Trumpo Top Bracket -33%- starts at $112,500

[Moderate Right]

And since the start of the Great Recession, lending by banks to "start ups" has declined, while lending by banks to multi-million dollar businesses has increased. So your original claim from three posts ago...



...is uninformed.

Now you are combining all startups into one and combining several years. Of course startups declined during the Great Recession. Your great president, Barack Obama, go us out of the Great Recession. Did you forget that? We're talking about recent history, not past history and we're talking about manufacturing, not all startups. Yes, banks are lending to multi-million dollar businesses because they are the ones who do manufacturing and they are the ones providing high paying jobs. You don't borrow $50,000 to startup a multi-million dollar manufacturing business. You just proved my point!

 

[Incisor]

I'm just stating the truth. Both parties were too busy passing national pizza days and let jobs leave. Trump doesn't give a **** about national pizza days and wants to bring jobs back to America. That's why Hillary lost. All she could do, like you, is say, "That's just the new economy".

No, you're stating your opinion as fact. No one is letting these companies go...they are going on their own because the cost of labor is so much cheaper in Third World Nations. When it comes down to it, you guys have no idea about the jobs you want to bring back. They aren't coming back. If they do come back, they will be done by robots. You have to let go of this idealized 1950's era thinking. This is the new economy, whether you want to accept it or not. If you choose not to accept it, then you will fall further behind. That's what happened to the people in those blue states Trump won...they refused to accept the changing economy and are now suffering because of that choice of theirs. They're going to be in for a major disappointment when those factories don't open, and the ones that do are staffed by robots. So we need to shift our economic focus to things like health care, tech, and service industry jobs. That's the present and future.

 

[chuckiechan]

I'm a bit suspicious of this report. $100K in deductions? Everyone's taxes going up? And no "on the record" quotes or named sourcing as to what is actually being considered?

I smell a load of BS, and I'm not ready to comment until a tax plan is on the table.

 

[Incisor]

Now you are combining all startups into one and combining several years.

I'm just using the facts with regard to business lending by banks. You made a claim that was false, I pointed out how it was false. It's not that banks aren't lending to small and micro/start-up businesses at all, they're just lending less than they were prior to the Great Bush Recession. But they are lending more to multi-million dollar businesses. That's why I posted that chart. To show you that despite what you may think, lending for start-ups has declined while lending to multi-million dollar companies has increased. Tinkerbelle, are you now going to say that words don't mean what they mean?

We're talking about recent history, not past history and we're talking about manufacturing, not all startups.

You're gonna need to cite your sources here, because I can't find anything to back up your claims. And 2013 is recent history. It was only 4 years ago.

Yes, banks are lending to multi-million dollar businesses because they are the ones who do manufacturing and they are the ones providing high paying jobs.

But you just said they weren't! You're talking in circles. "Banks aren't handing out multi-million dollar loans willy-nilly", (Incisor posts chart showing small business and start-up business lending has declined, but large business loans have increased), "Banks are lending to multi-million dollar businesses because they do the manufacturing", but then you say that there are all these new manufacturing start ups (without a source). And $20/hr isn't a "high-paying" job. $20/hr is about $40K/yr. The national median income is $53K/yr. Facts.

 

[Visbek]

Well considering Trump isn't really a conservative.. that's a question you have to ask him and Bernie Sanders.

Trade wars = less tourism? Show me the numbers because I don't buy it.

Trump's travel EO apparently dinged tourism by 17%. It went back up a little bit to 10% after it was overturned.

Trump?s Policies Have Already Taken a Toll on the Economy

I seriously doubt that tourism is only about exchange rates. Aside from basic factors like safety, language access, general friendliness, tourist attractions and retail, people can certainly react to broader conditions. Nor does the US have a monopoly on nationalism.

For example: President Xi of China declared 2016 as "Chinese-US Tourism Year," and Chinese tourists spend close to $3 billion a year now in the US. Chinese citizens are generally very nationalistic, though, so if Trump continues to offend or insult China, it is unlikely they will choose to travel to the US.

Heck, our own legislators insisted on renaming "French Toast" as "Freedom Toast" when they were mad at France for not allowing Fly-Overs during the invasion of Iraq!

Sometimes people do make decisions based on factors like exchange rates (and airline prices). However, tourism is also an emotional decision, and if the leader of a nation you want to visit is giving your entire nation the middle finger? You might think twice about traveling there.

