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US in energy landmark as renewables produce more electricity than coal

Jack Hays said:
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[h=1]“New Solar + Battery Price Crushes Fossil Fuels, Buries Nuclear” Until You Do the Math[/h][FONT="][FONT=inherit]Guest Excelling by David Middleton Jul 1, 2019, 12:03amNew Solar + Battery Price Crushes Fossil Fuels, Buries Nuclear Jeff McMahon ContributorGreen TechFrom Chicago, I write about climate change, green technology, energy. Los Angeles Power and Water officials have struck a deal on the largest and cheapest solar + battery-storage project in the world, at prices…[/FONT]
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The energy market have never been a free market. For example the enormous amount of tax money have gone to wage wars and support brutal dictatorships in the Middle East to protect the flow of cheap oil.

Fossil fuel companies also use the power of the government to take over private land for coal mines and oil/gas pipelines.

German Court to Rule on Property Rights in Brown Coal Mining Dispute - SPIEGEL ONLINE

Subsidies to fossil fuels have also for a long time been bigger than subsidies to renewables.

Energy snapshots: Estimates for global fossil-fuel consumption subsidies

Fossil fuel companies also doesn’t pay the social and environmental cost of their products.

https://www.imf.org/en/Publications...Update-Based-on-Country-Level-Estimates-46509

Trump also now wants to spend billions of dollar on propping up unprofitable coal plants.

https://www.economist.com/graphic-d...save-americas-failing-coal-fired-power-plants
 
Bergslagstroll said:
The energy market have never been a free market. For example the enormous amount of tax money have gone to wage wars and support brutal dictatorships in the Middle East to protect the flow of cheap oil.
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I see the liberal indoctrination has affected you in this area as well.

Bergslagstroll said:
Fossil fuel companies also use the power of the government to take over private land for coal mines and oil/gas pipelines.

German Court to Rule on Property Rights in Brown Coal Mining Dispute - SPIEGEL ONLINE
Click to expand...
Imminent Domain is a recognized right of any sovereign domain. The fifth amendment limits it. When something is deemed necessary for society, the government reserves the right to re-purpose it. It isn't just fossil fuel.

Bergslagstroll said:
Subsidies to fossil fuels have also for a long time been bigger than subsidies to renewables.

Energy snapshots: Estimates for global fossil-fuel consumption subsidies
Click to expand...
Words have meaning. Please use the correct ones. There are few, if any subsidies. Can you provide any actual facts? I'll bet not.

Bergslagstroll said:
Fossil fuel companies also doesn’t pay the social and environmental cost of their products.

Global Fossil Fuel Subsidies Remain Large: An Update Based on Country-Level Estimates
Click to expand...
Why do you guys think you are smart linking whole pages of material, without quoting what is relevant.

I consider your use of information overload, a very unethical tactic.

Bergslagstroll said:
Trump also now wants to spend billions of dollar on propping up unprofitable coal plants.

Donald Trump hopes to save America’s failing coal-fired power plants - Daily chart
Click to expand...
Now a page from a liberal agenda driven rag, and again without directing us to important quotes.

Do you think we have nothing better to do than to scour through garbage?
 
Lord of Planar said:
I see the liberal indoctrination has affected you in this area as well.


Imminent Domain is a recognized right of any sovereign domain. The fifth amendment limits it. When something is deemed necessary for society, the government reserves the right to re-purpose it. It isn't just fossil fuel.


Words have meaning. Please use the correct ones. There are few, if any subsidies. Can you provide any actual facts? I'll bet not.


Why do you guys think you are smart linking whole pages of material, without quoting what is relevant.

I consider your use of information overload, a very unethical tactic.


Now a page from a liberal agenda driven rag, and again without directing us to important quotes.

Do you think we have nothing better to do than to scour through garbage?
Click to expand...

You did not take one statement from the actual links, and refute it. Instead you just used one-line snippets. Very unprofesssional.
 
Media_Truth said:
You did not take one statement from the actual links, and refute it. Instead you just used one-line snippets. Very unprofesssional.
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Too much reading.

I wasn't given any quotes to refute. Besides, none of it was peer reviewed papers.

