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Try to look at Islam academically.

I have no problems with VALID criticisms of Islam. What I have a problem with is repeated incursions into conspiracy theory. Islam is not more or less inherently violent than Judaism / Christianity and just about any other religion or social / national grouping.

I am never made the claim that it's more or less inherently violent it's just words in a book that can't be violent. It incites more violence as a culture and a practice.

When you're justified in slaying a nine-year-old because they're queer, by your God your religion incites violence.

That's not a conspiracy theory that is a cold hard fact.
 
I have no problems with VALID criticisms of Islam. What I have a problem with is repeated incursions into conspiracy theory.

Apparently you do. All I ever do is criticize Islam based on what it teaches. NEVER have I ventured into "All-Muzzies-are-terrorists" land. Not once.

Islam is not more or less inherently violent than Judaism / Christianity and just about any other religion or social / national grouping.

That is simply wrong. Islam starts with the bible, then adds explicit calls to fight until "all belief is for Allah". The first 12 years of Islam consisted of Mohamed repeating OT stories and warnings ad nauseam. He claimed to also believe "the scriptures" of the Christians (the NT), but he denied the very essence of it by declaring in no uncertain terms that Jesus was NOT the son of God.

After the hijrah, Muslims were informed, out of the blue, that they were now expected to fight. Twelve years in Mecca, and not once did Mohamed even hint that Muslims would have to fight. That change happened over night when it suited him.
 
Apparently you do. All I ever do is criticize Islam based on what it teaches. NEVER have I ventured into "All-Muzzies-are-terrorists" land. Not once.



That is simply wrong. Islam starts with the bible, then adds explicit calls to fight until "all belief is for Allah". The first 12 years of Islam consisted of Mohamed repeating OT stories and warnings ad nauseam. He claimed to also believe "the scriptures" of the Christians (the NT), but he denied the very essence of it by declaring in no uncertain terms that Jesus was NOT the son of God.

After the hijrah, Muslims were informed, out of the blue, that they were now expected to fight. Twelve years in Mecca, and not once did Mohamed even hint that Muslims would have to fight. That change happened over night when it suited him.

Christians also have a jihad.. I wouldn’t even be shocked if jihad is specifically how you say Armageddon in Arabic.

You know where Jesus is supposed to lead all the believers in battle to kill all the unbelievers....



I’m not even sure if Mohammad is supposed to personally lead the slaughter of unbelievers as Jesus is.




ANY time you have a book as long as the Bible or Koran with the full range of teachings from relatively decent to down right horrific, your gonna have some idiots choose to follow the horrific parts?!?!


If you don’t want that to happen, then remove the parts that tell people to do horrific things?!?

Lol

Doesn’t seem like rocket science to me...

It is just funny every religion in the world thanks that is a perfectly good idea for everyone BUT their personal flavor of religion..


Religions are just the biggest hypocrites and scam artists on the planet...


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Christians also have a jihad.. I wouldn’t even be shocked if jihad is specifically how you say Armageddon in Arabic.

You know where Jesus is supposed to lead all the believers in battle to kill all the unbelievers....



I’m not even sure if Mohammad is supposed to personally lead the slaughter of unbelievers as Jesus is.




ANY time you have a book as long as the Bible or Koran with the full range of teachings from relatively decent to down right horrific, your gonna have some idiots choose to follow the horrific parts?!?!


If you don’t want that to happen, then remove the parts that tell people to do horrific things?!?

Lol

Doesn’t seem like rocket science to me...

It is just funny every religion in the world thanks that is a perfectly good idea for everyone BUT their personal flavor of religion..


Religions are just the biggest hypocrites and scam artists on the planet...


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That is a lie...Jesus needs no help from his followers...the final war belongs to him and his army of angels, no one else...Revelation 19:11-21...
 
That is a lie...Jesus needs no help from his followers...the final war belongs to him and his army of angels, no one else...Revelation 19:11-21...

Ok fair enough...

All the believers will stand behind Jesus and swords will shoot out of his mouth slaying all the unbelievers..

So how is that better than a jihad??

Ya’ll are supposed to wait for Jesus’s return before killing everyone???

Doubt that the unbelievers being slaughtered would agree with you there is a distinction..


Those going on crusades, burning witches and far more recently forcing conversions in third world countries.. they all sure saw no need to wait for Jesus to take up arms..


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Ok fair enough...