 

[Moderate Right]

No, you're stating your opinion as fact. No one is letting these companies go...they are going on their own because the cost of labor is so much cheaper in Third World Nations. When it comes down to it, you guys have no idea about the jobs you want to bring back. They aren't coming back. If they do come back, they will be done by robots. You have to let go of this idealized 1950's era thinking. This is the new economy, whether you want to accept it or not. If you choose not to accept it, then you will fall further behind. That's what happened to the people in those blue states Trump won...they refused to accept the changing economy and are now suffering because of that choice of theirs. They're going to be in for a major disappointment when those factories don't open, and the ones that do are staffed by robots. So we need to shift our economic focus to things like health care, tech, and service industry jobs. That's the present and future.

So, you are saying that both parties are trying to stop manufacturing jobs from leaving the country? That's not opinion. It is fact.

 

[Critter7r]

Now you are combining all startups into one and combining several years. Of course startups declined during the Great Recession. Your great president, Barack Obama, go us out of the Great Recession. Did you forget that? We're talking about recent history, not past history and we're talking about manufacturing, not all startups. Yes, banks are lending to multi-million dollar businesses because they are the ones who do manufacturing and they are the ones providing high paying jobs. You don't borrow $50,000 to startup a multi-million dollar manufacturing business. You just proved my point!

That's a really odd response, considering that just 4 posts back you posted, "a startup is a startup is a startup".

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[Moderate Right]

I'm just using the facts with regard to business lending by banks. You made a claim that was false, I pointed out how it was false. It's not that banks aren't lending to small and micro/start-up businesses at all, they're just lending less than they were prior to the Great Bush Recession. But they are lending more to multi-million dollar businesses. That's why I posted that chart. To show you that despite what you may think, lending for start-ups has declined while lending to multi-million dollar companies has increased. Tinkerbelle, are you now going to say that words don't mean what they mean?




You're gonna need to cite your sources here, because I can't find anything to back up your claims. And 2013 is recent history. It was only 4 years ago.




But you just said they weren't! You're talking in circles. "Banks aren't handing out multi-million dollar loans willy-nilly", (Incisor posts chart showing small business and start-up business lending has declined, but large business loans have increased), "Banks are lending to multi-million dollar businesses because they do the manufacturing", but then you say that there are all these new manufacturing start ups (without a source). And $20/hr isn't a "high-paying" job. $20/hr is about $40K/yr. The national median income is $53K/yr. Facts.

You're just stating cherry picked facts, yet again. Makes it look better when you can cherry pick facts over the last ten years rather than presenting facts over just the last year or two.

 

[Moderate Right]

That's a really odd response, considering that just 4 posts back you posted, "a startup is a startup is a startup".

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You need to read the context of the exchanges but you would rather just cherry pick soundbites literally.

 

[Incisor]

So, you are saying that both parties are trying to stop manufacturing jobs from leaving the country? That's not opinion. It is fact.

There is nothing we can do about jobs being shipped overseas or becoming automated. That is the consequence of a global economy and technology. I don't understand from where this fascination with manufacturing jobs comes. Those jobs sucked. They were physically grating. They didn't pay that well; $20/hr is the average manufacturing wage today...that comes to $41,600 a year before taxes...the national median income is $53,000. So those jobs you want to bring back don't even pay the national average, nor come close to it.

As the economy evolves, so must our society. This service-based economy is the consequence of the trickle-down system you wanted. What kind of jobs do you expect will appear if everyone is in service of the wealthy, awaiting the magic of trickle-down?

 

[Incisor]

You're just stating cherry picked facts, yet again. Makes it look better when you can cherry pick facts over the last ten years rather than presenting facts over just the last year or two.

What stats are cherry-picked!? It doesn't seem like you understand what "cherry-picking" actually means. You can't identify a long-term trend based on two years...and furthermore, where is your source? I've scoured Google looking for the numbers of recent (2015-16) manufacturing start-ups placed within the historical context. You haven't provided that source, so it seems like you're talking out of your rear here, rather than just talking out of both sides of your mouth.

