Trump Repeatedly Pressed Ukraine President to Investigate Biden's Son

[Acadia]

It's not that complicated:

The President of the United States of America should not be asking a foreign government to interfere in his election by launching an investigation of his main rival.

Or spy on his adversary's Presidential campaign.

 

[Praxas]

Or spy on his adversary's Presidential campaign.

Since Obama didn't do that, we have to assume you mean Trump spying on his adversary's.

 

[charliebrown]

To support twump is to embrace corruption, transnational mafias and crime.

There are no exceptions.

I felt the same exact way when Clinton was running for office. Let's see what angel runs against him this time around.

 

[Tanngrisnir]

I felt the same exact way when Clinton was running for office. Let's see what angel runs against him this time around.

Fun to see people compelled to pretend that when there's no rational comparison between the two and no credible evidence of financial corruption or criminality on the part of Clinton.

 

[W_Heisenberg]

We'll see, won't we?. Meanwhile, particularly in light of the fact that this ain't our first rodeo with breathless, non-stop, hair-on-fire-conjecture masquerading as journalism, I think I'll wait for the rest of the story.

Well, why is the WH blocking the whistleblower report?

The reason why there is so much speculation is because Trump keeps doing things which cause speculation.

 

[Acadia]

Well, why is the WH blocking the whistleblower report?

The reason why there is so much speculation is because Trump keeps doing things which cause speculation.

I'm not sure why and certainly it needs to be addressed. My guess is that it involves protecting an ongoing investigation and wanting to protect classified information/sources/targets etc. I don't assume the reason is to protect Trump...
IF Democrats get their hands on this information, it will leak. No doubt it will leak. Not that that's OK to withold the information, so again, we have to find out why.

Why I find preposterous is not so much the speculation, but the proclamations masquerading as fact, and calls for impeachment.

And now we have a report (via FOX) the Minister of Ukraine denying that Trump put pressure on PM Zelinsky. Again, Ukraine confirms no quid pro quo. The investigation never happened.

 

[Tanngrisnir]

I'm not sure why and certainly it needs to be addressed. My guess is that it involves protecting an ongoing investigation and wanting to protect classified information/sources/targets etc. I don't assume the reason is to protect Trump...
IF Democrats get their hands on this information, it will leak. No doubt it will leak. Not that that's OK to withold the information, so again, we have to find out why.

Why I find preposterous is not so much the speculation, but the proclamations masquerading as fact, and calls for impeachment.

And now we have a report (via FOX) the Minister of Ukraine denying that Trump put pressure on PM Zelinsky. Again, Ukraine confirms no quid pro quo. The investigation never happened.

All of which is utterly irrelevant to the fact that twump made the attempt to get a foreign power to intervene on his behalf in a US election for his personal gain. For at least the 2nd time.

 

[Acadia]

All of which is utterly irrelevant to the fact that twump made the attempt to get a foreign power to intervene on his behalf in a US election for his personal gain. For at least the 2nd time.

I just can't take you seriously when you write as if your fingers have speech impediment.:roll:

 

[Tanngrisnir]

I just can't take you seriously when you write as if your fingers have speech impediment.:roll:

I understand your need to rationalize when you can't face reality.

I'll try to use simpler English next time.

 

[joko104]

The Ukraine government has already conducted an investigation and found there was nothing. They looked at it, there was nothing there. The largest English language paper in Kiev, Russia has already stated that Rudy Giuliani's story is all a bogus story, the Washington Post and a lot of other outlets has stated Rudi Giuliani's conflation of Biden and Manafort is nothing other than a conspiracy theory and a bogus story. Ukraine has investigative journalists and they had their own investigation and found nothing shady or wrong.

That is false. Biden literally brags he used his position and that of President Obama to force Ukraine to fire the prosecutor investigating his son or the USA would withhold money. That is a confession by Biden to criminal conduct.

 

[charliebrown]

Fun to see people compelled to pretend that when there's no rational comparison between the two and no credible evidence of financial corruption or criminality on the part of Clinton.

The candidate investigated by everyone is safer to me than the candidate ignored by everyone.

Taking a meeting with a Russian lawyer to get dirt on a candidate is collusion, hiring a lawyer to talk with russian sources to get dirt on a candidate is nothing.

I am not as blind as some on this site. They are all crocks and you actually need to worry about the crocks who are above the law, not the ones who are tortured by the law.

 

[W_Heisenberg]

Or spy on his adversary's Presidential campaign.

Oh, you're still living under the delusion that the counter-intelligence investigation into Russia's interference in the 2016 election was not legitimate. What was the government supposed to do? Turn a blind eye? Just let Russia do whatever the heck it wanted? Not investigate the Trump folks who reached out to Russian agents? Obama wasn't running in 2016. Nor was the investigation ordered by Obama. The investigation organically generated, meaning that evidence was found which created reasonable suspicion in the minds of career investigators and counter-intelligence officers that it had to be investigated. Further, a Trump appointee continued the investigation, it was Rosenstein who appointed Mueller, not Obama.

