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Unionized police?

absolutely. the market will never treat police, fire responders, or teachers well without public employee unions. there's a next logical step to that as well. see if you can guess what it is.

Privatized law enforcement, that's what we will wind up with if the current RW trends continue, the perfect partner for private prisons. Forget fighting crime, privatized cops and private prisons need MORE CRIME and MORE CRIMINALS, as many as possible.

If we ever wind up with privatized law enforcement, kiss your ass goodbye.
 
Police unions... what do you think? Makes it almost impossible to fire an officer, but does provide job security and likely better pay and benefits. But also allows officers to be lazy and non-responsive.

Anybody can be fired from their job as long as the employer can prove just cause. I believe all workers should have rights in the workplace should they so desire; having a set of labor rules in the workplace are fair since both sides have to go by what was agreed to and neither side can change the terms and conditions of employment unless the other side agrees to it.

As a rule, union workers make more then their non-union counterparts and have greater job security as well.
 
Where I live - a county 1.5 million residents - the FD is a volunteer organization. They do a pretty good job without paying ANY salaries - though they do pay some kind of retirement benefit.

In most parts of the country, the volunteer fire service is on it's way out; new federal and state training requirements require so much time commitment many volunteers cannot dedicate the time necessary to be a volunteer firefighter since many of them either are working two jobs or long hours in their primary profession all the while attempting to juggle family life as well. More and more volunteer departments each year are converting over to career forces and there is no end in sight.

I know in NY state, volunteers receive pensions, the amount based upon years of active service but I'm not sure if any other state has this program. Even with the pension program, NY volunteers continue to shrink every year, just not as fast as other area's of the country.
 
Privatized law enforcement, that's what we will wind up with if the current RW trends continue, the perfect partner for private prisons. Forget fighting crime, privatized cops and private prisons need MORE CRIME and MORE CRIMINALS, as many as possible.

If we ever wind up with privatized law enforcement, kiss your ass goodbye.

i don't support privatizing law enforcement.
 
In most parts of the country, the volunteer fire service is on it's way out; new federal and state training requirements require so much time commitment many volunteers cannot dedicate the time necessary to be a volunteer firefighter since many of them either are working two jobs or long hours in their primary profession all the while attempting to juggle family life as well. More and more volunteer departments each year are converting over to career forces and there is no end in sight.

I know in NY state, volunteers receive pensions, the amount based upon years of active service but I'm not sure if any other state has this program. Even with the pension program, NY volunteers continue to shrink every year, just not as fast as other area's of the country.

Didn’t know that. Thx. As well, at least here, some people may use volunteer service as a stepping stone to careers in the FD. One of my son’s friends was in our local company while waiting to see if the FDNY would accept him. He was finally hired by them a couple of years ago.
 
Same for military? If not, why not? Same issues. Same risks. Actually, far worse risks.

Tho at times the police appear similar to military, the differences are massive. Police must be prepared for combat often rare and never experienced, however their roles on an everyday basis are maintaining of peace, resolution of conflicts by other means, enforcement of societal structural laws, assistance of others when needed, rescuing of people and animals from dangerous situations, first responders to interruptive horrors, and living with much more consistent stress as police always interact with the public. Most police serve for 15-20 years, a career.

The military, tho it may occasionally function as first responders, law enforcers, as in the case of National Guard units, is mostly segregate from the pubic, with the single role of combat and combat support as its raison d'être, with stress from those moments of combat and simulated combat as part of preparedness. The worst enemy for soldiers, boredom and repetitive tasks. Most soldiers serve 3-5 years, then move on to other careers, and the relative few who maintain military service careers tend to live very relatively unstressed lives. Some may argue an enclosed and separate socialist environment. An army cannot function with two leaders in contention. Which at times, is what a union representation comes to. The Russians learned, political officers usually got in the way of combat officers, and sustained much higher death rates during times of combat, early in combat actions, and not because they committed brave acts. As well, the roles of union representatives among military has been naturally coopted by NCO's whose job is to somewhat nurture the men for which they have responsibility.

The risks, other than maiming, injury and death during high stress moments, are not the same, and far less for military personnel. Both psychologically and physically. Especially today, where military personnel is not viewed as cannon fodder, and police are targeted daily.
 
Didn’t know that. Thx. As well, at least here, some people may use volunteer service as a stepping stone to careers in the FD. One of my son’s friends was in our local company while waiting to see if the FDNY would accept him. He was finally hired by them a couple of years ago.

Same here; my son was a volunteer in NY; then got on the job down in SC. Since he had a good background in the fire service, it made going through the fire academy very easy for him.
 
Police unions... what do you think? Makes it almost impossible to fire an officer, but does provide job security and likely better pay and benefits. But also allows officers to be lazy and non-responsive.

