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Try to look at Islam academically.

vegas giants said:
Christian's killed for centuries following the words of the Christian God
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Lies...they killed because they wanted to...it was politics...control...had nothing to do with God...
 
roguenuke said:
Uganda, a Christian country, has a law that puts gays to death. Based on words that absolutely come from the Bible. Witches were put to death based on words in the Bible. Nothing in the Bible actually changed those words, only interpretation of or rather adding personal beliefs to the Bible.
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Very good point!

So if you "follow the Bible", you put gays and witches to death.
Do JW people excuse all this?
 
stevecanuck said:
You mean other than that the first 2/3 of the Qur'an is almost nothing but OT stories?
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Why use stories? Why not use the OT?


Oh....because he didn't believe in the OT
 
Visbek said:
You can start by looking at what the VAST majority of Muslims are doing today, which is leading peaceful lives. There are almost a billion Muslims in the world, and only a tiny handful are engaged in violence --
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First, there are about 1.5 billion Muslims.

But, much more importantly, I want to address the whole 'peaceful vast majority' issue by using Pakistan as an example. In the last election, the leading candidate affirmed his support for applying the death penalty for 'insulting Islam'. And he wasn't even the most radical candidate. He got about 18 million votes. Now, can you honestly say those people are 'living in peace'? I sure as hell don't think so.

and it's actually almost all political violence, where religion is primarily a proxy.
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That just doesn't hold water. The number of Muslims who willingly and happily die for the cause are doing so to get into heaven. People who drive suicide cars full of explosives to kill themselves and the 'wrong' Muslims are NOT politically motivated. It just makes no sense.
 
stevecanuck said:
First, there are about 1.5 billion Muslims.

But, much more importantly, I want to address the whole 'peaceful vast majority' issue by using Pakistan as an example. In the last election, the leading candidate affirmed his support for applying the death penalty for 'insulting Islam'. And he wasn't even the most radical candidate. He got about 18 million votes. Now, can you honestly say those people are 'living in peace'? I sure as hell don't think so.



That just doesn't hold water. The number of Muslims who willingly and happily die for the cause are doing so to get into heaven. People who drive suicide cars full of explosives to kill themselves and the 'wrong' Muslims are NOT politically motivated. It just makes no sense.
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Muslims live in peace in Pakistan too.
 
vegas giants said:
Muslims live in peace in Pakistan too.
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Just to be clear, are you saying that voting for people who promise to imprison and/or execute people for 'insulting' their religion is living in peace?

(P.S. The absolute last thing I'm expecting is a straight answer. Why start now?)
 
stevecanuck said:
Just to be clear, are you saying that voting for people who promise to imprison and/or execute people for 'insulting' their religion is living in peace?

(P.S. The absolute last thing I'm expecting is a straight answer. Why start now?)
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You (Americans) regularly vote for candidates that feel free to invade other countries under false pretences. You lot have no moral high ground here.

There's a crack in everything, that's how the light gets in.
 
Kiwimac said:
You (Americans) regularly vote for candidates that feel free to invade other countries under false pretences. You lot have no moral high ground here.

There's a crack in everything, that's how the light gets in.
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A. Just more whataboutism.

B. Look up 'canuck', and get back to us.
 
stevecanuck said:
The most difficult aspect of judging Islam solely on what it teaches is doing so without seeming to defame Muslims as a whole. When I quote the verses that, for example, explicitly tell Muslims to fight Infidels in order to establish Islamic rule, I'm invariably accused of saying All Muslims are terrorists, and things deteriorate from there.

So, I propose you try to treat the subject as though you are in school studying long-dead religions. Try to imagine that Islam died out centuries ago, and that you're simply studying it as an academic exercise. Just look at what the Qur'an and hadiths say coupled with early Islamic history. That will allow you to separate cold, hard fact from the emotional baggage of having Muslim friends, neighbours, and coworkers with whom you get along just fine.
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I always seem to get whataboutism. The Bible says this Deuteronomy says that. And I don't understand why I'm not criticizing Islam compared to Christianity. I'm criticizing Islam compared to modern cultures.

And they will say what about Uganda or Ethiopia. This is just more whataboutism. And then of course you know you get the things that criticizing a belief means criticizing all people that adhere to the religion that contains that belief.

This is a red herring. I'm sure everybody knows Muslims I know quite a few. I don't think they're terrorists I think part of their book whether they follow that or not is wrong. Just like I think parts of the Bible is wrong, I'm not criticizing all Christians. Nobody will ever make that red herring.

I can't think of a reason why people wouldn't want to try and divert criticism of Islam. I don't know what's so sacred about it other than trying to establish a voting demographic
 
CLAX1911 said:
I always seem to get whataboutism. The Bible says this Deuteronomy says that. And I don't understand why I'm not criticizing Islam compared to Christianity. I'm criticizing Islam compared to modern cultures.

And they will say what about Uganda or Ethiopia. This is just more whataboutism. And then of course you know you get the things that criticizing a belief means criticizing all people that adhere to the religion that contains that belief.

This is a red herring. I'm sure everybody knows Muslims I know quite a few. I don't think they're terrorists I think part of their book whether they follow that or not is wrong. Just like I think parts of the Bible is wrong, I'm not criticizing all Christians. Nobody will ever make that red herring.

I can't think of a reason why people wouldn't want to try and divert criticism of Islam. I don't know what's so sacred about it other than trying to establish a voting demographic
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I have no problems with VALID criticisms of Islam. What I have a problem with is repeated incursions into conspiracy theory. Islam is not more or less inherently violent than Judaism / Christianity and just about any other religion or social / national grouping.
 
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