We have a legal system. We have rules. We have laws. The problem isn't with Trump's political opponents. It's with Trump. Trump is the one that keeps breaking the rules. And you support the rule-breaking because you and other Trump supporters hate Democrats more than you love the Rule of Law.

 

[HAL9000]

That is false. Biden literally brags he used his position and that of President Obama to force Ukraine to fire the prosecutor investigating his son or the USA would withhold money. That is a confession by Biden to criminal conduct.

I guess the EU, and people in Shokin's own office who called him corrupt, and these protestors in the streets setting their heads on fire, calling for Shokin's resignation(Shokin is the mask on the left), just really, really wanted to protect Joe Biden's son.

 

[MTAtech]

We'll see, won't we?. Meanwhile, particularly in light of the fact that this ain't our first rodeo with breathless, non-stop, hair-on-fire-conjecture masquerading as journalism, I think I'll wait for the rest of the story.

The Washington Post reported that Trump sent Rudy Giuliani to the Ukraine by Trump to ask the Ukrainians to investigate Joe Biden. On the other hand, Rudy Giuliani said that he was sent to the Ukraine by Trump to ask the Ukrainians to investigate Joe Biden. Who are we to believe?

 

[MTAtech]

That is false. Biden literally brags he used his position and that of President Obama to force Ukraine to fire the prosecutor investigating his son or the USA would withhold money. That is a confession by Biden to criminal conduct.

Produce the quote. Biden never made such an admission. You are lying, as usual. But I understand your need to deflect this from Trump's illegal and impeachable behavior to Biden, who did nothing wrong.

 

[W_Heisenberg]

That is false. Biden literally brags he used his position and that of President Obama to force Ukraine to fire the prosecutor investigating his son or the USA would withhold money. That is a confession by Biden to criminal conduct.

No, there was a concerted effort on part of the Obama administration and U.S. allies, especially in Europe, to convince Ukraine to rid itself of corruption. You are taking Biden's discussion of this issue completely out of context:

Trump and Giuliani’s Quest for Fake Ukraine "Dirt” on Biden: An Explainer - Just Security

Produce the quote. Biden never made such an admission. You are lying, as usual.

This is true. There was no such admission. Rudy and other Trump lackeys are poisoning people's minds by introducing an assumption which hasn't been proven and asserting it as fact.

 

[Acadia]

Oh, you're still living under the delusion that the counter-intelligence investigation into Russia's interference in the 2016 election was not legitimate. What was the government supposed to do? Turn a blind eye? Just let Russia do whatever the heck it wanted? Not investigate the Trump folks who reached out to Russian agents? Obama wasn't running in 2016. Nor was the investigation ordered by Obama. The investigation organically generated, meaning that evidence was found which created reasonable suspicion in the minds of career investigators and counter-intelligence officers that it had to be investigated. Further, a Trump appointee continued the investigation, it was Rosenstein who appointed Mueller, not Obama.

We have a legal system. We have rules. We have laws. The problem isn't with Trump's political opponents. It's with Trump. Trump is the one that keeps breaking the rules. And you support the rule-breaking because you and other Trump supporters hate Democrats more than you love the Rule of Law.

Obama can do it, but Trump can't. Got it.

 

[Acadia]

The Washington Post reported that Trump sent Rudy Giuliani to the Ukraine by Trump to ask the Ukrainians to investigate Joe Biden. On the other hand, Rudy Giuliani said that he was sent to the Ukraine by Trump to ask the Ukrainians to investigate Joe Biden. Who are we to believe?

A President has the right to ask any country to investigate suspected collusion/corruption. Biden isn't immunized from investigation because he's vying to be a Presidential candidate.

 

[MTAtech]

No, there was a concerted effort on part of the Obama administration and U.S. allies, especially in Europe, to convince Ukraine to rid itself of corruption. You are taking Biden's discussion of this issue completely out of context:

Trump and Giuliani’s Quest for Fake Ukraine "Dirt” on Biden: An Explainer - Just Security



This is true. There was no such admission. Rudy and other Trump lackeys are poisoning people's minds by introducing an assumption which hasn't been proven and asserting it as fact.

Don't take the bait. joko104 is trying to deflect the discussion to Biden and away from the thread. That's what Trump and his cult do -- deflect, deflect, deflect. 'You say I committed wrongdoing? Look over there -- he did something wrong!"

 

[W_Heisenberg]

I'm not sure why and certainly it needs to be addressed. My guess is that it involves protecting an ongoing investigation and wanting to protect classified information/sources/targets etc. I don't assume the reason is to protect Trump...
IF Democrats get their hands on this information, it will leak. No doubt it will leak. Not that that's OK to withold the information, so again, we have to find out why.

Why I find preposterous is not so much the speculation, but the proclamations masquerading as fact, and calls for impeachment.

I think it's easy to become careless when news like this breaks, but at the same time, I think it is entirely appropriate to say or write something like, "If this is true, he should be impeached."

And now we have a report (via FOX) the Minister of Ukraine denying that Trump put pressure on PM Zelinsky. Again, Ukraine confirms no quid pro quo. The investigation never happened.