All public unions should be abolished. Their existence subverts democracy.
 
absolutely. the market will never treat police, fire responders, or teachers well without public employee unions. there's a next logical step to that as well. see if you can guess what it is.

Public services are not in the "market." They are paid for by taxpayers, and it is those taxpayers/voters who should be determining the rate at which they pay for those public services, not unions. Public sector unions subvert the will of the people, making themselves more important than the actual voters. All public sector unions should be abolished.
 
Public services are not in the "market." They are paid for by taxpayers, and it is those taxpayers/voters who should be determining the rate at which they pay for those public services, not unions. Public sector unions subvert the will of the people, making themselves more important than the actual voters. All public sector unions should be abolished.

Cops are citizens. All citizens should have the same right to organize unless you hate freedom
 
That is the death of freedom and birth of tyranny

Just the opposite actually. Public sector unions blackmail voters with their illegal strikes, demanding more than voters are willing to provide. All unions, by definition, are tyrannical and heavily steeped in communism. The only reason they exist at all is because of the First Amendment.
 
Cops are citizens. All citizens should have the same right to organize unless you hate freedom

No, they shouldn't. When it comes to government, it is the voters who are the ones that get to make the decision, not the communist unions.
 
Just the opposite actually. Public sector unions blackmail voters with their illegal strikes, demanding more than voters are willing to provide. All unions, by definition, are tyrannical and heavily steeped in communism. The only reason they exist at all is because of the First Amendment.

Voters have recourse. Vote out public officials that dont strike fair deals.

Checks and balance
 
No, they shouldn't. When it comes to government, it is the voters are the ones who get to make the decision, not the communist unions.

The voters do. Should voters make every decision for government? Why have elected officials?
 
Public services are not in the "market." They are paid for by taxpayers, and it is those taxpayers/voters who should be determining the rate at which they pay for those public services, not unions. Public sector unions subvert the will of the people, making themselves more important than the actual voters. All public sector unions should be abolished.

those who sell their essential services have a right to representation. we all benefit from that, too.
 
Public services are not in the "market." They are paid for by taxpayers, and it is those taxpayers/voters who should be determining the rate at which they pay for those public services, not unions. Public sector unions subvert the will of the people, making themselves more important than the actual voters. All public sector unions should be abolished.

Tell that to the sanitation worker who picks up your trash, or used to pick up your trash. Publicly employed sanitation workers also vote and pay taxes.
 
Cops are citizens. All citizens should have the same right to organize unless you hate freedom

It’s not a matter of hating freedom as much as public service unions being on both sides of the bargaining table.

All unions contribute heavily to political campaigns including public service unions. Nothing good happens for the taxpayer when the police union gives tons of money the mayor’s political campaign.
 
It’s not a matter of hating freedom as much as public service unions being on both sides of the bargaining table.

All unions contribute heavily to political campaigns including public service unions. Nothing good happens for the taxpayer when the police union gives tons of money the mayor’s political campaign.

Wait.....companies contribute heavily to political campaigns too. How about you fix that first
 
Wait.....companies contribute heavily to political campaigns too. How about you fix that first

When a public service union sits down to negotiate it is sitting down to negotiate with the same people it’s given money - sometimes lots of money - to. That is a obvious conflict of interest.

Private companies lobbying politicians is not in the same ballpark.
 
When a public service union sits down to negotiate it is sitting down to negotiate with the same people it’s given money - sometimes lots of money - to. That is a obvious conflict of interest.

Private companies lobbying politicians is not in the same ballpark.

When a politician is making laws that affect corporations he is making laws that directly impact the companies that give him money.

Fix that first
 
So can the private sector itself. So unions must be on par with them. I tire of this old Virginia byrdesque worship of oligarchs.

The private sector has so much power that employees are all but crushed without unions.

Come back down to reality for a moment.

There are major differences between private sector unions and public sector unions. Let me know when you are ready to really discuss this.
 
When a politician is making laws that affect corporations he is making laws that directly impact the companies that give him money.

Fix that first

There’s no guarantee of that since lots of people with competing interests give politicians money. For every company that gets what it wants there are others that don’t.

With a public service union that isn’t the case.

I take it though that you do see the problem since you’re saying we should fix the corporation “problem” first.
 
There’s no guarantee of that since lots of people with competing interests give politicians money. For every company that gets what it wants there are others that don’t.

With a public service union that isn’t the case.

I take it though that you do see the problem since you’re saying we should fix the corporation “problem” first.

It is the exact same thing. The exact same thing. It is a conflict of interest you have no problem with.

Fix that first and get back to.me about public unions.

The public has a check on public unions.....the ballot
 
those who sell their essential services have a right to representation. we all benefit from that, too.

If that is the case then the choice you have is either a democracy or a tyrannical union oligarchy. Because you can't have both.
 
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