All the believers will stand behind Jesus and swords will shoot out of his mouth slaying all the unbelievers..

So how is that better than a jihad??

Ya’ll are supposed to wait for Jesus’s return before killing everyone???

Doubt that the unbelievers being slaughtered would agree with you there is a distinction..


Those going on crusades, burning witches and far more recently forcing conversions in third world countries.. they all sure saw no need to wait for Jesus to take up arms..


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We are waiting on Jehovah God and Jesus Christ to act...they will do the cleansing of the earth of all wickedness...ones who take matters into their own hands put little, if any faith in the One whom they serve...that is the difference...
 
We are waiting on Jehovah God and Jesus Christ to act...they will do the cleansing of the earth of all wickedness...ones who take matters into their own hands put little, if any faith in the One whom they serve...that is the difference...
I think your forgetting that not believing in the Christian god is “wicked”.. the exact same justification Islamic terrorists use..

Aka an exact 1 to 1 copy of jihad.. it is just that your team plans on using nukes or the equivalent of..

Why??

Because Islam copied Christianity when it was designed.. ridiculously more than either copied Judaism..


Thank you for being honest at least.


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This is getting boring, but here it is one more time.

Yes, there are Christians that behave horribly. There are Muslims who behave horribly. Is there a difference?
Nope.

In both cases, those people cite their religious beliefs as motivation, justification and/or rationalization to perform acts that today we classify as wrong.

In both cases, religious institutions either directly committed acts we classify today as wrong, or provided support for leaders who committed the acts we classify today as wrong.

In both cases, social forces unrelated to religion often encourage violence and other attitudes and acts we classify today as wrong. Religion is often recruited to bolster those choices, rather than the motivator.

If you traveled back in time and told various Popes or Cardinals or Kings or feudal lords that "religious freedom is important, and everyone should be allowed to choose their own religion," you'd be tortured for heresy -- and those torturing you absolutely cite scripture in defense of their actions. People have cited Christian teachings to defend slavery, segregation, anti-semitism, torture, invasions, genocide and more. There are even people today who would gladly kill lots of Muslims in the name of Christ and his teachings.

I.e. your proclamation that "those people were not following Christ" is, to put it mildly, debatable -- if not downright presumptuous.

In turn, there are lots of Muslim scholars who will gladly explain to you how and why they see Islam as a religion of peace, and that you are deliberately misinterpreting the Quran, and only reading what you want to read -- while ignoring what you don't want to see in your own canonical texts. Even the term "Islam" itself is derived from the Arabic word for "peace."

And again, your attempt to suggest that Islam has all the sins of Judaism and Christianity and then some is irrational. E.g. If the teaching of Jesus is peace, then that is also transitive to Islam.

And again, the purpose of an academic approach is not to put a hit on a religion you dislike. It's to understand the religion on its own terms.
 
First, there are about 1.5 billion Muslims.

But, much more importantly, I want to address the whole 'peaceful vast majority' issue by using Pakistan as an example. In the last election, the leading candidate affirmed his support for applying the death penalty for 'insulting Islam'. And he wasn't even the most radical candidate. He got about 18 million votes. Now, can you honestly say those people are 'living in peace'?
Yes.

I don't support blasphemy laws at all. However, Pakistan didn't declare war on the entire non-Muslim world. They haven't invaded India, despite decades of hostility over Jammu and Kashmir, including when Modi recently clamped down on that region. Pakistan has had nuclear warheads for over 20 years, and hasn't used them.

More importantly, blasphemy laws are hardly unprecedented; they were common in Christian nations until quite recently.

Oh, and let's not forget that Christians are bombing Muslims on a pretty regular basis. That doesn't sound particularly peaceful to me.

You're condemning nearly 2 billion people because of one extreme and rarely-used law, which is not much different than what Christians used to do. Yet again, you are clearly not adopting an "academic" view, you're just hunting for excuses to attack Islam, while ignoring similar behavior by your own group.


That just doesn't hold water. The number of Muslims who willingly and happily die for the cause are doing so to get into heaven. People who drive suicide cars full of explosives to kill themselves and the 'wrong' Muslims are NOT politically motivated. It just makes no sense.
sigh

There are very few suicide bombings. They get attention because they're suicide attacks -- that's why groups do them -- but numerically they are very small.

More importantly, Muslims don't have a monopoly on suicide attacks.