I'm not going to wast my time reading endless material to pick out what you are trying to say.

You have something to say, man up and say it!

What quote is relevant to you?
 
Lord of Planar said:
Too much reading.

I wasn't given any quotes to refute. Besides, none of it was peer reviewed papers.

I'm not going to wast my time reading endless material to pick out what you are trying to say.

You have something to say, man up and say it!

What quote is relevant to you?
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OK, we'll just discount your uneducated gibberish then.
 
Media_Truth said:
OK, we'll just discount your uneducated gibberish then.
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How about we stick to the fact this thread is about the USA. Not Germany or other places.

You are the guys with gibberish. You applaud Germany for their move to green energy, while all along, they are still mining coal to export.

Tell you what.

Select what you think is important from the other three links, and I will respond.

Guess what. I hardly ever read the WUWT links. I look strait for the sources referenced and read them.

Unless you are going to quote some part you think is pertinent, you need to just be content that we see you for the lazy ignorant person you are.
 
Lord of Planar said:
How about we stick to the fact this thread is about the USA. Not Germany or other places.

You are the guys with gibberish. You applaud Germany for their move to green energy, while all along, they are still mining coal to export.

Tell you what.

Select what you think is important from the other three links, and I will respond.

Guess what. I hardly ever read the WUWT links. I look strait for the sources referenced and read them.

Unless you are going to quote some part you think is pertinent, you need to just be content that we see you for the lazy ignorant person you are.
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Fair enough - I thought the last Berg... link was a good one about US policy - about subidies for the failing coal and nuclear industries...

Mr Trump’s plan has been in the making for months. Last September Rick Perry, the energy secretary, asked the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission (FERC), the country’s top electricity regulator, to give billions of dollars in subsidies to coal- and nuclear-power plants that keep 90 days worth of fuel supplies on site. The commission, which includes four members appointed by Mr Trump, rejected the proposal unanimously. Six months later FirstEnergy, a power company in Ohio, asked the Department of Energy to invoke Section 202 of the Federal Power Act—a declaration normally reserved for times of war and other emergencies—to intervene in energy markets to prevent coal and nuclear power plants from shutting down. The firm’s plea fell on deaf ears, and it declared bankruptcy two days later. In May, however, the tide turned, when Mr Perry told members of the House of Representatives that he was considering using the Defense Production Act of 1950 to prop up failing power plants in the name of national security.
 
Bergslagstroll said:
The energy market have never been a free market. For example the enormous amount of tax money have gone to wage wars and support brutal dictatorships in the Middle East to protect the flow of cheap oil.

Fossil fuel companies also use the power of the government to take over private land for coal mines and oil/gas pipelines.

German Court to Rule on Property Rights in Brown Coal Mining Dispute - SPIEGEL ONLINE

Subsidies to fossil fuels have also for a long time been bigger than subsidies to renewables.

Energy snapshots: Estimates for global fossil-fuel consumption subsidies

Fossil fuel companies also doesn’t pay the social and environmental cost of their products.

Global Fossil Fuel Subsidies Remain Large: An Update Based on Country-Level Estimates

Trump also now wants to spend billions of dollar on propping up unprofitable coal plants.

Donald Trump hopes to save America’s failing coal-fired power plants - Daily chart
Click to expand...

A listing of green fantasies.
 
[h=2]50% of Americans don’t want to spend *even one more dollar* on renewables[/h]
[h=3]Who wants to pay more for electricity?[/h]All around the world conservative politicians are afraid to campaign against the cost of renewables. So here comes yet another survey showing a huge voter group sits there unrecognized, invisible, waiting for someone to vote for.
The news from the Center for Climate Change Communication, George Mason University:
[h=3]Who is willing to pay more for renewable energy?[/h]In two recent national surveys of American adults, we asked how much more per month, if anything, people would be willing to pay to get their electricity from 100% renewable sources. Nearly half of Americans (47%) reported that they were willing to pay more, while 50% said $0.
It’s a devastating result. Think about the fantasy they were being asked to put a price on — on offer was the mythical golden goose of “100% renewable energy”. It doesn’t exist (unless you count hydroelectricity). Even so, what was that fantastical creature worth? For half of Americans — nothing. . . .
 
