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Venezuelan scavengers vie with vultures for Brazilian trash

Evilroddy said:
An interesting article here comparing US Government regime-change strategies between modern-day Venezuela and Chile in the early 1970's or African examples.

The 12-Step Method of Regime Change

Step One: Colonialism’s Traps.

Step Two: The Defeat of the New International Economic Order.

Step Three: The Death of Southern Agriculture.

Step Four: Culture of Plunder.

Step Five: Debt as a Way of Life.

Step Six: Public Finances Go to Hell.

Step Seven: Deep Cuts in Social Spending.

Step Eight: Social Distress Leads to Migration.

Step Nine: Who Controls the Narrative?.

Step Ten: Who’s the Real President?.

Step Eleven: Make the Economy Scream.

Step Twelve: Go to War.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.
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At least this is undisguised propaganda.
 
Rogue Valley said:
Fagan uses CounterPunch.

Are you really that desperate?
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Rogue Valley:

Counterpunch is biases but is also rated high on accuracy. That Dave Fagan uses it means nothing. Dave Fagan also uses a computer as you and I do. Does that make computers unreliable conduits of information? No. So as long as readers are aware of Counterpunch's left-leaning bias then that should be sufficient.

CounterPunch - Media Bias/Fact Check

Cheers.
Evilroddy.
 
Here is a follow-on citation from the 2008 US Army UW Manual. This is a November 2010 US Army publication on the same topic which once again correlates nicely with present-day US policy and methods for imposing regime change on Venezuela.

https://info.publicintelligence.net/USArmy-UW.pdf

For commentary on the document see:

U.S. Army Special Forces Unconventional Warfare Training Manual November 2010 | Public Intelligence

The conclusion i draw from this is that the US Government is waging Unconventioal Warfare on Venezuela as outlined in several publications from the US Government (Army and USAID).

Cheers.
Evilroddy.
 
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I'm not saying it's not noteworthy, but this kind of poverty is all over South America, all the time. There are people scavenging and living in landfills all over the place. When I did international development work in Brazil, we worked in a shanty town of particle board on the border of a giant dump. People combed through it at all hours looking for recyclables to sell and edible scraps.

The media only reports on it if it serves a political agenda, in this case attacking socialism. Venezuela is in dire straits but we don't need to sensationalize it.
 
Northern Light said:
I'm not saying it's not noteworthy, but this kind of poverty is all over South America, all the time. There are people scavenging and living in landfills all over the place.
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This thread isn't about whataboutism. It's specifically about Venezuela.
 
Rogue Valley said:
This thread isn't about whataboutism. It's specifically about Venezuela.
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Oh lord, enough already with the "whataboutism". I'm pointing out that Venezuela has always had dumpster divers and Reuters is being sensational, a.k.a bias in the media.
 
Northern Light said:
Oh lord, enough already with the "whataboutism". I'm pointing out that Venezuela has always had dumpster divers and Reuters is being sensational, a.k.a bias in the media.
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Venezuela was once the richest country in Latin America.
 
Jack Hays said:
Venezuela was once the richest country in Latin America.
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Don't stop there. There's more to that story.

Yes it's true, Venezuela was wealthy during its democratic era. The rest of South America fell into dictatorships (mostly ones that the western allies sponsored), and Venezuela stayed afloat because of its vast oil reserves.

Then the price of oil dropped and their economy along with it. They went into debt. They borrowed money from the IMF, who then applied their Structural Adjustment Programs to Venezuela and privatized all of their public utilities and services. When the public got fed up, they put power into the hands of dictators who promised to wrestle authority away from the IMF and back to Venezuela. That led to the situation we're in today.

Desperate people put their power into the hands of dictators. It's what happened in Germany when the western allies sanctioned them. People got fed up and put a maniac in charge.

The IMF has created many situations like this over the years. Venezuela's current situation did not just happen in a vacuum. The IMF and World Bank all contributed to this situation, and those are capitalist/democratic institutions.
 
Northern Light said:
Don't stop there. There's more to that story.

Yes it's true, Venezuela was wealthy during its democratic era. The rest of South America fell into dictatorships (mostly ones that the western allies sponsored), and Venezuela stayed afloat because of its vast oil reserves.

Then the price of oil dropped and their economy along with it. They went into debt. They borrowed money from the IMF, who then applied their Structural Adjustment Programs to Venezuela and privatized all of their public utilities and services. When the public got fed up, they put power into the hands of dictators who promised to wrestle authority away from the IMF and back to Venezuela. That led to the situation we're in today.

Desperate people put their power into the hands of dictators. It's what happened in Germany when the western allies sanctioned them. People got fed up and put a maniac in charge.

The IMF has created many situations like this over the years. Venezuela's current situation did not just happen in a vacuum. The IMF and World Bank all contributed to this situation, and those are capitalist/democratic institutions.
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You forgot a step...

When Chavez then Maduro nationalized all the industries in Venezuela and replaced the people who got things done with lackeys and the military thereby destroying the ability to rebound once oil prices returned.
 
On a side note, why isn't the leader of Venezuela considered a fascist?
 
Northern Light said:
Don't stop there. There's more to that story.