 

[Moderate Right]

There is nothing we can do about jobs being shipped overseas or becoming automated. That is the consequence of a global economy and technology. I don't understand from where this fascination with manufacturing jobs comes. Those jobs sucked. They were physically grating. They didn't pay that well; $20/hr is the average manufacturing wage today...that comes to $41,600 a year before taxes...the national median income is $53,000. So those jobs you want to bring back don't even pay the national average, nor come close to it.

As the economy evolves, so must our society. This service-based economy is the consequence of the trickle-down system you wanted. What kind of jobs do you expect will appear if everyone is in service of the wealthy, awaiting the magic of trickle-down?

Broken record. Broken record. Broken record. Broken record.

 

[Incisor]

That's a really odd response, considering that just 4 posts back you posted, "a startup is a startup is a startup".

Bwahahahaha! Hilarious. The cognitive dissonance is strong with this one....

 

[Critter7r]

You need to read the context of the exchanges but you would rather just cherry pick soundbites literally.

The context was that chart that showed large, small, and micro business lending, to which you replied, "a startup is a startup is a startup", and then proceeded to say how you were only speaking of *manufacturing* startups. Which would indicate that you're now saying that "a startup is a startup is a startup", except when it's not the specific type of startup that you're talking about.

Also, FYI, choosing the trend of only the last TWO years out of the larger trend of the past TEN years is you cherry picking facts, not the other way around.

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[Moderate Right]

What stats are cherry-picked!? It doesn't seem like you understand what "cherry-picking" actually means. You can't identify a long-term trend based on two years...and furthermore, where is your source? I've scoured Google looking for the numbers of recent (2015-16) manufacturing start-ups placed within the historical context. You haven't provided that source, so it seems like you're talking out of your rear here, rather than just talking out of both sides of your mouth.

Cherry picking is when you present "facts" over the last ten years to prove your case when we were talking about manufacturing being on the upswing over just the last couple of years.

 

[Moderate Right]

The context was that chart that showed large, small, and micro business lending, to which you replied, "a startup is a startup is a startup", and then proceeded to say how you were only speaking of *manufacturing* startups. Which would indicate that you're now saying that "a startup is a startup is a startup", except when it's not the specific type of startup that you're talking about.

Also, FYI, choosing the trend of only the last TWO years out of the larger trend of the past TEN years is you cherry picking facts, not the other way around.

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That's it. Twist the facts around when you really knew what I meant.

 

[Incisor]

Cherry picking is when you present "facts" over the last ten years to prove your case when we were talking about manufacturing being on the upswing over just the last couple of years.

No, the reverse is actually the case. The recent upswing (still waiting on that source, Tinkerbelle) in manufacturing jobs could be an outlier.

 

[Incisor]

You need to read the context of the exchanges but you would rather just cherry pick soundbites literally.

In other words, words don't mean what they mean.

 

[Incisor]

Broken record. Broken record. Broken record. Broken record.

Tinkerbelle, you're the one who refuses to accept reality. You live in a fantasy world, and Trump & the Conservatives exploit that fantasy for their own personal gain.

 

[Kushinator]

Right back at you slick.

As expected, you would prefer to sling mud rather than debate the discussions you've engaged in. I'm just pointing out the fact that you're doing really bad in this thread... and by really bad i mean abysmal.

 

[Moderate Right]

In other words, words don't mean what they mean.

They don't mean what they mean when they are twisted and taken out of context, something the left is quite gifted at.

 

[Incisor]

They don't mean what they mean when they are twisted and taken out of context, something the left is quite gifted at.

I haven't taken anything out of context. You're the one who wrote the words you wrote.

 

[Moderate Right]

Tinkerbelle, you're the one who refuses to accept reality. You live in a fantasy world, and Trump & the Conservatives exploit that fantasy for their own personal gain.

Trump won because even the Democrats in three blue states were getting tired of running up the white flag. That's the reality.

 

[Incisor]

Trump won because even the Democrats in three blue states were getting tired of running up the white flag. That's the reality.

Apart from rhetoric, how do you think Trump will "bring jobs back" to those states?

 

[Moderate Right]

As expected, you would prefer to sling mud rather than debate the discussions you've engaged in. I'm just pointing out the fact that you're doing really bad in this thread... and by really bad i mean abysmal.

Says the guy who would rather insult me than talk about the thread topic. Hypocrisy at it's finist, just what I expect from a liberal's liberal. Is it time to invite me down below again for a fight, where I beat the crap out of you before?