Jack Hays said:
[h=2]50% of Americans don’t want to spend *even one more dollar* on renewables[/h]
[h=3]Who wants to pay more for electricity?[/h]All around the world conservative politicians are afraid to campaign against the cost of renewables. So here comes yet another survey showing a huge voter group sits there unrecognized, invisible, waiting for someone to vote for.
The news from the Center for Climate Change Communication, George Mason University:
[h=3]Who is willing to pay more for renewable energy?[/h]In two recent national surveys of American adults, we asked how much more per month, if anything, people would be willing to pay to get their electricity from 100% renewable sources. Nearly half of Americans (47%) reported that they were willing to pay more, while 50% said $0.
It’s a devastating result. Think about the fantasy they were being asked to put a price on — on offer was the mythical golden goose of “100% renewable energy”. It doesn’t exist (unless you count hydroelectricity). Even so, what was that fantastical creature worth? For half of Americans — nothing. . . .
Click to expand...

It's those coal and nuclear subsidies that get you. They cause the cost of everybody's electricity to go up. Meanwhile, solar PVs, being peak-load producers, hold down the cost for everybody.

Reducing Peak Demand with Solar Energy - Solect Energy

Enter solar energy. Peak periods of electricity use (from air conditioning, fans, etc.) generally occur in the afternoon on hot, sunny days. Coincidentally, this is prime time for solar generation. The contribution of solar energy to the grid during periods of peak demand is significant since, reducing demand on the grid through the addition of clean solar energy can help reduce the likelihood of brownouts and rolling blackouts when temperatures rise.
An increase in solar energy produced during peak periods equals decreased demand on the grid, and decreased demand on the grid means lower costs of energy during peak periods. The reality is that solar has the potential to bring the price of peak energy down for ratepayers across the board.

Next time you get a chance, thank a solar PV customer for holding your costs down, through their private investment.
 
Media_Truth said:
It's those coal and nuclear subsidies that get you. They cause the cost of everybody's electricity to go up. Meanwhile, solar PVs, being peak-load producers, hold down the cost for everybody.

Reducing Peak Demand with Solar Energy - Solect Energy

Enter solar energy. Peak periods of electricity use (from air conditioning, fans, etc.) generally occur in the afternoon on hot, sunny days. Coincidentally, this is prime time for solar generation. The contribution of solar energy to the grid during periods of peak demand is significant since, reducing demand on the grid through the addition of clean solar energy can help reduce the likelihood of brownouts and rolling blackouts when temperatures rise.
An increase in solar energy produced during peak periods equals decreased demand on the grid, and decreased demand on the grid means lower costs of energy during peak periods. The reality is that solar has the potential to bring the price of peak energy down for ratepayers across the board.

Next time you get a chance, thank a solar PV customer for holding your costs down, through their private investment.
Click to expand...

Solar would not exist without subsidies.
 
Jack Hays said:
Solar would not exist without subsidies.
Click to expand...

Over 3 million homes in the US have installed solar PVs. Most of those have been installed since 2010. Obama's incentivization is one of the biggest success stories ever, and America owes him a debt of gratitude, as these homes are holding down electricity costs for all consumers. The industry is alive and well, and providing high-paying jobs throughout America.
 
Media_Truth said:
Over 3 million homes in the US have installed solar PVs. Most of those have been installed since 2010. Obama's incentivization is one of the biggest success stories ever, and America owes him a debt of gratitude, as these homes are holding down electricity costs for all consumers. The industry is alive and well, and providing high-paying jobs throughout America.
Click to expand...

Subsidies.

[FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[h=1]The truth about energy subsidies – solar gets 436 times more than coal[/h][FONT=&quot]The next time some paid troll whines about coal getting government subsidies, and wind and solar being “pure” show them this. From the Washington Times: By Stephen Moore One of Hillary Clinton’s wackier ideas is to build half a billion solar panels — at taxpayer expense. It would be one of the largest corporate welfare…
[/FONT]
October 12, 2016 in Energy, solar power, wind power.
 