Yes it's true, Venezuela was wealthy during its democratic era. The rest of South America fell into dictatorships (mostly ones that the western allies sponsored), and Venezuela stayed afloat because of its vast oil reserves.

Then the price of oil dropped and their economy along with it. They went into debt. They borrowed money from the IMF, who then applied their Structural Adjustment Programs to Venezuela and privatized all of their public utilities and services. When the public got fed up, they put power into the hands of dictators who promised to wrestle authority away from the IMF and back to Venezuela. That led to the situation we're in today.

Desperate people put their power into the hands of dictators. It's what happened in Germany when the western allies sanctioned them. People got fed up and put a maniac in charge.

The IMF has created many situations like this over the years. Venezuela's current situation did not just happen in a vacuum. The IMF and World Bank all contributed to this situation, and those are capitalist/democratic institutions.
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Hmmm. Interesting rewrite of history.
 
Jack Hays said:
Hmmm. Interesting rewrite of history.
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The same old lame excuses. It's never the dictators fault when his country literally falls apart before the eyes of the world.

It's always something external.
 
Rogue Valley said:
Venezuelan scavengers vie with vultures for Brazilian trash

1555459562937650yKYwd0DvSE.jpg




Quite right. Maduro has literally turned Venezuela's economy into a stinking mess.
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How utterly sad.
Begs the question, do people in other countries scavenge?
 
Jack Hays said:
Hmmm. Interesting rewrite of history.
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Whats your evidence that I'm rewriting history? Feel free to post sources.

Otherwise your accusation is empty, much like your usual posting style.
 
Rogue Valley said:
The same old lame excuses. It's never the dictators fault when his country literally falls apart before the eyes of the world.

It's always something external.
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That's not true. The dictators that come to power do widespread damage.

I'd appreciate it if you stopped trying to frame the way I think and feel about subjects because of your own biases. Just ask next time.
 
Northern Light said:
Whats your evidence that I'm rewriting history? Feel free to post sources.

Otherwise your accusation is empty, much like your usual posting style.
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Sorry, but neither the IMF nor the World Bank bears any responsibility for the corruption and tyranny of the Venezuelan regime. Nor was Hitler's rise a response to economic sanctions.
 
Jack Hays said:
Sorry, but neither the IMF nor the World Bank bears any responsibility for the corruption and tyranny of the Venezuelan regime. Nor was Hitler's rise a response to economic sanctions.
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Nobody is responsible for a person's direct actions. That's not what I'm saying at all.

I'm talking about the factors that create conditions for dictators to rise, and economic inequities are one of them. And yes the IMF and World Bank contributed to that situation in Venezuela. And yes, the Treaty of Versailles and its economic sanctions directly created the angry political environment which contributed to the rise of Hitler. If you don't know that basic historical fact, then I can't help you.

People here are too busy towing the pro or anti socialist line to look at the dynamic variables of history. Reuters takes a picture of people combing through a landfill in Venezuela and people go "poo poo socialism". Your view is too colored by partisan bias.

Sorry, but you're just wrong. :shrug:
 
Northern Light said:
Nobody is responsible for a person's direct actions. That's not what I'm saying at all.

I'm talking about the factors that create conditions for dictators to rise, and economic inequities are one of them. And yes the IMF and World Bank contributed to that situation in Venezuela. And yes, the Treaty of Versailles and its economic sanctions directly created the angry political environment which contributed to the rise of Hitler. If you don't know that basic historical fact, then I can't help you.

People here are too busy towing the pro or anti socialist line to look at the dynamic variables of history. Reuters takes a picture of people combing through a landfill in Venezuela and people go "poo poo socialism". Your view is too colored by partisan bias.

Sorry, but you're just wrong. :shrug:
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You have not cited historical facts. You have cited historical myths created by dictators and their followers to justify their actions.
 
https://www.rand.org/content/dam/rand/pubs/perspectives/PE300/PE304/RAND_PE304.pdf

More corroborating evidence of the structure and methods of US UW in this decade. With the two manuals from the US Army, the USAID document about RED Teams and this Rand Corporation document the multi-branch and wide-spectrum parameters of US UW are aid out. These methods are being observed in Venezuela and countries surrounding Venezuela and are being focused on Venezuela.

Cheers.
Evilroddy
 
Evilroddy said:
https://www.rand.org/content/dam/rand/pubs/perspectives/PE300/PE304/RAND_PE304.pdf

More corroborating evidence of the structure and methods of US UW in this decade. With the two manuals from the US Army, the USAID document about RED Teams and this Rand Corporation document the multi-branch and wide-spectrum parameters of US UW are aid out. These methods are being observed in Venezuela and countries surrounding Venezuela and are being focused on Venezuela.

Cheers.
Evilroddy
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It's a speculative paper. It's not evidence for anything.
 
Northern Light said:
I'm talking about the factors that create conditions for dictators to rise, and economic inequities are one of them. And yes the IMF and World Bank contributed to that situation in Venezuela.
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That's pish posh. Take Ukraine for example. The poorest country in Europe and receiving loan tranche's from the IMF and WB since 2015.

There is no dictatorship there. Ukraine just last week elected a new president. 2,500+ international monitors found very few election irregularities.

Where do you get the notion that financial assistance spawns dictatorships?
 
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