Ukrainian Foreign Minister Vadym Prystaiko's response was very vague. Prystaiko didn't go into details. It's not very helpful to Trump's side of the argument.

 

[vesper]

We'll see, won't we?. Meanwhile, particularly in light of the fact that this ain't our first rodeo with breathless, non-stop, hair-on-fire-conjecture masquerading as journalism, I think I'll wait for the rest of the story.

The lefties on the forum will not recognize the latest article from John Solomon on this subject even though he has been 100% accurate in his investigative reporting of all things Russian collusion delusion. But it is rather telling.

Ukraine’s government under recently departed President Petro Poroshenko and, now, Zelensky had been trying since summer 2018 to hand over evidence about the conduct of Americans they believe might be involved in violations of U.S. law during the Obama years.
The Ukrainians say their efforts to get their allegations/evidence to U.S. authorities were thwarted first by the U.S. embassy in Kiev, which failed to issue timely visas allowing them to visit America. The Ukrainian officials were denied their visas to enter the US in 2018.

Missing piece to the Ukraine puzzle: State Department's overture to Rudy Giuliani | TheHill

Our corrupt ambassador dancing to the tune the Obama administration was playing was part of a coverup of how funds given to Ukraine for fighting corruption were misspent.

US Embassy pressed Ukraine to drop probe of George Soros group during 2016 election | TheHill

It turns out that though Ukraine certainly has a corruption problem it appears that those representing the U.S. and a billionaire activist by the name of George Soros were part of the corruption.

It's rather hard to swallow that Biden's son who ran a hedge fund with then John Kerry's son ends up president on the board of a Ukraine gas company just months after he was booted from the navy for his cocaine use with no past experience in the gas business and was being paid a million a year. Some would look at that as a fairytale.

There's so much to this story that involves corruption in our own government that occurred under Obama that needs to be aired.
Our corrupt Ambassador Yovanovich put in place by the Obama administration was fired by the Trump administration in May 2019 when all of the Ukrainian collusion with the DNC came to light.

 

[MTAtech]

Obama can do it, but Trump can't. Got it.

A President has the right to ask any country to investigate suspected collusion/corruption. Biden isn't immunized from investigation because he's vying to be a Presidential candidate.

I will answer these together because you are conflating two separate matters.

Obama, through Biden, who was a legitimate emissary of the United States, to work with other allies to force the corrupt prosecutor in the Ukraine out of office. This was hailed as an achievement by everyone concerned. The purpose was to combat corruption, which is America's national interest.

You falsely equate that to Trump, sending his personal lawyer, who has no legal standing to speak for the United States, to pressure the Ukraine to aid and assist in Trumping up charges against Biden, for the purpose of helping Trump's re-election.

Those are not the same thing and that should be obvious. But if you can't get it, I spell it out.

Trump, through Giuliani, is soliciting a foreign leader to assist him in his re-election. If this sounds familiar, it is.

Giuliani is not a legitimate emissary of the United States and can't bind the U.S. Anything he spoke about was in the shadows, the way the mob works. 'It sure would be a shame if the U.S. held up your military aide because your country. Maybe you should investigate Mr. Biden?'

There is no hint, except from right-wing conspiracy sites, that Joe Biden did anything unethical. He was acting on the interests of the United States in the open, not in the shadows.

 

[Acadia]

I think it's easy to become careless when news like this breaks, but at the same time, I think it is entirely appropriate to say or write something like, "If this is true, he should be impeached."



Ukrainian Foreign Minister Vadym Prystaiko's response was very vague. Prystaiko didn't go into details. It's not very helpful to Trump's side of the argument.

I'd say that Ukraine's report that Trump did not do what's been alleged is pretty much definitive. Other than that what's the fuss about?

 

[Acadia]

I will answer these together because you are conflating two separate matters.

Obama, through Biden, who was a legitimate emissary of the United States, to work with other allies to force the corrupt prosecutor in the Ukraine out of office. This was hailed as an achievement by everyone concerned. The purpose was to combat corruption, which is America's national interest.

You falsely equate that to Trump, sending his personal lawyer, who has no legal standing to speak for the United States, to pressure the Ukraine to aid and assist in Trumping up charges against Biden, for the purpose of helping Trump's re-election.

Those are not the same thing and that should be obvious. But if you can't get it, I spell it out.

Trump, through Giuliani, is soliciting a foreign leader to assist him in his re-election. If this sounds familiar, it is.

Giuliani is not a legitimate emissary of the United States and can't bind the U.S. Anything he spoke about was in the shadows, the way the mob works. 'It sure would be a shame if the U.S. held up your military aide because your country. Maybe you should investigate Mr. Biden?'

There is no hint, except from right-wing conspiracy sites, that Joe Biden did anything unethical. He was acting on the interests of the United States in the open, not in the shadows.

Ah, moral and virtuous extortion. Well then never mind.

 

[W_Heisenberg]

Obama can do it, but Trump can't. Got it.

I have two questions for you:

1. Do you think it's okay for foreign governments to interfere in U.S. elections?

2. Do you think it's okay for a U.S. President to ask a foreign government to interfere in U.S. elections for his benefit?