Jack Hays said:
Natural gas is replacing coal.
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Natural gas, along with wind and solar. Nuclear is also dying out. It the most overpriced, bureaucratic-laden, long term waste-generating energy on the planet. Talk about subsidies. It requires an entire governmental department - the NRC.
 
Good riddens to COAL and NUCLEAR!!!
 
Lord of Planar said:
I see the liberal indoctrination has affected you in this area as well.


Imminent Domain is a recognized right of any sovereign domain. The fifth amendment limits it. When something is deemed necessary for society, the government reserves the right to re-purpose it. It isn't just fossil fuel.


Words have meaning. Please use the correct ones. There are few, if any subsidies. Can you provide any actual facts? I'll bet not.


Why do you guys think you are smart linking whole pages of material, without quoting what is relevant.

I consider your use of information overload, a very unethical tactic.


Now a page from a liberal agenda driven rag, and again without directing us to important quotes.

Do you think we have nothing better to do than to scour through garbage?
Click to expand...

I backed up the claim that subsidies to fossil fuels have also for a long time been bigger than subsidies to renewables by a direct link to International Energy Agency.

Energy snapshots: Estimates for global fossil-fuel consumption subsidies

I backed up the claim that fossil fuel companies doesn’t pay the social and environmental cost of their products with a direct link to International Monetary Fund. There that cost also is trillions of dollars a year.

Global Fossil Fuel Subsidies Remain Large: An Update Based on Country-Level Estimates

Also even Fox Business report about the billion dollar cost of Trump's bailout to coal and nuclear plants.

Trump energy bailout is coal in taxpayers’ stockings | Fox Business

On top of that you have Trump's deregulation of the coal sector. There even Fox Business report about how it have steep costs like for exampe over manu more premature deaths.

Trump rollbacks for fossil fuel industries carry steep cost | Fox Business

While you have not provided not a single source.
 
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Media_Truth said:
Natural gas, along with wind and solar. Nuclear is also dying out. It the most overpriced, bureaucratic-laden, long term waste-generating energy on the planet. Talk about subsidies. It requires an entire governmental department - the NRC.
Click to expand...

Even Republican politcians are seeing the benefits of renewable energy.

Why Republican Leaders Love Renewable Energy

There you countinue to see a deep decline in cost of renewable energy.

Renewable energy prices have fallen - this is how much | World Economic Forum
 
Media_Truth said:
Good riddens to COAL and NUCLEAR!!!
Click to expand...

I agree with coal, but it would be idiotic for the West to phase out nuclear when it is the safest and most efficient form of energy, moreso than renewables.
 
Bergslagstroll said:
I backed up the claim that subsidies to fossil fuels have also for a long time been bigger than subsidies to renewables by a direct link to International Energy Agency.

Energy snapshots: Estimates for global fossil-fuel consumption subsidies

I backed up the claim that fossil fuel companies doesn’t pay the social and environmental cost of their products with a direct link to International Monetary Fund. There that cost also is trillions of dollars a year.

Global Fossil Fuel Subsidies Remain Large: An Update Based on Country-Level Estimates

Also even Fox Business report about the billion dollar cost of Trump's bailout to coal and nuclear plants.

Trump energy bailout is coal in taxpayers’ stockings | Fox Business

On top of that you have Trump's deregulation of the coal sector. There even Fox Business report about how it have steep costs like for exampe over manu more premature deaths.

Trump rollbacks for fossil fuel industries carry steep cost | Fox Business

While you have not provided not a single source.
Click to expand...

Yet you are too lazy to snip a quote or two that's relevant. That's a clear indication you don't really know the contents, but are just doing a copy and paste.

Seems rather foolish to me.
 
Bergslagstroll said:
Even Republican politcians are seeing the benefits of renewable energy.

Why Republican Leaders Love Renewable Energy

There you countinue to see a deep decline in cost of renewable energy.

Renewable energy prices have fallen - this is how much | World Economic Forum
Click to expand...

Republicans have never, ever scoffed at better ideas. Renewable energy is a great choice in limited usage right now. It will take a long time before it is a better choice for for most our needs.

Right now, it is a very bad choice to push for the expense that it brings. It still needs to come down more in price.
 
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