For example, the infamous Kamikaze units were not Muslims. The Tamil Tigers (Sri Lankan nationalists, non-religious, but almost all Hindus) routinely engaged in suicide bombings. Different groups have used this tactic throughout history -- Russian anti-Tsar forces; Chinese suicide squads in the first half of the 20th century; Luftwaffe self-sacrifice missions.... Suicide attacks are a tactic, not a religious rite.

In fact, suicide bombings are usually a response by a dominated group to an overwhelming occupier. It's a type of asymmetric warfare that has a political goal -- e.g. "end Japanese occupation," "get the US out of Afghanistan" and so on. It's used (again) to get attention, and to signals the depth of commitment by followers to a cause. Religion is often a justification, not the primary motivation.

In fact, if you want to get *COUGH* academic about it, there is a lot of research into the psychology and sociology of violent insurgencies and extremist movements -- and it's not about the religion, it's all about social identity theory. JM Berger's Extremism is a good place to start.
 
Your words. Correct. That's exactly what I do.
Uh, no. Clearly it isn't, because all you're doing is cherry-picking negative aspects, and piling on. You deliberately ignore how the overwhelming majority of Muslims are not at war, while inventing excuses to give Christians a pass.
 
Uh, no. Clearly it isn't, because all you're doing is cherry-picking negative aspects, and piling on. You deliberately ignore how the overwhelming majority of Muslims are not at war, while inventing excuses to give Christians a pass.

Cherry picking - 1 point.
Whataboutism - 1 point.
Peaceful vast majority - 1 point.

I'm sorry but you lost 5 whole points by not including "out of context". How could you miss that? And "which hate site did you get that from" was another 3 points lost. "I know lots of Muslims and none of them are trying to kill me" loses you another point. But, thanks for playing Obligatory and Gratuitous Denials. Here's your parting gift.
 
Uh, no. Clearly it isn't, because all you're doing is cherry-picking negative aspects, and piling on. You deliberately ignore how the overwhelming majority of Muslims are not at war, while inventing excuses to give Christians a pass.

He just hates muslims. He doesnt let facts get in the way of that
 
Cherry picking - 1 point.
Whataboutism - 1 point.
Peaceful vast majority - 1 point.

I'm sorry but you lost 5 whole points by not including "out of context".
3 = 5 ? Nice.

Plus, you lose "4 whole points" by not actually making an argument.


And "which hate site did you get that from" was another 3 points lost.
I guess you lose another "3 whole points" by not actually addressing my points at all, because I said nothing of the sort.


"I know lots of Muslims and none of them are trying to kill me" loses you another point.
Again, no idea what you're saying, because I said nothing of the sort. I know almost none of the 1.8 billion Muslims on the planet, nor did I say anything like that. I'm pointing out that the overwhelming majority of those Muslims are not, in fact, waging war on non-Muslims around the world.
 
3 = 5 ? Nice.

Plus, you lose "4 whole points" by not actually making an argument.



I guess you lose another "3 whole points" by not actually addressing my points at all, because I said nothing of the sort.



Again, no idea what you're saying, because I said nothing of the sort. I know almost none of the 1.8 billion Muslims on the planet, nor did I say anything like that. I'm pointing out that the overwhelming majority of those Muslims are not, in fact, waging war on non-Muslims around the world.

You made the utterly fatuous "cherry picking" claim, and I'm simply pointing out that it alone falls well short of the other equally fatuous claims that others have used, and continue to use.

You're the one who thinks people who vote for the death penalty for insulting Islam are living in peace, so excuse me if I don't put much stock in what you have to say. My argument against Islam centers around what it teaches in the Qur'an, coupled with real world examples of how those teaching are being obeyed. Hence Islam teaches terrorism because it just does. The words in the Qur'an mean what they mean. You can't change that. The "peaceful vast majority" argument is not only debatable, but meaningless in the face of the degree of obedience that does exist.
 
Uh, no. Clearly it isn't, because all you're doing is cherry-picking negative aspects, and piling on. You deliberately ignore how the overwhelming majority of Muslims are not at war, while inventing excuses to give Christians a pass.

I didn't see him giving Christians, or any other religion a pass for anything.
Must be your imagination.

There is no "cherry picking" in Islamic doctrine, unless of course you are going to say good things about Muhammed.
They do exist, but are very difficult to find.

The "ounce of goodness", does not outweigh,
The mountain of evil.
 
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