert operation with the intention to damage the other party, be that a corporation, organization, nation, or individual. Barr was stupid to use that word for a completely legal and legitimate investigation.
 
Anthony60 said:
Yeah! Just like slavery! Court sanctioned, for decades.
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Exactly, until laws were passed to make it illegal. The investigation into the Trump campaign was totally legal and legitimate, no matter what the right wing snowflakes believe. All you are doing is regurgitating another of Trump's false narratives. He's playing the victim card, nothing more. Please stop helping him.
 
code1211 said:
Don't you just hate it when idiots edit your posts for no other reason than to change the meaning and then present them as it they have not been edited?
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Trumpkins do what you describe all the time.
 
Tanngrisnir said:
Irrelevant. They were informed in August 2016 and did NOTHING. They welcomed the Russian inteference, as the report details.
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Highly relevant. They are citing a specific example. Why not warn them in the spring?
 
Idiometer said:
Exactly, until laws were passed to make it illegal. The investigation into the Trump campaign was totally legal and legitimate, no matter what the right wing snowflakes believe. All you are doing is regurgitating another of Trump's false narratives. He's playing the victim card, nothing more. Please stop helping him.
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Why was it legitimate?
 
MTAtech said:
There you go again, resting your laurels on those pesky things called facts.
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Yes, facts don't work well with those who suffer from Trump Delusion Syndrome. And you have to take care when presenting those facts, so that you don't hurt their widdle feewings and make them run crying to the moderators.

:cry:
 
Idiometer said:
It was not a "Counter Intelligence Operation," it was a counterintelligence INVESTIGATION. Words matter.

Spying is a word used to decribe a covert operation with the intention to damage the other party, be that a corporation, organization, nation, or individual. Barr was stupid to use that word for a completely legal and legitimate investigation.
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Why assume that this wasn't the objective here?
 
code1211 said:
Did Wray say that no spying occurred or that he was distressed by the use of the word spying?
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You frame your question well. Or so it could appear.

The reason is that you already have the answer.

So kindly proceed to advise us. My invitation should not however be construed to imply acceptance of it. I suggest you and I could take it from there thx.
 
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